5 ms·

It's an unpopular sentiment, but room for faculty like this can in my opinion be made pretty easily by firing a lot of administrators. In my department alone th

It's an unpopular sentiment, but room for faculty like this can in my opinion be made pretty easily by firing a lot of administrators. In my department alone there are thirty staff whose responsibilities can be grouped under "corporate communications/contracts/fundraising". Each are paid six figures. If there was some tallying up of their money spent on salary alone vs. the amount of donations or research gifts they were responsible for, they would be far in the red. Yet for some reason, they have been allowed to persist for years. Back-of-the-envelope calculations say that we could get about $5,000,000 by doing a little belt tightening in our department alone (and they would not be missed). Why do we need so many provosts, deans, and vice presidents? They don't bring in research money (professors do, writing grant proposals) and they don't bring in alumni donations (nobody knows what does that). In the scheme of things the larger problem is reduced state and federal spending on higher education but in the short term it seems that the logical action is in front of us, but we would instead prefer to milk the little people until they die.

pacala 12y ago
The signs of the post information revolution world. Most work is automated, even the work of automators. There are simply no more good honest jobs. The competition for honest jobs is so fierce, the market has driven the price of these jobs into the ground. But the automated system keeps spinning! There is wealth to spread around. There is a make believe economy of paper pushers and loud talkers, who promote each other into cushy positions. Nobody dares to speak out. We're all the emperor, and we're all naked. Welcome to the brave new world.
- auxym 12y ago
  Except administration is what should be mostly automated. Or at least, with computers, it should take far less people than when secretaries were banging on typewriters and financialists and accountants were sliding slide rules. I can't see research and teaching become automated.
  - TeMPOraL 12y ago
    It's funny that it's the "good honest" jobs that get automated, and people are pushed toward unproductive wasting of resources. I wonder if ten years from now, more than half of the working-age people will be employed either in administration or advertising...
    - sdenton4 12y ago
      cf David Graeber's 'Bullshit Jobs' essay: http://strikemag.org/bullshit-jobs/ http://strikemag.org/bullshit-jobs/
Shivetya 12y ago
I will go a different, likely even more unpopular direction. The article stated the problem clearly, there are too many graduating with the proper credentials who want these jobs. Resorting to union representation is the sign of a system where oversupply being met with stubborn resistance to that fact. This is not to say that schools are not middle or top heavy. Education as a whole has become far to expensive for the value of the education provided. This is because of the simple fact money is loaned nearly without question to what studies the students want or receive. The real fix is reigning in the loans. Set costs either at the class or degree level and have colleges comply with it to have students eligible to receive the federal loans to attend that school. The government already restricts cost in the payouts for medical treatments and such, there is little reason it cannot do this in the realm of education if its the one providing the funds. Just like how government money brings along rules with how students are treated so can it do with how degrees if not courses are valued. Surely many colleges will step up to the plate to offer acceptable cost degrees. There is too much money on the table for them to ignore it. Still as he points out, there is oversupply because colleges are not required to tell students that while there may be jobs they don't pay what students expect nor pay what they once did. Firing others to raise that pay is not the solution, the solution is guiding students into good careers adn reigning in the costs of obtaining the degrees necessary
- stevesearer 12y ago
  Are you saying that the government should put a cap on tuition costs? So instead of a student spending $40k on an English degree, that degree might be capped at $20k or something to that effect?
  - TheOtherHobbes 12y ago
    Ideally the government should scrap all private tuition costs. That's how it works in most of Europe, and there doesn't seem to be a problem with the quality of learning or the facilities. That's how it used to work in the UK, and the main result was a strong middle class with plenty of disposable income. But... not everyone likes the idea of a strong middle class with plenty of disposable income. So now we have financial-rape loans and a weakened economy - a combination guaranteed to create huge default/delinquency issues over the next decade or two.
wfo 12y ago
I would be shocked to find anyone other than an administrator who disagrees with the notion that there is far too much administrative bloat in almost every university. But administrators are the ones with essentially all the power in the university governance structure and they certainly won't fire themselves.
- jerf 12y ago
  No, they absolutely won't. Look for Universities not to fix themselves, but to be largely side-stepped by alternative education techniques, until such time as the Universities are simply unable to ignore the fact that they are no longer the only source of "higher education". It'll probably be a twenty-year process, but as long as the Universities prefer to withdraw on their several hundred years of respect until that account is absolutely drained rather than become cheaper or better for the masses, no other outcome is possible. And at the moment I see no reason to believe the Universities will budge until they've run those accounts absolutely dry. The administrators will happily ride this ride into the ground... what else is in it for them? (Look for ever more desperate appeals to the aforementioned multi-century "respect" account as they go down. Personally I'm more interested in the first derivative and it is clearly negative. Spend, spend, spend, it's all they seem to know how to do, for every account they can get their hands on.)
  - Zigurd 12y ago
    True in a vacuum, but middle-tier US universities have a large and growing customer base in the kids of wealthy foreigners who can't get into their local elite institutions. They'll be able to defy gravity, in the form of MOOCs, longer than most people think. The side-stepping will take place, but in a parallel market.
pakled_engineer 12y ago
My fave nonsense title at my old university is "Provost and Associate Vice-President Strategic Relations Management" who is paid $300k/year with full housing benefits and guaranteed 5 year term.
- tsotha 12y ago
  It's a patronage job. Most of them are.
pmiller2 12y ago
> firing a lot of administrators As a data point, the university I went to grad school at has an administrator:faculty ratio of 1:1. This is not unusual.
- jldugger 12y ago
  How do you count that? Just people who manage faculty? Or do you count HR staff, grounds keepers, admissions clerks, and such in that count?
enraged_camel 12y ago
It's definitely very bizarre. I used to work for a software company as a technical consultant, and one of my coworkers got poached by a prestigious private university in the area. They gave him a fancy job title and doubled his salary. We were talking the other day and he confided in me that the job is the easiest in the world and he doesn't do much. I admit that part of me envies him. But I don't think I could do it in a position like that. Not only would I be terribly bored, I would also feel guilty for raking in so much money for so little work.
x0x0 12y ago
You'll find this data interesting: a graph of the growth of management vs faculty at the UC over time [1]. Apparently UC senior administrators now well outnumber faculty! Which is pretty fucking unbelievable. Money quote: For another comparison, the latest total number in this management category (SMG + MSP) is 9,457 FTE (full time equivalent employees) while the number of Regular Teaching Faculty is 8,657 FTE. [1] http://reclaimuc.blogspot.com/2013/01/uc-administration-continues-to-grow.html http://reclaimuc.blogspot.com/2013/01/uc-administration-cont...
fiatmoney 12y ago
"Why do we need so many provosts, deans, and vice presidents?" For one thing, compliance with extensive regulatory & reporting mandates. Universities aren't really about "education" primarily. They're a bundle of a semi-autonomous community, grant-funded research labs, landlords, police departments, public health services, etc., with "running classes" as a small part of their overall portfolio. It's not surprising that when they try to do so much they need a lot of people to administer the effort.
nharada 12y ago
> don't bring in alumni donations (nobody knows what does that) Undergrads in call centers

pacala 12y ago

The signs of the post information revolution world. Most work is automated, even the work of automators. There are simply no more good honest jobs. The competition for honest jobs is so fierce, the market has driven the price of these jobs into the ground. But the automated system keeps spinning! There is wealth to spread around. There is a make believe economy of paper pushers and loud talkers, who promote each other into cushy positions. Nobody dares to speak out. We're all the emperor, and we're all naked. Welcome to the brave new world.

auxym 12y ago
Except administration is what should be mostly automated. Or at least, with computers, it should take far less people than when secretaries were banging on typewriters and financialists and accountants were sliding slide rules. I can't see research and teaching become automated.
- TeMPOraL 12y ago
  It's funny that it's the "good honest" jobs that get automated, and people are pushed toward unproductive wasting of resources. I wonder if ten years from now, more than half of the working-age people will be employed either in administration or advertising...
  - sdenton4 12y ago
    cf David Graeber's 'Bullshit Jobs' essay: http://strikemag.org/bullshit-jobs/ http://strikemag.org/bullshit-jobs/

Shivetya 12y ago

I will go a different, likely even more unpopular direction. The article stated the problem clearly, there are too many graduating with the proper credentials who want these jobs. Resorting to union representation is the sign of a system where oversupply being met with stubborn resistance to that fact. This is not to say that schools are not middle or top heavy. Education as a whole has become far to expensive for the value of the education provided. This is because of the simple fact money is loaned nearly without question to what studies the students want or receive. The real fix is reigning in the loans. Set costs either at the class or degree level and have colleges comply with it to have students eligible to receive the federal loans to attend that school. The government already restricts cost in the payouts for medical treatments and such, there is little reason it cannot do this in the realm of education if its the one providing the funds. Just like how government money brings along rules with how students are treated so can it do with how degrees if not courses are valued. Surely many colleges will step up to the plate to offer acceptable cost degrees. There is too much money on the table for them to ignore it. Still as he points out, there is oversupply because colleges are not required to tell students that while there may be jobs they don't pay what students expect nor pay what they once did. Firing others to raise that pay is not the solution, the solution is guiding students into good careers adn reigning in the costs of obtaining the degrees necessary

stevesearer 12y ago
Are you saying that the government should put a cap on tuition costs? So instead of a student spending $40k on an English degree, that degree might be capped at $20k or something to that effect?
- TheOtherHobbes 12y ago
  Ideally the government should scrap all private tuition costs. That's how it works in most of Europe, and there doesn't seem to be a problem with the quality of learning or the facilities. That's how it used to work in the UK, and the main result was a strong middle class with plenty of disposable income. But... not everyone likes the idea of a strong middle class with plenty of disposable income. So now we have financial-rape loans and a weakened economy - a combination guaranteed to create huge default/delinquency issues over the next decade or two.

wfo 12y ago

I would be shocked to find anyone other than an administrator who disagrees with the notion that there is far too much administrative bloat in almost every university. But administrators are the ones with essentially all the power in the university governance structure and they certainly won't fire themselves.

jerf 12y ago
No, they absolutely won't. Look for Universities not to fix themselves, but to be largely side-stepped by alternative education techniques, until such time as the Universities are simply unable to ignore the fact that they are no longer the only source of "higher education". It'll probably be a twenty-year process, but as long as the Universities prefer to withdraw on their several hundred years of respect until that account is absolutely drained rather than become cheaper or better for the masses, no other outcome is possible. And at the moment I see no reason to believe the Universities will budge until they've run those accounts absolutely dry. The administrators will happily ride this ride into the ground... what else is in it for them? (Look for ever more desperate appeals to the aforementioned multi-century "respect" account as they go down. Personally I'm more interested in the first derivative and it is clearly negative. Spend, spend, spend, it's all they seem to know how to do, for every account they can get their hands on.)
- Zigurd 12y ago
  True in a vacuum, but middle-tier US universities have a large and growing customer base in the kids of wealthy foreigners who can't get into their local elite institutions. They'll be able to defy gravity, in the form of MOOCs, longer than most people think. The side-stepping will take place, but in a parallel market.

pakled_engineer 12y ago

My fave nonsense title at my old university is "Provost and Associate Vice-President Strategic Relations Management" who is paid $300k/year with full housing benefits and guaranteed 5 year term.

tsotha 12y ago
It's a patronage job. Most of them are.

pmiller2 12y ago

> firing a lot of administrators As a data point, the university I went to grad school at has an administrator:faculty ratio of 1:1. This is not unusual.

jldugger 12y ago
How do you count that? Just people who manage faculty? Or do you count HR staff, grounds keepers, admissions clerks, and such in that count?

enraged_camel 12y ago

It's definitely very bizarre. I used to work for a software company as a technical consultant, and one of my coworkers got poached by a prestigious private university in the area. They gave him a fancy job title and doubled his salary. We were talking the other day and he confided in me that the job is the easiest in the world and he doesn't do much. I admit that part of me envies him. But I don't think I could do it in a position like that. Not only would I be terribly bored, I would also feel guilty for raking in so much money for so little work.

x0x0 12y ago

You'll find this data interesting: a graph of the growth of management vs faculty at the UC over time [1]. Apparently UC senior administrators now well outnumber faculty! Which is pretty fucking unbelievable. Money quote: For another comparison, the latest total number in this management category (SMG + MSP) is 9,457 FTE (full time equivalent employees) while the number of Regular Teaching Faculty is 8,657 FTE. [1] http://reclaimuc.blogspot.com/2013/01/uc-administration-continues-to-grow.html http://reclaimuc.blogspot.com/2013/01/uc-administration-cont...

fiatmoney 12y ago

"Why do we need so many provosts, deans, and vice presidents?" For one thing, compliance with extensive regulatory & reporting mandates. Universities aren't really about "education" primarily. They're a bundle of a semi-autonomous community, grant-funded research labs, landlords, police departments, public health services, etc., with "running classes" as a small part of their overall portfolio. It's not surprising that when they try to do so much they need a lot of people to administer the effort.

nharada 12y ago

> don't bring in alumni donations (nobody knows what does that) Undergrads in call centers