8 ms·

Unreal Engine 4.7 Released

188 points by Red_Tarsius 12y ago

santaclaus 12y ago
Will the UI render correctly on a retina display? One (I know I know) minor quirk that always gets me about Unity is how crappy it looks on newer Macs.
- tumult 12y ago
  Yes, the UI used by UE4 (Slate) is resolution independent. It can be scaled freely.
  - alxhill 12y ago
    Unless it's a new feature, the UE4 UI does not render at retina resolution - certainly looks pretty pixelated on my rMBP.
azakai 12y ago
Nice to see this: > HTML5 platform + WebGL is ready to use -- run your game in a compatible browser with a single click!
- jgrowl 12y ago
  (WINDOWS ONLY) :(
  - azakai 12y ago
    I assume that's a temporary limitation, they have lots of developers on OS X.
    - melling 12y ago
      Yes, they state that in the article. "Windows is currently required for HTML5 support. We’re working on Mac for an upcoming release."
  - vertex-four 12y ago
    That's just building that is Windows-only, obviously the apps will work on any reasonably modern browser. And OSX support should likely come as soon as they can package the tools properly.
- rl3 12y ago
  More detail on browser limitations would be nice. I know the article states you can ship builds in 32-bit browsers, but are there any significant limitations involved? This would be problematic since, for example, Chrome 64-bit isn't yet the default release build. I really wish there was more comprehensive documentation relating to UE4's limitations in a WebGL context. For example, lighting, shading, post-process effects, anti-aliasing, how they all behave relative to a full-featured desktop environment. The same thing for mobile compile targets wouldn't be a bad idea, either. Also, it seems some otherwise popular third party plugins aren't supported in UE4 WebGL projects: https://forums.coherent-labs.com/index.php?topic=691.0 https://forums.coherent-labs.com/index.php?topic=691.0 I understand Coherent's reasoning, but I imagine developers who built their UE4 projects with Coherent UI aren't very happy that their prospects of easily compiling to WebGL are non-existent due to the total headache involved. Plus, webkit.js for UE4 would be really cool, and that's essentially what CUI running in a UE4 web-exported context would be. Despite all this I'm really happy for this release, and ultimately it's a huge step in the right direction.
  - desdiv 12y ago
    This is problematic since, for example, Chrome 64-bit isn't yet the default release build. Surprisingly enough, there isn't even an official supported build of Firefox 64-bit for Windows. Coupled with the Chrome issue you mentioned, I'll bet that at least 80% of users out there aren't using a 64-bit browser.
    - TazeTSchnitzel 12y ago
      There used to be a 64-bit Firefox, I think it was short-sighted of Mozilla to drop it. Oh well.
    - Fr0styMatt4 12y ago
      This is insane in 2015. I understand the difficulties of porting, but at the same time, I've had a 64-bit CPU since 2009 and I was late to the party :)
  - smooc 12y ago
    Did you check the article? In the pictures they actually launch 32bit firefox.
- daredevildave 12y ago
  Do they mention output file size?
- greggman 12y ago
  It's not nearly that easy. It would be good to know what the minimum size is. If all you want to do is put a cube on the screen how large is the JavaScript blob you have to download? Then, most games have tens or hundreds of megs of data. Does Unreal do anything to help this? An ideal HTML5/WebGL game engine would have many of the features of flash letting the game start with a minimal amount of data and downloading the rest in the background and/or on demand. I know of no WebGL game engine that handles that in any graceful and developer friendly way though I'm sure it will come at some point. On top of that you need to deal with where the user is coming from. Are they on a phone or tablet with only touch controls? A slow desktop? A fast desktop? Do you handle both mouse and touchpad? I've seen almost no games handle these issues. Almost all assume you're on a desktop with a mouse which might be true for gamers but is not true for most people browsing the web (mobile or desktop). For mobile you could check and tell them to download the app. Does Unreal deal with any of these issues in a dev and user friendly way? Until then though most Unreal->WebGL or Unity->WebGL apps will probably have relatively poor user experiences.
revisionzero 12y ago
As a semi-recent Unity Developer, I find myself really wanting to jump ship to Unreal, really great stuff all around.
- Fr0styMatt4 12y ago
  I really, really, REALLY hope that Unity fixes their editor UI in version 5 (I haven't tried the beta yet, so maybe it's the case already), but as it stands right now I can't use Unity for long stretches (visual impairment). The font rendering in the editor is terrible, even at 1920x1200 the text is too small (froget about Retina even). This has been a problem with Unity for YEARS, which is a shame because it's a great tool otherwise. I'm still torn between the two tools, they're both fantastic for different reasons, but if Unity 5 can't fix their editor then I think I'll have to jump ship just out of necessity.
  - tomc1985 12y ago
    I rather like the font rendering in Unity. Text and screen elements are tightly-spaced, small, and compact, just as good power-user software should be
- philtar 12y ago
  Same. Can someone pitch in please?
  - fr0styMatt2 12y ago
    Unfortunately some more Googling has turned up a disappointing result: http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/how-to-change-font-size-in-unity-editor.149481/ http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/how-to-change-font-size-in-... The thread has a recent answer down the bottom. It amazes me how this has seemingly been such a low priority item for the Unity Editor team for so long. This is a tool that people are expected to live in for an extended amount of time. This problem needs more widespread recognition than it's getting.
    - 12y ago
benihana 12y ago
People who develop on Unity: How does Unity compare to Unreal performance-wise? The only experience I have with Unity is playing Kerbal Space Program which is often a performance nightmare and I'm wondering if it's Unity or the game developers.
- lelandbatey 12y ago
  I suspect it's a bit of both. My money's on Unreal as the highest performing in terms of fancy graphics. However, the "game programming" can vary hugely from game to game, even in the same engine. It's probably hard to compare the efficiency of game logic outside of game-to-game cases.
- felipesoc 12y ago
  I don't know compared to Unreal but Unity has several hidden performance issues. I am currently working on Bullet Boy [1] and we had several obscure problems that you have to fix with a lot of trial and error. Specific combinations of components and attributes can cause frame rate to drop because of the internal organization of the engine (moving colliders without rigidbodies comes to mind). That being said, it is really easy to use. The asset pipeline is great and artists learn to use it very fast. It works really well for small teams. My recommendation is that you should consider it if you are not planning to make a very performance intensive game. [1] http://bulletboygame.com http://bulletboygame.com
  - conover 12y ago
    Off Topic: For some reason on Chrome 40.0.2214.111 I can't click the play button on the YouTube video of your bulletboygame.com site. Edit: The cloud-right div covers the top three quarters of the video player.
  - keyle 12y ago
    Great game! Good luck finishing it!
  - unoti 12y ago
    Bullet Boy looks amazing. Regarding Unity vs. Unreal, it looks to me like Unity is better for targeting mobile devices, at least if you're planning to deploy this year. Last time I played Tappy Chicken, it devastates my batter and makes my phone hot enough to cook on. Unreal has amazing advantages for the desktop, but it doesn't look to me to be a good way to make mobile games. If I'm wrong about this, someone please tell me, because I'd rather use Unreal, but I need to deploy mobile, so I'm using Unity.
rdudek 12y ago
Quick question, have there been any UE4 engine games released yet? I see tons of Unity stuff. I really wanted to try Unity but just can't afford their pricetag.
- evanwalsh 12y ago
  There have been a few. Murdered: Soul Suspect, Daylight, and D4: Dark Dreams Don't Die being the biggest ones. Wikipedia has a list of a lot of titles either out or in development: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unreal_Engine_games#Unreal_Engine_4 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unreal_Engine_games#Un...
- desdiv 12y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unreal_Engine_games#Unreal_Engine_4 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unreal_Engine_games#Un...
  - rdudek 12y ago
    Wow, thanks for the link. Looks like a pretty decent sized list of games.
- blister 12y ago
  What price tag? Unity is free. It doesn't start costing money until you need to start doing slightly more complicated things or your revenue goes over 100k annually. That's plenty of time to experiment.
  - dhritzkiv 12y ago
    $19/month for the SDK + 5% of your sales.
    - upbeat_addict 12y ago
      The subscription entitles you to updates, but you can cancel it and still have access to the SDK, it's tools and can also release yr game without an active subscription. The 5% is still applied, but you have to reach a certain sum of sales before it's incurred.
AndrewKemendo 12y ago
Can this be used as a standalone 3d Engine without it being scene based for iOS applications? That is the big issue with Unity - and most engines actually - which keeps us from using it. We can't find a robust (UE/Unity level) mobile 3D Engine that is not scene based or just built for level based games.
- Jare 12y ago
  Engine-supported scenes are a convenience, you don't need to use them if their cons outweigh their pros.
- ChrisClark 12y ago
  I only have one scene in my Unity games. I load and do everything I want with my own custom code. The feature to use scenes is there, but I don't bother to use it. Just like Minecraft clones built in Unity, the scene is empty, the code does all the work dynamically loading and displaying the level.
- philtar 12y ago
  Why is that an issue on iOS? Genuinely curious.
  - AndrewKemendo 12y ago
    Depends on the application. For us we just need an open 3D rendering engine that allows for good lighting and textures.
  - moron4hire 12y ago
    I believe the issue is that scenegraphs tend to make spatial partitioning more difficult, which means culling objects that are out of view is more difficult.
- Impossible 12y ago
  Not sure what the exact ask is here. Are you building an open world or virtual world game? Do you just want a 3D renderer without the game engine? Both Unity and Unreal 4 can be used for non-level based games, and Unreal has some special facilities to support that (world compositor specifically - https://docs.unrealengine.com/latest/INT/Engine/LevelStreaming/WorldBrowser/index.html https://docs.unrealengine.com/latest/INT/Engine/LevelStreami...).
dysoco 12y ago
I've never really considered Unreal Engine. I'm more of a hobbyist making small 2D games, recently picked up Unity (been using SFML and LibGDX before) to make some small games. I guess UE doesn't really target small games? When I think of Unreal Engine I think of AAA FPS Games with amazing graphics, but has anyone actually used it for small indie games? Also nice to see it's opensource, I guess I read the news a couple of months ago but I forgot. I had no idea.
- Athas 12y ago
  Point of correction: Unreal Engine is not open source, the source is merely available for perusal. You still need a license for most uses.
  - evincarofautumn 12y ago
    So the source is open, it’s just not free. (I don’t want to sound like I agree with Stallman. I’m just trying to clarify definitions.)
    - scott_karana 12y ago
      Well, the source is only "open" to subscribers: it's in a private Github repository. Stop paying, and you stop getting access to it, and it's illegal to publish even for perusal.
      - rvkennedy 12y ago
        Exactly: the source is "open" to paying subscribers, just as the source to... just about any closed source software anywhere, can be seen if you buy a licence to see it. It fits NO definition of OS that I'm aware of.
      - evincarofautumn 12y ago
        Oh, I was mistaken. I thought it was available for anyone to browse, and you just couldn’t use it unless you bought a license.
fsiefken 12y ago
How does the Unreal Engine compare to the CryEngine? I've the impression it's more efficient, this is important to get the best performance out of VR games.

188 points by Red_Tarsius 12y ago

Will the UI render correctly on a retina display? One (I know I know) minor quirk that always gets me about Unity is how crappy it looks on newer Macs.

tumult 12y ago
Yes, the UI used by UE4 (Slate) is resolution independent. It can be scaled freely.
- alxhill 12y ago
  Unless it's a new feature, the UE4 UI does not render at retina resolution - certainly looks pretty pixelated on my rMBP.

azakai 12y ago

Nice to see this: > HTML5 platform + WebGL is ready to use -- run your game in a compatible browser with a single click!

jgrowl 12y ago
(WINDOWS ONLY) :(
- azakai 12y ago
  I assume that's a temporary limitation, they have lots of developers on OS X.
  - melling 12y ago
    Yes, they state that in the article. "Windows is currently required for HTML5 support. We’re working on Mac for an upcoming release."
- vertex-four 12y ago
  That's just building that is Windows-only, obviously the apps will work on any reasonably modern browser. And OSX support should likely come as soon as they can package the tools properly.
rl3 12y ago
More detail on browser limitations would be nice. I know the article states you can ship builds in 32-bit browsers, but are there any significant limitations involved? This would be problematic since, for example, Chrome 64-bit isn't yet the default release build. I really wish there was more comprehensive documentation relating to UE4's limitations in a WebGL context. For example, lighting, shading, post-process effects, anti-aliasing, how they all behave relative to a full-featured desktop environment. The same thing for mobile compile targets wouldn't be a bad idea, either. Also, it seems some otherwise popular third party plugins aren't supported in UE4 WebGL projects: https://forums.coherent-labs.com/index.php?topic=691.0 https://forums.coherent-labs.com/index.php?topic=691.0 I understand Coherent's reasoning, but I imagine developers who built their UE4 projects with Coherent UI aren't very happy that their prospects of easily compiling to WebGL are non-existent due to the total headache involved. Plus, webkit.js for UE4 would be really cool, and that's essentially what CUI running in a UE4 web-exported context would be. Despite all this I'm really happy for this release, and ultimately it's a huge step in the right direction.
- desdiv 12y ago
  This is problematic since, for example, Chrome 64-bit isn't yet the default release build. Surprisingly enough, there isn't even an official supported build of Firefox 64-bit for Windows. Coupled with the Chrome issue you mentioned, I'll bet that at least 80% of users out there aren't using a 64-bit browser.
  - TazeTSchnitzel 12y ago
    There used to be a 64-bit Firefox, I think it was short-sighted of Mozilla to drop it. Oh well.
  - Fr0styMatt4 12y ago
    This is insane in 2015. I understand the difficulties of porting, but at the same time, I've had a 64-bit CPU since 2009 and I was late to the party :)
- smooc 12y ago
  Did you check the article? In the pictures they actually launch 32bit firefox.
daredevildave 12y ago
Do they mention output file size?
greggman 12y ago
It's not nearly that easy. It would be good to know what the minimum size is. If all you want to do is put a cube on the screen how large is the JavaScript blob you have to download? Then, most games have tens or hundreds of megs of data. Does Unreal do anything to help this? An ideal HTML5/WebGL game engine would have many of the features of flash letting the game start with a minimal amount of data and downloading the rest in the background and/or on demand. I know of no WebGL game engine that handles that in any graceful and developer friendly way though I'm sure it will come at some point. On top of that you need to deal with where the user is coming from. Are they on a phone or tablet with only touch controls? A slow desktop? A fast desktop? Do you handle both mouse and touchpad? I've seen almost no games handle these issues. Almost all assume you're on a desktop with a mouse which might be true for gamers but is not true for most people browsing the web (mobile or desktop). For mobile you could check and tell them to download the app. Does Unreal deal with any of these issues in a dev and user friendly way? Until then though most Unreal->WebGL or Unity->WebGL apps will probably have relatively poor user experiences.

revisionzero 12y ago

As a semi-recent Unity Developer, I find myself really wanting to jump ship to Unreal, really great stuff all around.

Fr0styMatt4 12y ago
I really, really, REALLY hope that Unity fixes their editor UI in version 5 (I haven't tried the beta yet, so maybe it's the case already), but as it stands right now I can't use Unity for long stretches (visual impairment). The font rendering in the editor is terrible, even at 1920x1200 the text is too small (froget about Retina even). This has been a problem with Unity for YEARS, which is a shame because it's a great tool otherwise. I'm still torn between the two tools, they're both fantastic for different reasons, but if Unity 5 can't fix their editor then I think I'll have to jump ship just out of necessity.
- tomc1985 12y ago
  I rather like the font rendering in Unity. Text and screen elements are tightly-spaced, small, and compact, just as good power-user software should be
philtar 12y ago
Same. Can someone pitch in please?
- fr0styMatt2 12y ago
  Unfortunately some more Googling has turned up a disappointing result: http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/how-to-change-font-size-in-unity-editor.149481/ http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/how-to-change-font-size-in-... The thread has a recent answer down the bottom. It amazes me how this has seemingly been such a low priority item for the Unity Editor team for so long. This is a tool that people are expected to live in for an extended amount of time. This problem needs more widespread recognition than it's getting.
  - 12y ago

benihana 12y ago

People who develop on Unity: How does Unity compare to Unreal performance-wise? The only experience I have with Unity is playing Kerbal Space Program which is often a performance nightmare and I'm wondering if it's Unity or the game developers.

lelandbatey 12y ago
I suspect it's a bit of both. My money's on Unreal as the highest performing in terms of fancy graphics. However, the "game programming" can vary hugely from game to game, even in the same engine. It's probably hard to compare the efficiency of game logic outside of game-to-game cases.
felipesoc 12y ago
I don't know compared to Unreal but Unity has several hidden performance issues. I am currently working on Bullet Boy [1] and we had several obscure problems that you have to fix with a lot of trial and error. Specific combinations of components and attributes can cause frame rate to drop because of the internal organization of the engine (moving colliders without rigidbodies comes to mind). That being said, it is really easy to use. The asset pipeline is great and artists learn to use it very fast. It works really well for small teams. My recommendation is that you should consider it if you are not planning to make a very performance intensive game. [1] http://bulletboygame.com http://bulletboygame.com
- conover 12y ago
  Off Topic: For some reason on Chrome 40.0.2214.111 I can't click the play button on the YouTube video of your bulletboygame.com site. Edit: The cloud-right div covers the top three quarters of the video player.
- keyle 12y ago
  Great game! Good luck finishing it!
- unoti 12y ago
  Bullet Boy looks amazing. Regarding Unity vs. Unreal, it looks to me like Unity is better for targeting mobile devices, at least if you're planning to deploy this year. Last time I played Tappy Chicken, it devastates my batter and makes my phone hot enough to cook on. Unreal has amazing advantages for the desktop, but it doesn't look to me to be a good way to make mobile games. If I'm wrong about this, someone please tell me, because I'd rather use Unreal, but I need to deploy mobile, so I'm using Unity.

rdudek 12y ago

Quick question, have there been any UE4 engine games released yet? I see tons of Unity stuff. I really wanted to try Unity but just can't afford their pricetag.

evanwalsh 12y ago
There have been a few. Murdered: Soul Suspect, Daylight, and D4: Dark Dreams Don't Die being the biggest ones. Wikipedia has a list of a lot of titles either out or in development: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unreal_Engine_games#Unreal_Engine_4 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unreal_Engine_games#Un...
desdiv 12y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unreal_Engine_games#Unreal_Engine_4 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unreal_Engine_games#Un...
- rdudek 12y ago
  Wow, thanks for the link. Looks like a pretty decent sized list of games.
blister 12y ago
What price tag? Unity is free. It doesn't start costing money until you need to start doing slightly more complicated things or your revenue goes over 100k annually. That's plenty of time to experiment.
- dhritzkiv 12y ago
  $19/month for the SDK + 5% of your sales.
  - upbeat_addict 12y ago
    The subscription entitles you to updates, but you can cancel it and still have access to the SDK, it's tools and can also release yr game without an active subscription. The 5% is still applied, but you have to reach a certain sum of sales before it's incurred.

AndrewKemendo 12y ago

Can this be used as a standalone 3d Engine without it being scene based for iOS applications? That is the big issue with Unity - and most engines actually - which keeps us from using it. We can't find a robust (UE/Unity level) mobile 3D Engine that is not scene based or just built for level based games.

Jare 12y ago
Engine-supported scenes are a convenience, you don't need to use them if their cons outweigh their pros.
ChrisClark 12y ago
I only have one scene in my Unity games. I load and do everything I want with my own custom code. The feature to use scenes is there, but I don't bother to use it. Just like Minecraft clones built in Unity, the scene is empty, the code does all the work dynamically loading and displaying the level.
philtar 12y ago
Why is that an issue on iOS? Genuinely curious.
- AndrewKemendo 12y ago
  Depends on the application. For us we just need an open 3D rendering engine that allows for good lighting and textures.
- moron4hire 12y ago
  I believe the issue is that scenegraphs tend to make spatial partitioning more difficult, which means culling objects that are out of view is more difficult.
Impossible 12y ago
Not sure what the exact ask is here. Are you building an open world or virtual world game? Do you just want a 3D renderer without the game engine? Both Unity and Unreal 4 can be used for non-level based games, and Unreal has some special facilities to support that (world compositor specifically - https://docs.unrealengine.com/latest/INT/Engine/LevelStreaming/WorldBrowser/index.html https://docs.unrealengine.com/latest/INT/Engine/LevelStreami...).

dysoco 12y ago

I've never really considered Unreal Engine. I'm more of a hobbyist making small 2D games, recently picked up Unity (been using SFML and LibGDX before) to make some small games. I guess UE doesn't really target small games? When I think of Unreal Engine I think of AAA FPS Games with amazing graphics, but has anyone actually used it for small indie games? Also nice to see it's opensource, I guess I read the news a couple of months ago but I forgot. I had no idea.

Athas 12y ago
Point of correction: Unreal Engine is not open source, the source is merely available for perusal. You still need a license for most uses.
- evincarofautumn 12y ago
  So the source is open, it’s just not free. (I don’t want to sound like I agree with Stallman. I’m just trying to clarify definitions.)
  - scott_karana 12y ago
    Well, the source is only "open" to subscribers: it's in a private Github repository. Stop paying, and you stop getting access to it, and it's illegal to publish even for perusal.
    - rvkennedy 12y ago
      Exactly: the source is "open" to paying subscribers, just as the source to... just about any closed source software anywhere, can be seen if you buy a licence to see it. It fits NO definition of OS that I'm aware of.
    - evincarofautumn 12y ago
      Oh, I was mistaken. I thought it was available for anyone to browse, and you just couldn’t use it unless you bought a license.

fsiefken 12y ago

How does the Unreal Engine compare to the CryEngine? I've the impression it's more efficient, this is important to get the best performance out of VR games.