3 ms·

That seems like an exceedingly childish exchange.

krick 12y ago
It's common way to see things now, although I guess it's pretty normal. I always viewed distro as something people do primarily for themselves, if you want something from particular distro — you join the community. If your wishes are drastically different from what this community accepts — you go to another community or build your own. I'm not saying people should be rude and talk nonsense, but it seems that too many people tend to forget: Debian mailing list (or lkml, or what else people complain about) is not Starbucks or McDonalds where people are paid to smile and do what's requested. That's been said, I find question about TSYNC completely appropriate, and its support to be expected, but answer about "Google spyware" was funny and enjoyable anyway. So, yeah, maybe childish, but not "exceedingly childish".
stingraycharles 12y ago
I cannot believe these are the actual people responsible for Debian. Is this unprofessional attitude common in the Debian community?
- eropple 12y ago
  No. More than it used to be, but it's not comon.
- xai3luGi 12y ago
  Could you explain what you mean by "unprofessional" here? Personally Google's business model seems to be the unprofessional thing in this conversation.
  - jfoster 12y ago
    If Debian were a business and the original poster were one of their customers, how would the OP be feeling about that exchange? It's unprofessional by definition because it is so clear that the person responding does not consider this their profession.
    - adrusi 12y ago
      But it's not a business and that person wasn't a customer. Debian is a community, bound partially by common technical ideas about packaging, stability and security, and partially by philosophical ideas about Free software. Their goal is not to satisfy everyone who comes to their mailing list, that would be insanity.
      - jfoster 12y ago
        Sure, but most people would consider the original poster's request as quite reasonable. Instead of considering it in a balanced way and producing a polite & considered response, the response was idealistic rhetoric. For better or worse, I think that does qualify the attitude of response as "unprofessional", as stingraycharles pointed out.
        chappi42 12y ago
        Google is the unprofessional one. Threaten to not support Jessie, hey? What an arrogant self-referred world Google lives in?
        davidw 12y ago
        I think Google is more or less "in the wrong" too, but a less snippy, snarky response would probably do more to convince people of that. "You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar", as they say.
        chappi42 12y ago
        Probably yes. As a non-native english speaker it is quite difficult to find an enough but not too much snippy/snarky response (had e.g. to lookup these words)).
        stingraycharles 12y ago
        What are you implying, that when English is not your native tongue, it is easier to be snarky? English is a second language to me, and I cannot imagine this being true.
- ars 12y ago
  That seemed unprofessional to me too. But the problem for debian is that Jessie is frozen, they can't make any changes now. They don't want an exception for this.
honestthrowaway 12y ago
To be fair Google's whole business model is based on spying on people to gather data for ad placement. If we're being entirely honest a browser which sends every url you visit to Google by default is spyware.
- yuhong 12y ago
  It is very off topic too.
  - honestthrowaway 12y ago
    Not really. You have to see the supreme irony in a company which is ditching suppport for very recent kernels in the name of security when the app in question is designed primarily to spy on your browsing habits (and ensure that you favour their search and mail products, which exist purely to make money from ads based on their spying).
- danieldk 12y ago
  The questioner is using Chrome and already made his mind up that it is an acceptable trade-off. He is asking for a simple yes or no, but instead gets useless Chrome bashing. Of course, no one can expect free support. But if you want to have/keep users as well, this is perhaps not the way to treat them ;). Even if you wanted to sneak in the Chrome bashing, it would be better to answer the question first.
- plantain 12y ago
  >If we're being entirely honest a browser which sends every url you visit to Google by default is spyware. [citation needed] Blatantly false.
  - kuschku 12y ago
    Definition of the Ombibar: While typing, the omnibar directly searches on Google and in your web history for the text you typed, may it be a search term, an URL, or content of a page you had visited in the past.
yrro 12y ago
maks has always been a complete tosser.

krick 12y ago

It's common way to see things now, although I guess it's pretty normal. I always viewed distro as something people do primarily for themselves, if you want something from particular distro — you join the community. If your wishes are drastically different from what this community accepts — you go to another community or build your own. I'm not saying people should be rude and talk nonsense, but it seems that too many people tend to forget: Debian mailing list (or lkml, or what else people complain about) is not Starbucks or McDonalds where people are paid to smile and do what's requested. That's been said, I find question about TSYNC completely appropriate, and its support to be expected, but answer about "Google spyware" was funny and enjoyable anyway. So, yeah, maybe childish, but not "exceedingly childish".

stingraycharles 12y ago

I cannot believe these are the actual people responsible for Debian. Is this unprofessional attitude common in the Debian community?

eropple 12y ago
No. More than it used to be, but it's not comon.
xai3luGi 12y ago
Could you explain what you mean by "unprofessional" here? Personally Google's business model seems to be the unprofessional thing in this conversation.
- jfoster 12y ago
  If Debian were a business and the original poster were one of their customers, how would the OP be feeling about that exchange? It's unprofessional by definition because it is so clear that the person responding does not consider this their profession.
  - adrusi 12y ago
    But it's not a business and that person wasn't a customer. Debian is a community, bound partially by common technical ideas about packaging, stability and security, and partially by philosophical ideas about Free software. Their goal is not to satisfy everyone who comes to their mailing list, that would be insanity.
    - jfoster 12y ago
      Sure, but most people would consider the original poster's request as quite reasonable. Instead of considering it in a balanced way and producing a polite & considered response, the response was idealistic rhetoric. For better or worse, I think that does qualify the attitude of response as "unprofessional", as stingraycharles pointed out.
      - chappi42 12y ago
        Google is the unprofessional one. Threaten to not support Jessie, hey? What an arrogant self-referred world Google lives in?
        davidw 12y ago
        I think Google is more or less "in the wrong" too, but a less snippy, snarky response would probably do more to convince people of that. "You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar", as they say.
        chappi42 12y ago
        Probably yes. As a non-native english speaker it is quite difficult to find an enough but not too much snippy/snarky response (had e.g. to lookup these words)).
        stingraycharles 12y ago
        What are you implying, that when English is not your native tongue, it is easier to be snarky? English is a second language to me, and I cannot imagine this being true.
ars 12y ago
That seemed unprofessional to me too. But the problem for debian is that Jessie is frozen, they can't make any changes now. They don't want an exception for this.

honestthrowaway 12y ago

To be fair Google's whole business model is based on spying on people to gather data for ad placement. If we're being entirely honest a browser which sends every url you visit to Google by default is spyware.

yuhong 12y ago
It is very off topic too.
- honestthrowaway 12y ago
  Not really. You have to see the supreme irony in a company which is ditching suppport for very recent kernels in the name of security when the app in question is designed primarily to spy on your browsing habits (and ensure that you favour their search and mail products, which exist purely to make money from ads based on their spying).
danieldk 12y ago
The questioner is using Chrome and already made his mind up that it is an acceptable trade-off. He is asking for a simple yes or no, but instead gets useless Chrome bashing. Of course, no one can expect free support. But if you want to have/keep users as well, this is perhaps not the way to treat them ;). Even if you wanted to sneak in the Chrome bashing, it would be better to answer the question first.
plantain 12y ago
>If we're being entirely honest a browser which sends every url you visit to Google by default is spyware. [citation needed] Blatantly false.
- kuschku 12y ago
  Definition of the Ombibar: While typing, the omnibar directly searches on Google and in your web history for the text you typed, may it be a search term, an URL, or content of a page you had visited in the past.

yrro 12y ago

maks has always been a complete tosser.