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Shame that I automatically convert all ads to nonexistance. It's too little, too late for rich media/content-heavy ads. Especially in the mobile sector: * Ads

Shame that I automatically convert all ads to nonexistance. It's too little, too late for rich media/content-heavy ads. Especially in the mobile sector: * Ads are a performance burden on low-power devices * They consume extra battery; power is wasted on superfluous cruft * Bandwidth wasted; especially a concern given draconian data caps * Tracking and privacy concerns Not to mention the fact that ads are a primary attack vector (think of all the advertising CDNs that have been compromised and used to deliver malware). The real improvement here is moving away from a proprietary plugin. Pointing out the problems of rich media ads isn't very useful here though, since most of us are probably aware already. My proposal would be simple, inline text, along the lines of "this page load sponsored by _". Doubt that will gain traction, though.

drzaiusapelord 12y ago
>They consume extra battery; I find it fascinating that Google is always hurting their own mobile experience. Between all the issues android has with wake locks and memory leaks and the massive infrastructure of location and 'lifestyle' tracking for ad delivery, its a miracle Android devices get any battery life at all. Even without this html5 conversion, Android battery life often pales compared to iOS or Windows Phone. The more I think about it, an OS from whats essentially an ad delivery company is probably a liability. Monetization will trump user experience. Get ready for some pretty invasive html5 ads.
- higherpurpose 12y ago
  Aren't most iOS apps ad-based, too?
  - Zirro 12y ago
    Not most of them, in my experience. Most seem to rely on the initial purchase price only, and many of those that used to have ads have switched to in-app purchases. While I could not tell you for sure why this is, several statistics indicate that iOS users have more money to spend and piracy is much less frequent. Ads also have a tendency to disrupt the "experience" of using an app which may be more discouraged on Apple platforms. With that said, there are also many apps which make no attempts at monetization at all.
    - wutbrodo 12y ago
      I would've thought on HN of all places that one wouldn't have to explain how silly it is to make conclusions based on incredibly anecdotal experience (particularly when more robust statistics are a quick Google away). "According to Distimo App Analytics, the mobile apps with higher gross earnings in both the Apple iTunes App Store and Google Play Store use freemium monetization methods.In October 2014, nine of the top 10 apps in the iTunes App Store within the US were freemium games, with Clash of Clans, Candy Crush Saga, and Game of War: Fire Age leading the ranking (followed by Pandora Radio). You have to go all the way down to the 27th place on the list to find a paid app, in this case Minecraft." http://thinkapps.com/blog/post-launch/paid-vs-freemium-app-monetization-statistics/ http://thinkapps.com/blog/post-launch/paid-vs-freemium-app-m... I've been keeping up with monetization statistics for apps, and last time I checked, ads+in-app purchase were 90-something % of revenue for iOS apps and growing.
      - Zirro 12y ago
        It should be noted that your source focuses on revenue, and not the amount of ad-supported/non-ad supported apps in the App Store which was the original question.
      - cheepin 12y ago
        Interestingly, these freemium games rely heavily on traditional television advertising.
- tdkl 12y ago
  That's probably why they're in size of a small tablet now.
  - drzaiusapelord 12y ago
    Seems like this is the easiest way to fix battery issues. Google is in an ugly place not only with its relationship with advertisers but with its own OEMs, who modify Android with usually battery-killing results. All that extra surface area means lots more battery. Its a classic 'throw hardware at the problem' approach and, unfortunately, that just seems where Android is going. As Lollipop has showed, Volta and ART are not battery savers. If anything, people are reporting worse battery life than under KitKat. I'm not going to go as far as saying Android is bloaty and out of control; I just don't think you can have the level of QA and control you need for an ultra-efficient mobile OS when you're dependent on so many other chefs to deliver your product and monetization for you (OEM hardware and software, ad monetization, user tracking to better ad delivery, etc).
    - engendered 12y ago
      As Lollipop has showed, Volta and ART are not battery savers. If anything, people are reporting worse battery life than under KitKat. Yet the GS5 shows dramatically better results. A number of handsets show dramatically better results. That you read someone's anecdote about their Nexus 5 is irrelevant. Sorry, but I find your posts hilarious, and again I have to say that they're astroturfing. "I'm not going to go as far" -- sure. Seriously, are people not aware that HN has been targeted?
- engendered 12y ago
  Android battery life often pales compared to iOS or Windows Phone. Chuckle. And this hilarious astroturfing gets a pass here.
  - hahainternet 12y ago
    created: 1452 days ago karma: 5273 He's probably not astroturfing, but that doesn't change the fact he's pulling 'facts' out of his arse.
    - saraid216 12y ago
      I wonder what the market for selling HN accounts is like.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
username223 12y ago
Ugh. Blocking or not installing Flash used to be an easy way to avoid the most annoying ads. Now I need to figure out some mixture of request-blocking and CSS element-hiding to make them go away. And CSS hiding doesn't address the fact that most of the bandwidth I buy on a cell carries content I don't want: a 1000-word article is maybe 5k of text, but how many megabytes of ads and Javascript garbage? Nor does it prevent the tracking. Simple, tasteful, first-party ads would make the world a much better place, but sadly, I don't think that's the direction we're heading.
- ChrisAntaki 12y ago
  If you can live without Flash, it's worth uninstalling. These days, the killer apps you'll experience from Flash are zero-day exploits.
jevinskie 12y ago
Also, on my iPad, I find that many websites (news sites are the worst offenders) keep messing with my "tap to zoom on the main column of text" action. That is, my zoom setting is reset several seconds after the main content is displayed. I have a hunch that it is, in a large part, due to ad networks loading long after the main content has loaded and forcing a reflow of the page.
s_q_b 12y ago
Like you, I don't mind ads per se. I even feel badly blocking them, knowing that I'm depriving a content creator of revenue. But the issues you point out are the very reason I can't have them in my browser. I used a computer without AdBlock the other day, and it was like stepping back into 1999 with every page saturated with the 21st century equivalent of animated GIFs and auto-play MIDIs. An alternative ad network isn't as far fetched as it might seem. Clearly delineated simple ads were a key differentiator in early iterations of Google Search. Perhaps what we need is a "ethical ads" network, with strict requirements on what could and could not be done: 1. Plain text and link only, with clear separation of content and advertising. 2. No user tracking (Maybe with explicit opt-in? And even then with as-good-as-possible anonymization of the stored data.) 3. A deal with AdBlock and competitors to share a cut of the revenue, in exchange for allowing Ethical Ads through. If advertisers and ad networks keep following the current trajectory, there will come a day when ads are simply too intrusive, and ad blocking will go (even more) completely mainstream. Rich media doesn't do advertisers any good if no one ever sees their ads.
- zabuni 12y ago
  This already happens, and people were upset about it. https://adblockplus.org/en/acceptable-ads#criteria https://adblockplus.org/en/acceptable-ads#criteria https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5995140 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5995140
  - s_q_b 12y ago
    Very interesting as well. I had no idea this existed.
- rm999 12y ago
  I used to work in the ad industry and deeply analyzed this stuff. There's a lot of unspoken secrets in the industry: 1. The majority of clicks go to flashy, annoying ads. 2. People who click on these ads rarely convert, i.e. sign up for a newsletter or purchase a product. These are probably accidental clicks. 3. The ROI on advertising is often negative. 4. No one cares about any of this because click through rates are still the gold standard. Advertisers aren't savvy enough to know better, and ad agencies don't get paid either way. It's a terribly inefficient industry, made worse by the fact that attribution is very difficult ("did this costumer buy this product because of an ad?"). This all has led to a fall in ad rates, which is just leading to more annoying ads. It's a vicious cycle that makes clean, honest text ads even less likely.
makecheck 12y ago
It's true that ads use bandwidth and battery but ad-blockers and web standards implementations built into browsers are not "free" either. It takes CPU to find and strip out ads, and bandwidth to contact filtering servers or whatever else guides the behavior of blockers (and generally the more blocking you opt in to, the more of this there is). I have seen an astounding drop in Chrome performance when using HTML5 YouTube videos on my laptop, where attempts to scroll and click take seconds to even respond and I haven't yet figured out why. I would still expect the cost to be less overall without Flash but it would be interesting to measure everything that is really going on and figure out if ads are really the worst offenders.
mjuoop 12y ago
Could you share how specifically and on what levels are your blocking adds?
hsod 12y ago
Off-Topic: Can you expand on why you feel data caps are "draconian"?

drzaiusapelord 12y ago

>They consume extra battery; I find it fascinating that Google is always hurting their own mobile experience. Between all the issues android has with wake locks and memory leaks and the massive infrastructure of location and 'lifestyle' tracking for ad delivery, its a miracle Android devices get any battery life at all. Even without this html5 conversion, Android battery life often pales compared to iOS or Windows Phone. The more I think about it, an OS from whats essentially an ad delivery company is probably a liability. Monetization will trump user experience. Get ready for some pretty invasive html5 ads.

higherpurpose 12y ago
Aren't most iOS apps ad-based, too?
- Zirro 12y ago
  Not most of them, in my experience. Most seem to rely on the initial purchase price only, and many of those that used to have ads have switched to in-app purchases. While I could not tell you for sure why this is, several statistics indicate that iOS users have more money to spend and piracy is much less frequent. Ads also have a tendency to disrupt the "experience" of using an app which may be more discouraged on Apple platforms. With that said, there are also many apps which make no attempts at monetization at all.
  - wutbrodo 12y ago
    I would've thought on HN of all places that one wouldn't have to explain how silly it is to make conclusions based on incredibly anecdotal experience (particularly when more robust statistics are a quick Google away). "According to Distimo App Analytics, the mobile apps with higher gross earnings in both the Apple iTunes App Store and Google Play Store use freemium monetization methods.In October 2014, nine of the top 10 apps in the iTunes App Store within the US were freemium games, with Clash of Clans, Candy Crush Saga, and Game of War: Fire Age leading the ranking (followed by Pandora Radio). You have to go all the way down to the 27th place on the list to find a paid app, in this case Minecraft." http://thinkapps.com/blog/post-launch/paid-vs-freemium-app-monetization-statistics/ http://thinkapps.com/blog/post-launch/paid-vs-freemium-app-m... I've been keeping up with monetization statistics for apps, and last time I checked, ads+in-app purchase were 90-something % of revenue for iOS apps and growing.
    - Zirro 12y ago
      It should be noted that your source focuses on revenue, and not the amount of ad-supported/non-ad supported apps in the App Store which was the original question.
    - cheepin 12y ago
      Interestingly, these freemium games rely heavily on traditional television advertising.
tdkl 12y ago
That's probably why they're in size of a small tablet now.
- drzaiusapelord 12y ago
  Seems like this is the easiest way to fix battery issues. Google is in an ugly place not only with its relationship with advertisers but with its own OEMs, who modify Android with usually battery-killing results. All that extra surface area means lots more battery. Its a classic 'throw hardware at the problem' approach and, unfortunately, that just seems where Android is going. As Lollipop has showed, Volta and ART are not battery savers. If anything, people are reporting worse battery life than under KitKat. I'm not going to go as far as saying Android is bloaty and out of control; I just don't think you can have the level of QA and control you need for an ultra-efficient mobile OS when you're dependent on so many other chefs to deliver your product and monetization for you (OEM hardware and software, ad monetization, user tracking to better ad delivery, etc).
  - engendered 12y ago
    As Lollipop has showed, Volta and ART are not battery savers. If anything, people are reporting worse battery life than under KitKat. Yet the GS5 shows dramatically better results. A number of handsets show dramatically better results. That you read someone's anecdote about their Nexus 5 is irrelevant. Sorry, but I find your posts hilarious, and again I have to say that they're astroturfing. "I'm not going to go as far" -- sure. Seriously, are people not aware that HN has been targeted?
engendered 12y ago
Android battery life often pales compared to iOS or Windows Phone. Chuckle. And this hilarious astroturfing gets a pass here.
- hahainternet 12y ago
  created: 1452 days ago karma: 5273 He's probably not astroturfing, but that doesn't change the fact he's pulling 'facts' out of his arse.
  - saraid216 12y ago
    I wonder what the market for selling HN accounts is like.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

username223 12y ago

Ugh. Blocking or not installing Flash used to be an easy way to avoid the most annoying ads. Now I need to figure out some mixture of request-blocking and CSS element-hiding to make them go away. And CSS hiding doesn't address the fact that most of the bandwidth I buy on a cell carries content I don't want: a 1000-word article is maybe 5k of text, but how many megabytes of ads and Javascript garbage? Nor does it prevent the tracking. Simple, tasteful, first-party ads would make the world a much better place, but sadly, I don't think that's the direction we're heading.

ChrisAntaki 12y ago
If you can live without Flash, it's worth uninstalling. These days, the killer apps you'll experience from Flash are zero-day exploits.

jevinskie 12y ago

Also, on my iPad, I find that many websites (news sites are the worst offenders) keep messing with my "tap to zoom on the main column of text" action. That is, my zoom setting is reset several seconds after the main content is displayed. I have a hunch that it is, in a large part, due to ad networks loading long after the main content has loaded and forcing a reflow of the page.

s_q_b 12y ago

Like you, I don't mind ads per se. I even feel badly blocking them, knowing that I'm depriving a content creator of revenue. But the issues you point out are the very reason I can't have them in my browser. I used a computer without AdBlock the other day, and it was like stepping back into 1999 with every page saturated with the 21st century equivalent of animated GIFs and auto-play MIDIs. An alternative ad network isn't as far fetched as it might seem. Clearly delineated simple ads were a key differentiator in early iterations of Google Search. Perhaps what we need is a "ethical ads" network, with strict requirements on what could and could not be done: 1. Plain text and link only, with clear separation of content and advertising. 2. No user tracking (Maybe with explicit opt-in? And even then with as-good-as-possible anonymization of the stored data.) 3. A deal with AdBlock and competitors to share a cut of the revenue, in exchange for allowing Ethical Ads through. If advertisers and ad networks keep following the current trajectory, there will come a day when ads are simply too intrusive, and ad blocking will go (even more) completely mainstream. Rich media doesn't do advertisers any good if no one ever sees their ads.

zabuni 12y ago
This already happens, and people were upset about it. https://adblockplus.org/en/acceptable-ads#criteria https://adblockplus.org/en/acceptable-ads#criteria https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5995140 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5995140
- s_q_b 12y ago
  Very interesting as well. I had no idea this existed.
rm999 12y ago
I used to work in the ad industry and deeply analyzed this stuff. There's a lot of unspoken secrets in the industry: 1. The majority of clicks go to flashy, annoying ads. 2. People who click on these ads rarely convert, i.e. sign up for a newsletter or purchase a product. These are probably accidental clicks. 3. The ROI on advertising is often negative. 4. No one cares about any of this because click through rates are still the gold standard. Advertisers aren't savvy enough to know better, and ad agencies don't get paid either way. It's a terribly inefficient industry, made worse by the fact that attribution is very difficult ("did this costumer buy this product because of an ad?"). This all has led to a fall in ad rates, which is just leading to more annoying ads. It's a vicious cycle that makes clean, honest text ads even less likely.

makecheck 12y ago

It's true that ads use bandwidth and battery but ad-blockers and web standards implementations built into browsers are not "free" either. It takes CPU to find and strip out ads, and bandwidth to contact filtering servers or whatever else guides the behavior of blockers (and generally the more blocking you opt in to, the more of this there is). I have seen an astounding drop in Chrome performance when using HTML5 YouTube videos on my laptop, where attempts to scroll and click take seconds to even respond and I haven't yet figured out why. I would still expect the cost to be less overall without Flash but it would be interesting to measure everything that is really going on and figure out if ads are really the worst offenders.

mjuoop 12y ago

Could you share how specifically and on what levels are your blocking adds?

hsod 12y ago

Off-Topic: Can you expand on why you feel data caps are "draconian"?