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So what is the bootstrap process going to be? Other than already have a Go compiler I mean. Or is it have a Go cross compiler? Maybe it matters less, you used

So what is the bootstrap process going to be? Other than already have a Go compiler I mean. Or is it have a Go cross compiler? Maybe it matters less, you used to always assume bootstrap from C but that more or less died with C++ based compilers, although you can do a multistage bootstrap from the last gcc before C++ still.

ori_b 12y ago
Either cross compile, or get the last C-based Go compiler, and use that to build the more recent Go releases.
yiyus 12y ago
It is explained in the design document: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1P3BLR31VA8cvLJLfMibSuTdwTuF7WWLux71CYD0eeD8/edit https://docs.google.com/document/d/1P3BLR31VA8cvLJLfMibSuTdw... Basically, you start from the last C version, and every version is supposed to be able to compile the next one.
- justincormack 12y ago
  Ah ok, so there will be a pretty long chain from 1.2 eventually, but hopefully it will be part of the test suite...
  - jlouis 12y ago
    Usually you don't keep the chain. You just keep a working compiler. You can also bootstrap from another implementation of the language, e.g., gccgo. A common trick is to keep a highly portable interpreted version of the target language and then use this for bootstrapping, but often you attack new architectures by cross-compilation instead. It all depends. Also, it is common for self-hosting languages to require themselves to build.
  - enneff 12y ago
    You should always be able to build a Go 1.x compiler with just the 1.4 tool chain binaries. We have committed to sticking to the Go 1.4 language and libraries for the compiler tool chain.
    - TheLoneWolfling 12y ago
      Where is this fact documented? Are patches tested against 1.4 tool chain binaries?
      - madhusudancs 12y ago
        Here https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OaatvGhEAq7VseQ9kkavxKNAfepWy2yhPUBs96FGV28/edit https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OaatvGhEAq7VseQ9kkavxKNA... In the proposal section.
      - enneff 12y ago
        > Where is this fact documented? http://tip.golang.org/doc/install/source#go14 http://tip.golang.org/doc/install/source#go14 > Are patches tested against 1.4 tool chain binaries? The builders build the tool chain with Go 1.4, so the build dashboard will show failures if a patch incompatible with 1.4 is submitted. (We have pre-commit trybots that do the same.)
- cperciva 12y ago
  So if you want to avoid trusting trust, you need to audit not only a C compiler and the source code for the Go compiler you plan on using, but also every past Go compiler as well?
  - f2f 12y ago
    You can't avoid trusting trust. "Ken was here" :)
    - sanxiyn 12y ago
      You actually can. Proof here: http://www.dwheeler.com/trusting-trust/ http://www.dwheeler.com/trusting-trust/
      - f2f 12y ago
        I was alluding to Ken being the author of the old, as well as one of the authors of the new compiler. In jest :)
    - cperciva 12y ago
      You can. You just have to bootstrap all the way up.
      - deleted 12y ago
        [deleted]
      - fugyk 12y ago
        What if any intermediate version is found to contain the violation of trusting trust? Every go maintainer has to build every version sequentially from that version to current version.
  - sesutton 12y ago
    You could audit the Go source and then use the diverse double compiling technique[0] to verify that the binary you're using corresponds to that source code. [0] http://www.dwheeler.com/trusting-trust/dissertation/html/wheeler-trusting-trust-ddc.html http://www.dwheeler.com/trusting-trust/dissertation/html/whe...
burnte 12y ago
But if one has access to the Go compiler source, is it not a reasonable guess that one would be able to access a go compiler binary from the same trusted source? I just don't see this as a problem since it is impossible to build a computer from the ground up without trusting a lot of software first.
dmm 12y ago
Probably gccgo, which is included in gcc.
- dmm 12y ago
  For the purposes of bootstrapping.
cbd1984 12y ago
> So what is the bootstrap process going to be? Other than already have a Go compiler I mean. Or is it have a Go cross compiler? What's the bootstrap process for the C compiler part of the compiler?
- 4ad 12y ago
  The is no C code in the compilers anymore.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]

ori_b 12y ago

Either cross compile, or get the last C-based Go compiler, and use that to build the more recent Go releases.

yiyus 12y ago

It is explained in the design document: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1P3BLR31VA8cvLJLfMibSuTdwTuF7WWLux71CYD0eeD8/edit https://docs.google.com/document/d/1P3BLR31VA8cvLJLfMibSuTdw... Basically, you start from the last C version, and every version is supposed to be able to compile the next one.

justincormack 12y ago
Ah ok, so there will be a pretty long chain from 1.2 eventually, but hopefully it will be part of the test suite...
- jlouis 12y ago
  Usually you don't keep the chain. You just keep a working compiler. You can also bootstrap from another implementation of the language, e.g., gccgo. A common trick is to keep a highly portable interpreted version of the target language and then use this for bootstrapping, but often you attack new architectures by cross-compilation instead. It all depends. Also, it is common for self-hosting languages to require themselves to build.
- enneff 12y ago
  You should always be able to build a Go 1.x compiler with just the 1.4 tool chain binaries. We have committed to sticking to the Go 1.4 language and libraries for the compiler tool chain.
  - TheLoneWolfling 12y ago
    Where is this fact documented? Are patches tested against 1.4 tool chain binaries?
    - madhusudancs 12y ago
      Here https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OaatvGhEAq7VseQ9kkavxKNAfepWy2yhPUBs96FGV28/edit https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OaatvGhEAq7VseQ9kkavxKNA... In the proposal section.
    - enneff 12y ago
      > Where is this fact documented? http://tip.golang.org/doc/install/source#go14 http://tip.golang.org/doc/install/source#go14 > Are patches tested against 1.4 tool chain binaries? The builders build the tool chain with Go 1.4, so the build dashboard will show failures if a patch incompatible with 1.4 is submitted. (We have pre-commit trybots that do the same.)
cperciva 12y ago
So if you want to avoid trusting trust, you need to audit not only a C compiler and the source code for the Go compiler you plan on using, but also every past Go compiler as well?
- f2f 12y ago
  You can't avoid trusting trust. "Ken was here" :)
  - sanxiyn 12y ago
    You actually can. Proof here: http://www.dwheeler.com/trusting-trust/ http://www.dwheeler.com/trusting-trust/
    - f2f 12y ago
      I was alluding to Ken being the author of the old, as well as one of the authors of the new compiler. In jest :)
  - cperciva 12y ago
    You can. You just have to bootstrap all the way up.
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
    - fugyk 12y ago
      What if any intermediate version is found to contain the violation of trusting trust? Every go maintainer has to build every version sequentially from that version to current version.
- sesutton 12y ago
  You could audit the Go source and then use the diverse double compiling technique[0] to verify that the binary you're using corresponds to that source code. [0] http://www.dwheeler.com/trusting-trust/dissertation/html/wheeler-trusting-trust-ddc.html http://www.dwheeler.com/trusting-trust/dissertation/html/whe...

burnte 12y ago

But if one has access to the Go compiler source, is it not a reasonable guess that one would be able to access a go compiler binary from the same trusted source? I just don't see this as a problem since it is impossible to build a computer from the ground up without trusting a lot of software first.

dmm 12y ago

Probably gccgo, which is included in gcc.

dmm 12y ago
For the purposes of bootstrapping.

cbd1984 12y ago

> So what is the bootstrap process going to be? Other than already have a Go compiler I mean. Or is it have a Go cross compiler? What's the bootstrap process for the C compiler part of the compiler?

4ad 12y ago
The is no C code in the compilers anymore.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]