6 ms·

London's forgotten pneumatic messaging system

67 points by andyjohnson0 12y ago

collyw 12y ago
I am always amazed at how everything seems to be a reiteration of something before. I thought that telephones were the first long distance communication method. And then I saw a documentary about semaphore towers, and realized that long distance communication has been going on far longer than I realized.
- treerock 12y ago
  A very long time. Talking drums[1] seem to have been around forever. There was a good chapter on this in James Gleick's The Information[2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drums_in_communication https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drums_in_communication [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Information:_A_History,_a_Theory,_a_Flood https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Information:_A_History,_a_...
- rayiner 12y ago
  I think people generally underestimate how much technology existed in the late 19th and early 20th century. The first transatlantic telegraph cable was laid in 1858. Hydroelectric power plants date to the 1880's. The commuter train I used to take from Westchester to NYC was electrified in 1907.
  - jacquesm 12y ago
    It goes a bit further back than the late 19th century: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_telegraph http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_telegraph 4th Century BC!
    - darkmighty 12y ago
      This seems more close to optical communication (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse-width_modulation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse-width_modulation), the water is just used as a chronometer.
      - jacquesm 12y ago
        All serial communication depends on timing.
  - Symbiote 12y ago
    Anyone in London should look at the Science Museum's current exhibition, "Information Age", which includes a good exhibit on undersea cables. (It's free.) I have to return — I spent most of the time I had looking round the old computers, before I realised that was the permanent exhibition and "Information Age" was in the next room. Here's [2] one of the first electric locomotives from the London Underground, from 1890, which is at the London Transport Muesum (not free). What surprised me more than the electric trains were the steam trains used on the first underground railways. The air in the tunnels must have been awful! [1] http://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/visitmuseum/Plan_your_visit/exhibitions/information_age.aspx http://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/visitmuseum/Plan_your_visit/... [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ltmd-c%26slr-number13-01.jpg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ltmd-c%26slr-number13-01.j...
- bane 12y ago
  Signal fires have been used for centuries and transmit information ("we're being invaded!") at the speed of light.
NietTim 12y ago
Does anybody have a mirror? The page doesn't load for me.
- wongarsu 12y ago
  Here you go: http://web.archive.org/web/20150304165118/http://lapsedhistorian.com/get-blower-londons-forgotten-pneumatic-messaging-tubes/ http://web.archive.org/web/20150304165118/http://lapsedhisto...
fennecfoxen 12y ago
New York also used pneumatic tubes for the postal service, but they were replaced with mail-trucks. My understanding is that the empty tubes themselves have been repurposed to carry fiber-optics cables for trading firms and the like. Heck, the first New York City subway (the Beach Pneumatic Railway) (a) was pneumatic (b) was an abuse of a permit to build a pneumatic tube under Broadway. There were also open-air pneumatic railways ("atmospheric railways") in a few places, including in the UK -- they used a piston in a small tube to drive the car from underneath, sort of like a cable car ... but they didn't have good rubber, had to rely on leather seals that were plagued with inflexibility and rat problems. Then they invented the electrical multiple-unit train... bo-ring. :b
- arprocter 12y ago
  Roosevelt Island uses pneumatic tubes to collect trash because the streets are too narrow for garbage trucks [0] [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pneumatic_refuse_conveying_system http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pneumatic_refuse_conveying_syst...
- e12e 12y ago
  > they used a piston in a small tube to drive the car from underneath, sort of like a cable car I had some trouble understanding what you meant here... wikipedia to the resuce: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wagon-directeur-chemin-atmospherique.jpg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wagon-directeur-chemin-atm...
nthcolumn 12y ago
I used one of these in my first job (pdp11 sysadmin). I'd stick the report in a canister, place it in the tube and it would whoosh away across the factory. They are still used today by Tesco to take cash from the tills up to accounts.
wahsd 12y ago
Is this were we make Ted Stevens jokes?
maaku 12y ago
I remember the Costco on in Santa Clara near the Alameda had pneumatic tubes back in the 80's and 90's when I was growing up. Looking back I think they were used for exchanging cash between registers, and submitting requests for expensive items held in the back room. But as a kid, those tubes were a bit of magic, even when I knew exactly how they worked. I used to think how great it would be to have one big enough for people to ride in -- you could go to work in near record time on a roller-coaster ride! I think technology of that era had a certain appeal because it operated at human-scale limits. We could see the inner workings and comprehend the ingenuity involved. Sadly as technology has advanced we no longer have that basic, primal connection to the operation of the state of the art :( I wonder if kids are able to get as excited about the inner workings of a fiber optic cable as I was staring at those pneumatic tubes as a child...
- 0172 12y ago
  Costco still uses it here in Canada or at least the ones I've been to.
markbnj 12y ago
As a boy in the 60's and 70's it was still pretty common to see these systems in department stores for handling receipts. I always found them fascinating. The cashier would open the slide and you'd hear the suction, then a solid thunk as the container was sucked into the line. A few minutes later and you'd actually hear the returning container whoosh down the line before it thudded into the padded basket. The development of these systems strikes me as being similar to the development of canals, in that they solved a significant physical problem for a short time until much better technology (railroads, telephones) emerged. Interesting article and thanks for posting it.
- aembleton 12y ago
  I remember these still being used in a supermarket in the early 90s here in the UK.
  - mapgrep 12y ago
    I still remember my mom using them at a "drive thru" at our bank in the early 1980s. Instead of a window you'd pull up to a tube station. Slips of papers would go in and come out. I think she even did withdrawals this way. (No idea how this was secure, given how far the observation window was from the farthest tube stations. Maybe there were cameras.)
    - VLM 12y ago
      Maybe its a state law thing, but we have these tubes today at local bank drive thru and local walgreens pharmacy. They have cameras now of course. I've always been interested in building a tube into my house for the pure heck of it, because I can. Main problem is I believe PVC pressure rating for compressed air is 0 psi, so there "seem" to be enhanced modern materials that make the job easy, but things aren't as simple as they appear. Also its harder than you'd think to go bidirectional. Unidirectional with simple one way flaps and a timer hooked up to a valve (about a 5 minute arduino project) is pretty simple. Bidirectional is not so simple.
- masklinn 12y ago
gumby 12y ago
I sent a letter to myself (from my home to the office) using the Paris pleumatique when I realized that it would probably not survive for long. It stuck around for another couple of years after that, but I was glad I did it. It was of course an anachronistic relic by the 1980s but using it made me feel like a time traveler.
csentropy 12y ago
For an interesting read on how telegraph and pneumatic technologies evolved : search for the book "The victorian internet".
kurthr 12y ago
Pneumatic tubes are still regularly used in large hospitals where rapid delivery of medical samples is required. Multiple companies provide them. http://www.aerocomusa.com/ http://www.aerocomusa.com/ Frankly, it's a bit scary knowing what hazardous biologicals goe into the carriers... and how difficult it would be to clean if something went wrong.
- Animats 12y ago
  Cleaning up a spill in a pneumatic tube system isn't that hard: "This procedure consists of sending a carrier containing a clean-out kit from station to station until all affected segments of the system have been traversed. As this carrier travels through the tubing, the clean-out bottle dispenses the cleaning solution while the carrier rubbing bands act as swabs."[1] [1] http://www.swisslog.com/-/media/Swisslog/Documents/HCS/TransLogic_Pneumatic_Tube_System/Related_Information/PTS_400_Infection_Control_White_Paper.pdf http://www.swisslog.com/-/media/Swisslog/Documents/HCS/Trans...
crazygringo 12y ago
For years I've dreamed about if New York had a pneumatic tube system working. Forget about transmitting data/documents -- use it to replace small deliveries! For Chinese takeout or some tacos, for a book delivered from Barnes & Noble, for some lemons from the supermarket when you realize you've run out, for a bottle of shampoo from the corner pharmacy. Heck, try on different sizes of shirts and sneakers and jeans from different stores, and pack them back in the tube when they don't fit. Use it for mail too. Individual tubes that run straight into each apartment. The convenience would be incredible. And now that we have software to intelligently and automatically route all the canisters, I often wonder why you never see it proposed more often.
- devicenull 12y ago
  The last mile costs are significant even for running some wire to every house. Can you imagine what they'd be to run a multiple inch tube?

67 points by andyjohnson0 12y ago

I am always amazed at how everything seems to be a reiteration of something before. I thought that telephones were the first long distance communication method. And then I saw a documentary about semaphore towers, and realized that long distance communication has been going on far longer than I realized.

treerock 12y ago
A very long time. Talking drums[1] seem to have been around forever. There was a good chapter on this in James Gleick's The Information[2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drums_in_communication https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drums_in_communication [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Information:_A_History,_a_Theory,_a_Flood https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Information:_A_History,_a_...
rayiner 12y ago
I think people generally underestimate how much technology existed in the late 19th and early 20th century. The first transatlantic telegraph cable was laid in 1858. Hydroelectric power plants date to the 1880's. The commuter train I used to take from Westchester to NYC was electrified in 1907.
- jacquesm 12y ago
  It goes a bit further back than the late 19th century: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_telegraph http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_telegraph 4th Century BC!
  - darkmighty 12y ago
    This seems more close to optical communication (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse-width_modulation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse-width_modulation), the water is just used as a chronometer.
    - jacquesm 12y ago
      All serial communication depends on timing.
- Symbiote 12y ago
  Anyone in London should look at the Science Museum's current exhibition, "Information Age", which includes a good exhibit on undersea cables. (It's free.) I have to return — I spent most of the time I had looking round the old computers, before I realised that was the permanent exhibition and "Information Age" was in the next room. Here's [2] one of the first electric locomotives from the London Underground, from 1890, which is at the London Transport Muesum (not free). What surprised me more than the electric trains were the steam trains used on the first underground railways. The air in the tunnels must have been awful! [1] http://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/visitmuseum/Plan_your_visit/exhibitions/information_age.aspx http://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/visitmuseum/Plan_your_visit/... [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ltmd-c%26slr-number13-01.jpg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ltmd-c%26slr-number13-01.j...
bane 12y ago
Signal fires have been used for centuries and transmit information ("we're being invaded!") at the speed of light.

NietTim 12y ago

Does anybody have a mirror? The page doesn't load for me.

wongarsu 12y ago
Here you go: http://web.archive.org/web/20150304165118/http://lapsedhistorian.com/get-blower-londons-forgotten-pneumatic-messaging-tubes/ http://web.archive.org/web/20150304165118/http://lapsedhisto...

fennecfoxen 12y ago

New York also used pneumatic tubes for the postal service, but they were replaced with mail-trucks. My understanding is that the empty tubes themselves have been repurposed to carry fiber-optics cables for trading firms and the like. Heck, the first New York City subway (the Beach Pneumatic Railway) (a) was pneumatic (b) was an abuse of a permit to build a pneumatic tube under Broadway. There were also open-air pneumatic railways ("atmospheric railways") in a few places, including in the UK -- they used a piston in a small tube to drive the car from underneath, sort of like a cable car ... but they didn't have good rubber, had to rely on leather seals that were plagued with inflexibility and rat problems. Then they invented the electrical multiple-unit train... bo-ring. :b

arprocter 12y ago
Roosevelt Island uses pneumatic tubes to collect trash because the streets are too narrow for garbage trucks [0] [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pneumatic_refuse_conveying_system http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pneumatic_refuse_conveying_syst...
e12e 12y ago
> they used a piston in a small tube to drive the car from underneath, sort of like a cable car I had some trouble understanding what you meant here... wikipedia to the resuce: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wagon-directeur-chemin-atmospherique.jpg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wagon-directeur-chemin-atm...

nthcolumn 12y ago

I used one of these in my first job (pdp11 sysadmin). I'd stick the report in a canister, place it in the tube and it would whoosh away across the factory. They are still used today by Tesco to take cash from the tills up to accounts.

wahsd 12y ago

Is this were we make Ted Stevens jokes?

maaku 12y ago

I remember the Costco on in Santa Clara near the Alameda had pneumatic tubes back in the 80's and 90's when I was growing up. Looking back I think they were used for exchanging cash between registers, and submitting requests for expensive items held in the back room. But as a kid, those tubes were a bit of magic, even when I knew exactly how they worked. I used to think how great it would be to have one big enough for people to ride in -- you could go to work in near record time on a roller-coaster ride! I think technology of that era had a certain appeal because it operated at human-scale limits. We could see the inner workings and comprehend the ingenuity involved. Sadly as technology has advanced we no longer have that basic, primal connection to the operation of the state of the art :( I wonder if kids are able to get as excited about the inner workings of a fiber optic cable as I was staring at those pneumatic tubes as a child...

0172 12y ago
Costco still uses it here in Canada or at least the ones I've been to.

markbnj 12y ago

As a boy in the 60's and 70's it was still pretty common to see these systems in department stores for handling receipts. I always found them fascinating. The cashier would open the slide and you'd hear the suction, then a solid thunk as the container was sucked into the line. A few minutes later and you'd actually hear the returning container whoosh down the line before it thudded into the padded basket. The development of these systems strikes me as being similar to the development of canals, in that they solved a significant physical problem for a short time until much better technology (railroads, telephones) emerged. Interesting article and thanks for posting it.

aembleton 12y ago
I remember these still being used in a supermarket in the early 90s here in the UK.
- mapgrep 12y ago
  I still remember my mom using them at a "drive thru" at our bank in the early 1980s. Instead of a window you'd pull up to a tube station. Slips of papers would go in and come out. I think she even did withdrawals this way. (No idea how this was secure, given how far the observation window was from the farthest tube stations. Maybe there were cameras.)
  - VLM 12y ago
    Maybe its a state law thing, but we have these tubes today at local bank drive thru and local walgreens pharmacy. They have cameras now of course. I've always been interested in building a tube into my house for the pure heck of it, because I can. Main problem is I believe PVC pressure rating for compressed air is 0 psi, so there "seem" to be enhanced modern materials that make the job easy, but things aren't as simple as they appear. Also its harder than you'd think to go bidirectional. Unidirectional with simple one way flaps and a timer hooked up to a valve (about a 5 minute arduino project) is pretty simple. Bidirectional is not so simple.
masklinn 12y ago

gumby 12y ago

I sent a letter to myself (from my home to the office) using the Paris pleumatique when I realized that it would probably not survive for long. It stuck around for another couple of years after that, but I was glad I did it. It was of course an anachronistic relic by the 1980s but using it made me feel like a time traveler.

csentropy 12y ago

For an interesting read on how telegraph and pneumatic technologies evolved : search for the book "The victorian internet".

kurthr 12y ago

Pneumatic tubes are still regularly used in large hospitals where rapid delivery of medical samples is required. Multiple companies provide them. http://www.aerocomusa.com/ http://www.aerocomusa.com/ Frankly, it's a bit scary knowing what hazardous biologicals goe into the carriers... and how difficult it would be to clean if something went wrong.

Animats 12y ago
Cleaning up a spill in a pneumatic tube system isn't that hard: "This procedure consists of sending a carrier containing a clean-out kit from station to station until all affected segments of the system have been traversed. As this carrier travels through the tubing, the clean-out bottle dispenses the cleaning solution while the carrier rubbing bands act as swabs."[1] [1] http://www.swisslog.com/-/media/Swisslog/Documents/HCS/TransLogic_Pneumatic_Tube_System/Related_Information/PTS_400_Infection_Control_White_Paper.pdf http://www.swisslog.com/-/media/Swisslog/Documents/HCS/Trans...

crazygringo 12y ago

For years I've dreamed about if New York had a pneumatic tube system working. Forget about transmitting data/documents -- use it to replace small deliveries! For Chinese takeout or some tacos, for a book delivered from Barnes & Noble, for some lemons from the supermarket when you realize you've run out, for a bottle of shampoo from the corner pharmacy. Heck, try on different sizes of shirts and sneakers and jeans from different stores, and pack them back in the tube when they don't fit. Use it for mail too. Individual tubes that run straight into each apartment. The convenience would be incredible. And now that we have software to intelligently and automatically route all the canisters, I often wonder why you never see it proposed more often.

devicenull 12y ago
The last mile costs are significant even for running some wire to every house. Can you imagine what they'd be to run a multiple inch tube?