5 ms·

Did GCHQ illegally spy on you?

64 points by xvirk 12y ago

the_angry_angel 12y ago
Collecting details? Ha. Nice try GCHQ :P /s
peterkelly 12y ago
Yes?
mavdi 12y ago
Last thing I want is for GCHQ to know that I'm worried about them spying on me. Then I will properly be spied on.
- bencoder 12y ago
  I feel the same, which is very concerning.
  - hipsters_unite 12y ago
    Yeah, I don't really have any faith in legal redress so while I support the intent behind this, I'm wary about actually filling it in.
    - mavdi 12y ago
      This is exactly the point of having such a system. They should be so proud it's working so well. When we were told the aim was to silence the dissatisfied citizens, we had doubts. But just think about it now, you're a dissatisfied citizen, and a silent one.
- etiam 12y ago
  Your call, but consider that the best time possible to push back is in coordination with others. I have no doubt you and I both are already 'properly' spied on. The Five Eyes agencies won't be taken to task for their transgressions by us hiding from them. At least this way we can contribute to an effort towards forcing them back under rule of law, finding out what they have collected and demand to have these records deleted. I'm signing this with every address I have.
  - rlpb 12y ago
    > Your call, but consider that the best time possible to push back is in coordination with others. Maybe they should include a volume promise? For example: "We'll only take action if at least 100,000 sign up, and only then file all contact details all together. If we don't achieve this number by x/y/2015, we will not use your details without further permission from you, and will delete your details within 90 days of that date unless you tell us we can do otherwise."
    - DanBC 12y ago
      Why does volume protect you? Most of this spying is automated. It doesn't make much difference to them if there are 1,000; 10,000 or 100,000 people on this list. There are already too many people of interest for GCHQ / etc to monitor individually effectively. And that group is only about a thousand people.
superkuh 12y ago
Probably, but I'll never know through this means because privacyinternational decided to rely on a javascript dependent page rendering.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
unfamiliar 12y ago
Page seems unclear about what the actual intent is. First it simply says "demanding that they finally come clean" i.e. inform you if your communications have been intercepted, but then you have to agree "...to request my records to be deleted." What if I want to know the former, just out of curiosity, but I'm not that bothered about demanding my records be deleted, depending on what was intercepted?
- etiam 12y ago
  Not that unclear on a closer look. From the FAQ at https://privacyinternational.org/?q=node/495 https://privacyinternational.org/?q=node/495 : "Why are we doing this? Intelligence agencies' culture of secrecy have allowed them, for too long, to avoid public accountability. Whether it’s secret hearings in closed court rooms or committees equipped only with rubber stamps, intelligence agencies like GCHQ have never been forced to answer to the public for their actions. We think you have a right to know whether you have been caught up in GCHQ and NSA's illegal intelligence sharing. If so, you have a right to demand that data be deleted. Privacy International wants to help you assert those rights."
- bjornsing 12y ago
  Exactly my first thought. I'd love to sign off on the first part of that, but "...to request my records to be deleted." Not so sure I want that (which goes to show I guess that I'm more concerned with the rule of law than the actual "privacy" of my communications).
SpaceInvader 12y ago
That looks like some sort of bait ;)
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
josephmx 12y ago
What do users who don't want to sign a petition have to do to find out if we've been spied on?
- etiam 12y ago
  The FAQ actually has a suggestion for that as well. Consider submitting a complaint here: http://www.ipt-uk.com/section.aspx?pageid=16 http://www.ipt-uk.com/section.aspx?pageid=16
sarciszewski 12y ago
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say the answer is Yes. For me anyway. :P
Aoyagi 12y ago
"How could we get a list of people who are afraid of being spied on, and therefore are suspicious?" Surely you wouldn't be worried if you had nothing to hide! /s
adaml_623 12y ago
The site isn't responding but I was assuming it would just come up with a 'Yes' in a similiar way to http://www.howmanypeopleareinspacerightnow.com/ http://www.howmanypeopleareinspacerightnow.com/ OR http://isberthastillstuck.com/ http://isberthastillstuck.com/
duncanawoods 12y ago
It feels like a reinvention of Pascal's wager to guarantee we don't sign up: a) if I'm worried then I want to sign up but not hand over my details b) if I'm not worried then I don't mind handing over my details but uninterested in signing up
- DanBC 12y ago
  But this makes it more important that regular people ask about their details. It sends the message that it's not just people with paranoia and terrorists that don't want a pervasive surveillance society, and that it's a normal everyday desire to not have your government spying on you. GCHQ will always want to slurp more data; they will rarely err on the side of less data. I used to be relaxed about central government spying, and less relaxed about local authorities using surveillance to check bins or school catchment areas, and less relaxed still about US companies ignoring the concepts of privacy. The failure of "them" to protect us from known radicals has made me a bit less relaxed about government spying.
andrew_stewart 12y ago
probably
sctb 12y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9057846 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9057846
luxpir 12y ago
I didn't want to take part the first time I saw this (linked to by sctb below) but on closer inspection and reading the comments this time around convinced me. Still not sure if I'll get to see what was collected, but at least confirmation will be interesting.

64 points by xvirk 12y ago

the_angry_angel 12y ago

Collecting details? Ha. Nice try GCHQ :P /s

peterkelly 12y ago

Yes?

mavdi 12y ago

Last thing I want is for GCHQ to know that I'm worried about them spying on me. Then I will properly be spied on.

bencoder 12y ago
I feel the same, which is very concerning.
- hipsters_unite 12y ago
  Yeah, I don't really have any faith in legal redress so while I support the intent behind this, I'm wary about actually filling it in.
  - mavdi 12y ago
    This is exactly the point of having such a system. They should be so proud it's working so well. When we were told the aim was to silence the dissatisfied citizens, we had doubts. But just think about it now, you're a dissatisfied citizen, and a silent one.
etiam 12y ago
Your call, but consider that the best time possible to push back is in coordination with others. I have no doubt you and I both are already 'properly' spied on. The Five Eyes agencies won't be taken to task for their transgressions by us hiding from them. At least this way we can contribute to an effort towards forcing them back under rule of law, finding out what they have collected and demand to have these records deleted. I'm signing this with every address I have.
- rlpb 12y ago
  > Your call, but consider that the best time possible to push back is in coordination with others. Maybe they should include a volume promise? For example: "We'll only take action if at least 100,000 sign up, and only then file all contact details all together. If we don't achieve this number by x/y/2015, we will not use your details without further permission from you, and will delete your details within 90 days of that date unless you tell us we can do otherwise."
  - DanBC 12y ago
    Why does volume protect you? Most of this spying is automated. It doesn't make much difference to them if there are 1,000; 10,000 or 100,000 people on this list. There are already too many people of interest for GCHQ / etc to monitor individually effectively. And that group is only about a thousand people.

superkuh 12y ago

Probably, but I'll never know through this means because privacyinternational decided to rely on a javascript dependent page rendering.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

unfamiliar 12y ago

Page seems unclear about what the actual intent is. First it simply says "demanding that they finally come clean" i.e. inform you if your communications have been intercepted, but then you have to agree "...to request my records to be deleted." What if I want to know the former, just out of curiosity, but I'm not that bothered about demanding my records be deleted, depending on what was intercepted?

etiam 12y ago
Not that unclear on a closer look. From the FAQ at https://privacyinternational.org/?q=node/495 https://privacyinternational.org/?q=node/495 : "Why are we doing this? Intelligence agencies' culture of secrecy have allowed them, for too long, to avoid public accountability. Whether it’s secret hearings in closed court rooms or committees equipped only with rubber stamps, intelligence agencies like GCHQ have never been forced to answer to the public for their actions. We think you have a right to know whether you have been caught up in GCHQ and NSA's illegal intelligence sharing. If so, you have a right to demand that data be deleted. Privacy International wants to help you assert those rights."
bjornsing 12y ago
Exactly my first thought. I'd love to sign off on the first part of that, but "...to request my records to be deleted." Not so sure I want that (which goes to show I guess that I'm more concerned with the rule of law than the actual "privacy" of my communications).

SpaceInvader 12y ago

That looks like some sort of bait ;)

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

josephmx 12y ago

What do users who don't want to sign a petition have to do to find out if we've been spied on?

etiam 12y ago
The FAQ actually has a suggestion for that as well. Consider submitting a complaint here: http://www.ipt-uk.com/section.aspx?pageid=16 http://www.ipt-uk.com/section.aspx?pageid=16

sarciszewski 12y ago

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say the answer is Yes. For me anyway. :P

Aoyagi 12y ago

"How could we get a list of people who are afraid of being spied on, and therefore are suspicious?" Surely you wouldn't be worried if you had nothing to hide! /s

adaml_623 12y ago

The site isn't responding but I was assuming it would just come up with a 'Yes' in a similiar way to http://www.howmanypeopleareinspacerightnow.com/ http://www.howmanypeopleareinspacerightnow.com/ OR http://isberthastillstuck.com/ http://isberthastillstuck.com/

duncanawoods 12y ago

It feels like a reinvention of Pascal's wager to guarantee we don't sign up: a) if I'm worried then I want to sign up but not hand over my details b) if I'm not worried then I don't mind handing over my details but uninterested in signing up

DanBC 12y ago
But this makes it more important that regular people ask about their details. It sends the message that it's not just people with paranoia and terrorists that don't want a pervasive surveillance society, and that it's a normal everyday desire to not have your government spying on you. GCHQ will always want to slurp more data; they will rarely err on the side of less data. I used to be relaxed about central government spying, and less relaxed about local authorities using surveillance to check bins or school catchment areas, and less relaxed still about US companies ignoring the concepts of privacy. The failure of "them" to protect us from known radicals has made me a bit less relaxed about government spying.

andrew_stewart 12y ago

probably

sctb 12y ago

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9057846 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9057846

luxpir 12y ago

I didn't want to take part the first time I saw this (linked to by sctb below) but on closer inspection and reading the comments this time around convinced me. Still not sure if I'll get to see what was collected, but at least confirmation will be interesting.