5 ms·

Yea I'm worried about that too. I was raised in France but live in the US, as an 8 year old I used to explore lot's of things. But I'm not actually sure I want

Yea I'm worried about that too. I was raised in France but live in the US, as an 8 year old I used to explore lot's of things. But I'm not actually sure I want to let my kids do the same, I remember doing a lot of stupid things too and I'm not sure any of this freedom taught me anything: - touching dog poop to enter a "ninja" club - entering many private properties - climbing dangerously high trees - crossing quadruple railroad tracks with TGVs passing on them. - putting my head next to a passing TGV (about 2 feet away), just to see how it feels and be scared - jumping off high ledges to see how far I can fall without hurting myself. - walking near ledges with a 2 story drop. - playing with explosive fireworks, big enough to blow up a couple of fingers. I could just buy these as a kid in France. This is just a small list, and I was honestly a very quiet, calm kid. I just had an active friend. And as I said, I don't remember this teaching me anything. Whereas I remember spending time programming (visual programming) at 8 years old, and that was awesome and taught me a lot.

delinka 12y ago
"...I'm not actually sure I want to let my kids do the same..." But you turned out OK, right? Why rob them of the experiences that shaped you into the wonderful adult human being you are today?
- __xtrimsky 12y ago
  because I don't believe it taught me anything. Even my memories aren't really happy memories, it's more like crazy memories. But as I am in the US now, I can't really even consider the same level of freedom, I would just end up in jail. I'll just try to give my kids as much freedom as I can. For my 2-year-old for example, when we are outside, I let her do anything as long as it's safe. Jumping into puddles, touching things covered in dirt, let her choose the streets she wants to walk on. At this age it's not really extreme yet :) BTW: I am a germaphobe. But as long as my own house is clean I'm ok with that. I just get my kid cleaned up as soon as she gets home. It is hard for me to watch her jump in puddles, but she is having so much fun :)
- DanBC 12y ago
  > But you turned out OK, Survivor bias. The kids who get killed playing on railway lines don't grow into adults to make a post on HN about how they used to play on railway lines.
  - Dylan16807 12y ago
    I don't think the death rate is anywhere near high enough for survivor bias to be a major factor.
mrgriscom 12y ago
It's easy to say in retrospect "those didn't teach me anything" but hard to imagine what you'd actually be like without those experiences. Ever seen this episode? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tapestry_(Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tapestry_(Star_Trek:_The_Next_G...
- __xtrimsky 12y ago
  No, haven't really watched Star Trek except one movie. But I'll take a look at this episode, thanks :)
TeMPOraL 12y ago
Sounds like infulential experiences, actually. I'm guessing you're not the kind of person that is afraid of everything. I probably wouldn't want my kid to do the railroad stunts, but I think I'll be totally fine with the rest. Especially fireworks is something I want my kid to play with. Rockets are cool.
- __xtrimsky 12y ago
  I live in NY State, fireworks are forbidden, stupid new york law makers :( There are a lot of cool fireworks, I just thought there was a few a bit too dangerous being sold in France. But most of the ones I bought were safe and fun.
Swizec 12y ago
> - jumping off high ledges to see how far I can fall without hurting myself. This is actually VERY IMPORTANT knowledge. Knowing how much your body can take and knowing how to fall in a way that increases how much your body can take could mean the difference between life and death in many situations. As the Grim Reaper said when asked about giving a sword to a kid who could cut themselves: "That will be an important lesson."
- __xtrimsky 12y ago
  You are probably right. I knew I shouldn't jump from high places, but this actually increased the height I thought I could jump from.
- omegaham 12y ago
  Yep. I remember growing up with one of those older playgrounds - there was a platform about 6 feet off the ground that had a rope climb on one side of it. The idea was to get a kid to climb up the wall with the rope. Six-year-old me was fascinated with jumping off of the thing. And yes, it hurt sometimes. I fell on my face, I fell on my ass, I took hard landings that jarred my bones. But I learned, and it got to the point where I was taking a running start before jumping off (Parents pulled the plug at that point). Kids should learn that sort of stuff. Ideally, you want to protect them from "kill / maim you with no warning" stuff like electrical transformers, the third rail on the subway, dangerous chemicals, etc. You want to inculcate a healthy fear of stuff that will cause lasting harm. And, well, everything else should be free game. My parents told me I was free to go wherever on the bike as long as I stayed away from the really busy roads and wore my helmet (again, kill / maim you with no warning). The funny thing, to me, is that many of the sports that kids play are far, far more dangerous than these childhood games. Football kills and cripples kids every single year, but it's organized, so it's okay!
  - Swizec 12y ago
    > Football kills and cripples kids every single year, but it's organized, so it's okay! Liability and blame. Parents are okay with letting their kids get injured if there is somebody to blame. Like the coach. Or some higher purpose "Oh they were training for a competition" But parents, and people in general, balk at personal responsibility.
Cthulhu_ 12y ago
Do you really need someone to point out what you learned? > - touching dog poop to enter a "ninja" club Dog poop is icky and kids will make other kids do anything, and they will do anything. > - entering many private properties A lot of private property is not very tightly secured. > - climbing dangerously high trees You can climb trees. Might save your life one day. > - crossing quadruple railroad tracks with TGVs passing on them. > - putting my head next to a passing TGV (about 2 feet away), just to see how it feels and be scared TGVs are fast and dangerous. Also said railroad tracks may not be adequately secured. etc. What would you have learned if you had stayed indoors? Nothing.
- __xtrimsky 12y ago
  The thing is, I new it was dangerous/icky before doing any of these things. I was just experiencing it instead of just knowing it. The only things I improved was my climbing skills. But I was doing a lot of climbing outside of this. My parents were letting me climb trees, and they did sign me up for acrobranch classes (real tree climbing, from bottom to top, not just the parks you explore that are man made), but I was safe, with a harness in these cases.
__xtrimsky 12y ago
Anyone out here had some fun with Klick & Play? http://media.moddb.com/images/engines/1/1/29/krnl386_003.png http://media.moddb.com/images/engines/1/1/29/krnl386_003.png Or which later became Click & Create, and The Games Factory
eevilspock 12y ago
> - crossing quadruple railroad tracks with TGVs passing on them. > - putting my head next to a passing TGV (about 2 feet away), just to see how it feels and be scared Do you know the statistics for children hurt by passing TGV trains, both now and back then? I suspect it is zero if not near zero.
- marrs 12y ago
  Well, presuming you're right, since a negative outcome is pretty absolute, I guess the more important question is, is the gain worth the risk?

delinka 12y ago

"...I'm not actually sure I want to let my kids do the same..." But you turned out OK, right? Why rob them of the experiences that shaped you into the wonderful adult human being you are today?

__xtrimsky 12y ago
because I don't believe it taught me anything. Even my memories aren't really happy memories, it's more like crazy memories. But as I am in the US now, I can't really even consider the same level of freedom, I would just end up in jail. I'll just try to give my kids as much freedom as I can. For my 2-year-old for example, when we are outside, I let her do anything as long as it's safe. Jumping into puddles, touching things covered in dirt, let her choose the streets she wants to walk on. At this age it's not really extreme yet :) BTW: I am a germaphobe. But as long as my own house is clean I'm ok with that. I just get my kid cleaned up as soon as she gets home. It is hard for me to watch her jump in puddles, but she is having so much fun :)
DanBC 12y ago
> But you turned out OK, Survivor bias. The kids who get killed playing on railway lines don't grow into adults to make a post on HN about how they used to play on railway lines.
- Dylan16807 12y ago
  I don't think the death rate is anywhere near high enough for survivor bias to be a major factor.

mrgriscom 12y ago

It's easy to say in retrospect "those didn't teach me anything" but hard to imagine what you'd actually be like without those experiences. Ever seen this episode? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tapestry_(Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tapestry_(Star_Trek:_The_Next_G...

__xtrimsky 12y ago
No, haven't really watched Star Trek except one movie. But I'll take a look at this episode, thanks :)

TeMPOraL 12y ago

Sounds like infulential experiences, actually. I'm guessing you're not the kind of person that is afraid of everything. I probably wouldn't want my kid to do the railroad stunts, but I think I'll be totally fine with the rest. Especially fireworks is something I want my kid to play with. Rockets are cool.

__xtrimsky 12y ago
I live in NY State, fireworks are forbidden, stupid new york law makers :( There are a lot of cool fireworks, I just thought there was a few a bit too dangerous being sold in France. But most of the ones I bought were safe and fun.

Swizec 12y ago

> - jumping off high ledges to see how far I can fall without hurting myself. This is actually VERY IMPORTANT knowledge. Knowing how much your body can take and knowing how to fall in a way that increases how much your body can take could mean the difference between life and death in many situations. As the Grim Reaper said when asked about giving a sword to a kid who could cut themselves: "That will be an important lesson."

__xtrimsky 12y ago
You are probably right. I knew I shouldn't jump from high places, but this actually increased the height I thought I could jump from.
omegaham 12y ago
Yep. I remember growing up with one of those older playgrounds - there was a platform about 6 feet off the ground that had a rope climb on one side of it. The idea was to get a kid to climb up the wall with the rope. Six-year-old me was fascinated with jumping off of the thing. And yes, it hurt sometimes. I fell on my face, I fell on my ass, I took hard landings that jarred my bones. But I learned, and it got to the point where I was taking a running start before jumping off (Parents pulled the plug at that point). Kids should learn that sort of stuff. Ideally, you want to protect them from "kill / maim you with no warning" stuff like electrical transformers, the third rail on the subway, dangerous chemicals, etc. You want to inculcate a healthy fear of stuff that will cause lasting harm. And, well, everything else should be free game. My parents told me I was free to go wherever on the bike as long as I stayed away from the really busy roads and wore my helmet (again, kill / maim you with no warning). The funny thing, to me, is that many of the sports that kids play are far, far more dangerous than these childhood games. Football kills and cripples kids every single year, but it's organized, so it's okay!
- Swizec 12y ago
  > Football kills and cripples kids every single year, but it's organized, so it's okay! Liability and blame. Parents are okay with letting their kids get injured if there is somebody to blame. Like the coach. Or some higher purpose "Oh they were training for a competition" But parents, and people in general, balk at personal responsibility.

Cthulhu_ 12y ago

Do you really need someone to point out what you learned? > - touching dog poop to enter a "ninja" club Dog poop is icky and kids will make other kids do anything, and they will do anything. > - entering many private properties A lot of private property is not very tightly secured. > - climbing dangerously high trees You can climb trees. Might save your life one day. > - crossing quadruple railroad tracks with TGVs passing on them. > - putting my head next to a passing TGV (about 2 feet away), just to see how it feels and be scared TGVs are fast and dangerous. Also said railroad tracks may not be adequately secured. etc. What would you have learned if you had stayed indoors? Nothing.

__xtrimsky 12y ago
The thing is, I new it was dangerous/icky before doing any of these things. I was just experiencing it instead of just knowing it. The only things I improved was my climbing skills. But I was doing a lot of climbing outside of this. My parents were letting me climb trees, and they did sign me up for acrobranch classes (real tree climbing, from bottom to top, not just the parks you explore that are man made), but I was safe, with a harness in these cases.

__xtrimsky 12y ago

Anyone out here had some fun with Klick & Play? http://media.moddb.com/images/engines/1/1/29/krnl386_003.png http://media.moddb.com/images/engines/1/1/29/krnl386_003.png Or which later became Click & Create, and The Games Factory

eevilspock 12y ago

> - crossing quadruple railroad tracks with TGVs passing on them. > - putting my head next to a passing TGV (about 2 feet away), just to see how it feels and be scared Do you know the statistics for children hurt by passing TGV trains, both now and back then? I suspect it is zero if not near zero.

marrs 12y ago
Well, presuming you're right, since a negative outcome is pretty absolute, I guess the more important question is, is the gain worth the risk?