5 ms·

I wouldn't be surprised if something else is happening. While his lawyer 'negotiates' look for snowden to turn up in a different extradition-free country. I th

I wouldn't be surprised if something else is happening. While his lawyer 'negotiates' look for snowden to turn up in a different extradition-free country. I think he's too smart to believe any platitudes about a "fair trial." Of course it will be a fair trial, just like manning got along with his years of solitary - completely fair and normal. As for a presidential pardon, I don't think that can happen without a conviction. Can you get a preemptive pardon?

toomuchtodo 12y ago
> As for a presidential pardon, I don't think that can happen without a conviction. Can you get a preemptive pardon? He could be granted immunity by the Justice Department.
- happyscrappy 12y ago
  Do journalists already have a copy of everything he took? If not that could be a powerful negotiating tool.
  - adventured 12y ago
    Yes, it was given to a few journalists. The full document load is no longer in Snowden's possession.
swamp40 12y ago
>> As for a presidential pardon, I don't think that can happen without a conviction. Can you get a preemptive pardon? Worked for Ford and Nixon: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Proclamation_4311 http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Proclamation_4311
- maxerickson 12y ago
  I found this summary when it came up in a recent previous discussion: http://www.nytimes.com/1988/01/05/opinion/l-constitution-allows-pardons-before-conviction-590688.html http://www.nytimes.com/1988/01/05/opinion/l-constitution-all...
libria 12y ago
> just like manning got along with his years of solitary her
- Someone1234 12y ago
  Nope. At the time of the solitary it was pre-transition so it was still "his years of solitary." It is now "her years of jail" however. And before someone kicks me for being pedantic, the above comment is being equally as pedantic with that correction.
  - libria 12y ago
    That is something I considered but thought we should refer to even an individual's past events by their current state. Otherwise we construct passages like "He was tried and imprisoned. After she was released, she reverted her gender identity. He rejoined the military and served 5 years." which is confusing.
    - sangnoir 12y ago
      I don't find it confusing at all. If the sentences are composed correctly, the subject will be obvious. Ian M. Banks did this in one of the Culture stories (in a single paragraph) - I thought it was a succinct way of denoting the current gender identity.
    - ekianjo 12y ago
      That's a little bit like rewriting facts though.
      - mkr-hn 12y ago
        She was always a woman. We just didn't know it because she was in the closet about being transgender.
    - mkr-hn 12y ago
      I wonder what style guides say about referring to the past actions of someone previously in the closet about being gay. That might be applicable here too.
jonnybgood 12y ago
Manning was subjected to the military justice system. Snowden will be subjected to the civilian justice system. They are very different.
- mason240 12y ago
  They also had very different motives and methods for what they did.
wmil 12y ago
Marc Rich (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Rich http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Rich) is a precedent for pardoning someone who's been indicted but won't return to the US for a trial.
dragonwriter 12y ago
> As for a presidential pardon, I don't think that can happen without a conviction. Can you get a preemptive pardon? Presidential pardon power is plenary, can apply to any and all offenses against the US, and can be applied before any criminal process has started. (Probably not apply to acts committed after the pardon is issued, though, so not really preemptive.)

toomuchtodo 12y ago

> As for a presidential pardon, I don't think that can happen without a conviction. Can you get a preemptive pardon? He could be granted immunity by the Justice Department.

happyscrappy 12y ago
Do journalists already have a copy of everything he took? If not that could be a powerful negotiating tool.
- adventured 12y ago
  Yes, it was given to a few journalists. The full document load is no longer in Snowden's possession.

swamp40 12y ago

>> As for a presidential pardon, I don't think that can happen without a conviction. Can you get a preemptive pardon? Worked for Ford and Nixon: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Proclamation_4311 http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Proclamation_4311

maxerickson 12y ago
I found this summary when it came up in a recent previous discussion: http://www.nytimes.com/1988/01/05/opinion/l-constitution-allows-pardons-before-conviction-590688.html http://www.nytimes.com/1988/01/05/opinion/l-constitution-all...

libria 12y ago

> just like manning got along with his years of solitary her

Someone1234 12y ago
Nope. At the time of the solitary it was pre-transition so it was still "his years of solitary." It is now "her years of jail" however. And before someone kicks me for being pedantic, the above comment is being equally as pedantic with that correction.
- libria 12y ago
  That is something I considered but thought we should refer to even an individual's past events by their current state. Otherwise we construct passages like "He was tried and imprisoned. After she was released, she reverted her gender identity. He rejoined the military and served 5 years." which is confusing.
  - sangnoir 12y ago
    I don't find it confusing at all. If the sentences are composed correctly, the subject will be obvious. Ian M. Banks did this in one of the Culture stories (in a single paragraph) - I thought it was a succinct way of denoting the current gender identity.
  - ekianjo 12y ago
    That's a little bit like rewriting facts though.
    - mkr-hn 12y ago
      She was always a woman. We just didn't know it because she was in the closet about being transgender.
  - mkr-hn 12y ago
    I wonder what style guides say about referring to the past actions of someone previously in the closet about being gay. That might be applicable here too.

jonnybgood 12y ago

Manning was subjected to the military justice system. Snowden will be subjected to the civilian justice system. They are very different.

mason240 12y ago
They also had very different motives and methods for what they did.

wmil 12y ago

Marc Rich (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Rich http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Rich) is a precedent for pardoning someone who's been indicted but won't return to the US for a trial.

dragonwriter 12y ago

> As for a presidential pardon, I don't think that can happen without a conviction. Can you get a preemptive pardon? Presidential pardon power is plenary, can apply to any and all offenses against the US, and can be applied before any criminal process has started. (Probably not apply to acts committed after the pardon is issued, though, so not really preemptive.)