6 ms·

When interviewing, I will absolutely rule a company out if the office space isn't appropriate. I like open offices, but I need my own desk, and my back to a wal

by bcbrown 12y ago

When interviewing, I will absolutely rule a company out if the office space isn't appropriate. I like open offices, but I need my own desk, and my back to a wall. Any companies with bullpen-style shared long tables is immediately out.

e40 12y ago
but I need my own desk, and my back to a wall I'm curious why you want your back to the wall. All the people I know that do this are chronic goof offs. They always scramble to cover whatever they're looking at when I come in to talk with them. I am genuinely curious and not trolling you. EDIT: downvotes? Really? This is a very legit question and is producing legit conversation.
- fragsworth 12y ago
  I can't speak for the original commenter, but it seems reasonable to me, because if your monitor is facing away from a wall, there is a constant burden of wondering who might be behind you and what they might think of what is on your screen. And this is when you're doing actual work. When you're not doing work, it makes goofing off on the Internet less of a mental relief, and things are overall more stressful.
  - spiritplumber 12y ago
    Same here. It's important to not feel like someone may hit you in the back of the head with no warning. Admittedly, it's not something that happens in most workplaces... most not all. It's a primal fear kind of thing, and doesn't have to be rational.
    - bcbrown 12y ago
      Yep, pretty much.
  - freehunter 12y ago
    Exactly. Take something like looking at documentation to see if C# uses printf(), print(), or print "". It's 100% work related, but it's kind of embarrassing that I forgot. I don't need my coworkers or boss seeing that.
- thoughtsimple 12y ago
  Having people constantly walking behind you is incredibly distracting. If I have a wall and no chance of anyone behind me, I won't be nearly as distracted. "Typed while goofing off in my cubicle".
  - e40 12y ago
    Having people constantly walking behind you is incredibly distracting. Interesting. I'm exactly the opposite. When I see people walking in front of me it's a total distraction. It makes it almost impossible to concentrate.
    - hga 12y ago
      Indeed; per my other comment in this subthread, if they're known I want them walking behind and to the side of me, but please please not in front, that defeats my "don't pay attention" mental filters.
- hga 12y ago
  One of the most elementary self-defense concepts is that you don't leave your back to a door, the classic US example being Wild Bill Hickok: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_Bill_Hickok#Death_at_Deadwood https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_Bill_Hickok#Death_at_Dead... I personally want everyone behind me to be known, with entries where strangers can come from somewhere in my direct or peripheral vision range. Or a loud enough door that I can hear someone opening it.
- Washuu 12y ago
  I hate the feeling of people behind me and not knowing if someone has come up behind me to stare. Most of it stems from grade school bullying where people would take cheap shots from behind. Yes, this sort of setup is perfect for those that want to goof off. However, that should be easily reflected in productivity reports through a work tracking system such as Pivotal or Jira. If the employee is doing all their assigned tasks within the expected allotted time then all should be fine.
  - hga 12y ago
    "CONSTANT VIGILANCE!!!" Yep, grade school is exactly where I developed a lot of this, plus having a born malicious 6 years younger brother. But I can slot people into "safe" categories and then not worry about them (see my other comments in this subthread). As for "come up behind me to stare", you just have to get in the mindset that they'll be awed by the skills you're displaying ^_^.
- paulornothing 12y ago
  When people can't walk by and see your monitor you definitely rule out people walking by looking at your monitor and striking up conversation about whatever you are currently working on. It's not so much about privacy as it is about getting your work done in peace. A workplace that offered people the option to move into a more communal space when working on projects, but also offered cubicles or offices would be a solution.
- temp-reply 12y ago
  I'll take a crack at this: In college I would always prefer sit in the very back of the lecture hall, back to the wall, even though I knew that real go-getters were supposed to sit in the front. I get really startled if people walk up behind me and try to get my attention, especially if they touch me, my clothing, or my chair. I don't like to be in a space where I can't see who is coming in and out of it, for my own safety as well as to minimize jump-scares. If people coming up behind you while you're all vulnerable and absorbed in thought is something that bothers you, having to work in a space where this is a constant possibility is annoying in the same way that working around high-pitched mechanical background noises or rapidly flickering lights is annoying. It's constant low-level apprehension and stress. When you introduce screens into the equation, as in open office, there's a new annoyance which I guess you might call "violation of intellectual personal space". Have you ever gotten really annoyed that someone was reading your book over your shoulder? Or felt antsy when someone grabbed your laptop to do an internet search? Or had a coworker glance over at your screen when you were deep in thought and say "Hey, what's that?" Computers, books, and notes can feel like extensions one's mind and it's annoying when anybody can come peruse what we're thinking. My monitor is my mind-workspace. I'm happy to have visitors, but not at any old time they feel like strolling through the door! I'm not saying that YOU think this, but your comment brought it to mind: Some people think that by making it so that anyone can see your screen, you're less likely to goof off. (With the logical follow-up: Anyone who wants their back to the wall at work just wants to goof off.) Neither is true, in my anecdotal experience. People in open offices will still goof off, they'll just be more sneaky about it. (Or, there will be a complete breakdown in focus and professionalism, and everyone will goof off in a completely brazen manner.)
  - joshstrange 12y ago
    > I don't like to be in a space where I can't see who is coming in and out of it, for my own safety as well as to minimize jump-scares. This! I am extremely jumpy and I hate being snuck up when I'm deep in thought/in the zone which I am as often as possible. If I notice you approaching me you can probably assume I am between tasks or took a break because when I am programming I have my music turned up and I can't hear people walking up and even my peripheral vision is limited in these situations. I can't tell you how many times someone has walked up next to me and I haven't noticed except for when I turn my head to see my laptop screen (where I keep all my chats) and catch them in the corner of my eye and almost fall out of my chair. I try to not let this affect my level of focus because I really do think that's more important than a few scares a day but if I had my back to a wall then I wouldn't have to worry about it at all.
- dismal2 12y ago
  because it's a natural instinct, your "nothing to hide" type argument can't trump thousands of years of evolution
- ryanelkins 12y ago
  When I worked as a dev I hated having people walking around behind me. I worked at a place where my desk was near a relatively high traffic area so there was a constant stream of people walking past. I find it hard to really concentrate on something with random people walking around or hanging out behind me. It has nothing to do with them looking at my screen even - just knowing someone is standing around behind me can be a little unnerving. I'd much prefer having them in front of me than behind me. It almost feels like a primal survival instinct. When you're concentrating on work you're more vulnerable because you're less aware of your surroundings. It's not like I'm really expecting to be attacked from behind or anything but something deep in my brain is sending up an alarm.
- pastProlog 12y ago
  > why you want your back to the wall. All the people I know that do this are chronic goof offs. "Goof offs" sounds like something a McDonalds manager has to micromanage for amongst his summer hire of local teenagers. I didn't spend four years getting a BSCS, studying compiler internals, graph theory, finite state automata, 1st, 2nd and 3rd normal forms, the fetch/execute cycle etc., plus all my subsequent study, so that my manager can monitor me at any moment to see if I'm "goofing off". Your comment is exactly the reason why I need a desk with my back to the wall. If I walk in on an interview and see I would not have that, I have a suspicion that managers are people with your mentality. I don't want to work at a company with potential goof offs coding elementary PHP and people who police them to make sure they're spending every second pounding out code. I want to do professional work and have the autonomy to do so.
- Crito 12y ago
  Millions of years of my mammalian ancestors being hunted has had an impact on how my brain is wired. I do not like things sneaking up behind me, no matter what I am doing. I know I am not going to be eaten while working in an office building, but that does not stop my brain from sending a surge of adrenaline into my bloodstream when somebody unexpectedly appears behind me. Those adrenaline surges are not conducive to concentration or productivity..
- Fomite 12y ago
  For me, because I work with health information. You need to not be able to casually glance at my screen.
- gatehouse 12y ago
  1. If I'm going to be spending 2000+ plus hours a year in a single physical location it needs to have some privacy and comfort, at an absolute minimum. 2. I'm not willing to be scrutinized by others for exactly how I spend my time. Or how I appear to be spending my time. Goofing off, at least I'm only distracting myself, instead of wandering around distracting others. "Following orders" leads to intellectual heat-death. In the software profession this kills earning power. 3. Many people fail to realize that whatever minor thing they are currently locked on to psychologically is totally inconsequential. I can't have them hovering over me and yammering about it and trying to get me to click/type/open/smell whichever program/website/document/foodstuff has gotten them whipped up in a frenzy. People aren't conscious of boundaries when they're excited and this needs to be defended against physically with doors, desks, and body position. 4. Maybe it helps individual productivity to the detriment of group productivity. When I get a big raise based on group productivity, I'll start to care about it.
- driverdan 12y ago
  I hate glare / screen reflections. I find them very distracting and annoying. The best way to avoid this is having a wall behind you.
nickbauman 12y ago
I rule out companies that have devs working in cube farms or behind closed doors. I can almost always see this is how the company does development by just looking at their code.
- pavel_lishin 12y ago
  What are some tell-tale signs?
- yalogin 12y ago
  Why is having an office for everybody a bad thing? You think the it's a reflection on the culture somehow?
- nickbauman 12y ago
  You can almost see people running in opposite directions and closing their doors behind them sitting at their keyboards coding away in silence. Lots of duplication of code. Writing lame tests after the code is "done", over-compartmentalizing everything, features that aren't specified in any requirements, factories creating factories creating factories. Lots of "Design Patterns", etc. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conway%27s_law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conway%27s_law
joshstrange 12y ago
> I like open offices, but I need my own desk, and my back to a wall. This is huge, I HATE having my back to a opening and one that people are constantly walking by. No I'm not redditing/screwing around at work but I think I deserve some level of privacy. Closing/hiding banking tabs, insurance statements, pay stubs, etc is really taxing and it means that I normally have to switch off my music before doing any of these tasks so that I can hear people approaching and then I forget to turn my music back on and get distracted by conversations/people around me resulting in less work getting done until I can get back in the "zone". I'm also extremely jumpy and strongly dislike being snuck up on (even when it wasn't that person's intention) which is why I want my back to a wall. It definitely drives up my stress levels to be so "exposed". PS: For those of you thinking this helps cut down on goofing off and/or If you need to see my screen to know I'm working then just fire me, I can't/won't work under such conditions.
- bluedino 12y ago
  You can get a screen shield that reduces viewing angles for that kind of stuff. That's what we do for HR/accounting staff who are in open areas.
  - joshstrange 12y ago
    That's a good idea but it would make showing my screen to co-workers more difficult. It would also, no doubt, make me the butt of a number of jokes about "What is Josh doing that's so secretive" to which I would like to reply "None of your fucking business" but we all know I can't/won't. I think what sucks the most is the people ALWAYS making the decisions on how offices are laid out are the same people who have offices so they really don't care about the people in cubes. Note: While I'm not a huge fan of cubicles I don't have a huge issue with them, just how ours are laid out (Large cube with a desk in each corner facing the wall). I can see some advantages but IMHO the privacy issue trumps them all. Again, I want to thank you for your suggestion but I just don't think it will work for me.
    - pc86 12y ago
      I'd argue that what people are doing at work is by definition their coworkers' business.

by bcbrown 12y ago

e40 12y ago

but I need my own desk, and my back to a wall I'm curious why you want your back to the wall. All the people I know that do this are chronic goof offs. They always scramble to cover whatever they're looking at when I come in to talk with them. I am genuinely curious and not trolling you. EDIT: downvotes? Really? This is a very legit question and is producing legit conversation.

fragsworth 12y ago
I can't speak for the original commenter, but it seems reasonable to me, because if your monitor is facing away from a wall, there is a constant burden of wondering who might be behind you and what they might think of what is on your screen. And this is when you're doing actual work. When you're not doing work, it makes goofing off on the Internet less of a mental relief, and things are overall more stressful.
- spiritplumber 12y ago
  Same here. It's important to not feel like someone may hit you in the back of the head with no warning. Admittedly, it's not something that happens in most workplaces... most not all. It's a primal fear kind of thing, and doesn't have to be rational.
  - bcbrown 12y ago
    Yep, pretty much.
- freehunter 12y ago
  Exactly. Take something like looking at documentation to see if C# uses printf(), print(), or print "". It's 100% work related, but it's kind of embarrassing that I forgot. I don't need my coworkers or boss seeing that.
thoughtsimple 12y ago
Having people constantly walking behind you is incredibly distracting. If I have a wall and no chance of anyone behind me, I won't be nearly as distracted. "Typed while goofing off in my cubicle".
- e40 12y ago
  Having people constantly walking behind you is incredibly distracting. Interesting. I'm exactly the opposite. When I see people walking in front of me it's a total distraction. It makes it almost impossible to concentrate.
  - hga 12y ago
    Indeed; per my other comment in this subthread, if they're known I want them walking behind and to the side of me, but please please not in front, that defeats my "don't pay attention" mental filters.
hga 12y ago
One of the most elementary self-defense concepts is that you don't leave your back to a door, the classic US example being Wild Bill Hickok: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_Bill_Hickok#Death_at_Deadwood https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_Bill_Hickok#Death_at_Dead... I personally want everyone behind me to be known, with entries where strangers can come from somewhere in my direct or peripheral vision range. Or a loud enough door that I can hear someone opening it.
Washuu 12y ago
I hate the feeling of people behind me and not knowing if someone has come up behind me to stare. Most of it stems from grade school bullying where people would take cheap shots from behind. Yes, this sort of setup is perfect for those that want to goof off. However, that should be easily reflected in productivity reports through a work tracking system such as Pivotal or Jira. If the employee is doing all their assigned tasks within the expected allotted time then all should be fine.
- hga 12y ago
  "CONSTANT VIGILANCE!!!" Yep, grade school is exactly where I developed a lot of this, plus having a born malicious 6 years younger brother. But I can slot people into "safe" categories and then not worry about them (see my other comments in this subthread). As for "come up behind me to stare", you just have to get in the mindset that they'll be awed by the skills you're displaying ^_^.
paulornothing 12y ago
When people can't walk by and see your monitor you definitely rule out people walking by looking at your monitor and striking up conversation about whatever you are currently working on. It's not so much about privacy as it is about getting your work done in peace. A workplace that offered people the option to move into a more communal space when working on projects, but also offered cubicles or offices would be a solution.
temp-reply 12y ago
I'll take a crack at this: In college I would always prefer sit in the very back of the lecture hall, back to the wall, even though I knew that real go-getters were supposed to sit in the front. I get really startled if people walk up behind me and try to get my attention, especially if they touch me, my clothing, or my chair. I don't like to be in a space where I can't see who is coming in and out of it, for my own safety as well as to minimize jump-scares. If people coming up behind you while you're all vulnerable and absorbed in thought is something that bothers you, having to work in a space where this is a constant possibility is annoying in the same way that working around high-pitched mechanical background noises or rapidly flickering lights is annoying. It's constant low-level apprehension and stress. When you introduce screens into the equation, as in open office, there's a new annoyance which I guess you might call "violation of intellectual personal space". Have you ever gotten really annoyed that someone was reading your book over your shoulder? Or felt antsy when someone grabbed your laptop to do an internet search? Or had a coworker glance over at your screen when you were deep in thought and say "Hey, what's that?" Computers, books, and notes can feel like extensions one's mind and it's annoying when anybody can come peruse what we're thinking. My monitor is my mind-workspace. I'm happy to have visitors, but not at any old time they feel like strolling through the door! I'm not saying that YOU think this, but your comment brought it to mind: Some people think that by making it so that anyone can see your screen, you're less likely to goof off. (With the logical follow-up: Anyone who wants their back to the wall at work just wants to goof off.) Neither is true, in my anecdotal experience. People in open offices will still goof off, they'll just be more sneaky about it. (Or, there will be a complete breakdown in focus and professionalism, and everyone will goof off in a completely brazen manner.)
- joshstrange 12y ago
  > I don't like to be in a space where I can't see who is coming in and out of it, for my own safety as well as to minimize jump-scares. This! I am extremely jumpy and I hate being snuck up when I'm deep in thought/in the zone which I am as often as possible. If I notice you approaching me you can probably assume I am between tasks or took a break because when I am programming I have my music turned up and I can't hear people walking up and even my peripheral vision is limited in these situations. I can't tell you how many times someone has walked up next to me and I haven't noticed except for when I turn my head to see my laptop screen (where I keep all my chats) and catch them in the corner of my eye and almost fall out of my chair. I try to not let this affect my level of focus because I really do think that's more important than a few scares a day but if I had my back to a wall then I wouldn't have to worry about it at all.
dismal2 12y ago
because it's a natural instinct, your "nothing to hide" type argument can't trump thousands of years of evolution
ryanelkins 12y ago
When I worked as a dev I hated having people walking around behind me. I worked at a place where my desk was near a relatively high traffic area so there was a constant stream of people walking past. I find it hard to really concentrate on something with random people walking around or hanging out behind me. It has nothing to do with them looking at my screen even - just knowing someone is standing around behind me can be a little unnerving. I'd much prefer having them in front of me than behind me. It almost feels like a primal survival instinct. When you're concentrating on work you're more vulnerable because you're less aware of your surroundings. It's not like I'm really expecting to be attacked from behind or anything but something deep in my brain is sending up an alarm.
pastProlog 12y ago
> why you want your back to the wall. All the people I know that do this are chronic goof offs. "Goof offs" sounds like something a McDonalds manager has to micromanage for amongst his summer hire of local teenagers. I didn't spend four years getting a BSCS, studying compiler internals, graph theory, finite state automata, 1st, 2nd and 3rd normal forms, the fetch/execute cycle etc., plus all my subsequent study, so that my manager can monitor me at any moment to see if I'm "goofing off". Your comment is exactly the reason why I need a desk with my back to the wall. If I walk in on an interview and see I would not have that, I have a suspicion that managers are people with your mentality. I don't want to work at a company with potential goof offs coding elementary PHP and people who police them to make sure they're spending every second pounding out code. I want to do professional work and have the autonomy to do so.
Crito 12y ago
Millions of years of my mammalian ancestors being hunted has had an impact on how my brain is wired. I do not like things sneaking up behind me, no matter what I am doing. I know I am not going to be eaten while working in an office building, but that does not stop my brain from sending a surge of adrenaline into my bloodstream when somebody unexpectedly appears behind me. Those adrenaline surges are not conducive to concentration or productivity..
Fomite 12y ago
For me, because I work with health information. You need to not be able to casually glance at my screen.
gatehouse 12y ago
1. If I'm going to be spending 2000+ plus hours a year in a single physical location it needs to have some privacy and comfort, at an absolute minimum. 2. I'm not willing to be scrutinized by others for exactly how I spend my time. Or how I appear to be spending my time. Goofing off, at least I'm only distracting myself, instead of wandering around distracting others. "Following orders" leads to intellectual heat-death. In the software profession this kills earning power. 3. Many people fail to realize that whatever minor thing they are currently locked on to psychologically is totally inconsequential. I can't have them hovering over me and yammering about it and trying to get me to click/type/open/smell whichever program/website/document/foodstuff has gotten them whipped up in a frenzy. People aren't conscious of boundaries when they're excited and this needs to be defended against physically with doors, desks, and body position. 4. Maybe it helps individual productivity to the detriment of group productivity. When I get a big raise based on group productivity, I'll start to care about it.
driverdan 12y ago
I hate glare / screen reflections. I find them very distracting and annoying. The best way to avoid this is having a wall behind you.

nickbauman 12y ago

I rule out companies that have devs working in cube farms or behind closed doors. I can almost always see this is how the company does development by just looking at their code.

pavel_lishin 12y ago
What are some tell-tale signs?
yalogin 12y ago
Why is having an office for everybody a bad thing? You think the it's a reflection on the culture somehow?
nickbauman 12y ago
You can almost see people running in opposite directions and closing their doors behind them sitting at their keyboards coding away in silence. Lots of duplication of code. Writing lame tests after the code is "done", over-compartmentalizing everything, features that aren't specified in any requirements, factories creating factories creating factories. Lots of "Design Patterns", etc. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conway%27s_law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conway%27s_law

joshstrange 12y ago

> I like open offices, but I need my own desk, and my back to a wall. This is huge, I HATE having my back to a opening and one that people are constantly walking by. No I'm not redditing/screwing around at work but I think I deserve some level of privacy. Closing/hiding banking tabs, insurance statements, pay stubs, etc is really taxing and it means that I normally have to switch off my music before doing any of these tasks so that I can hear people approaching and then I forget to turn my music back on and get distracted by conversations/people around me resulting in less work getting done until I can get back in the "zone". I'm also extremely jumpy and strongly dislike being snuck up on (even when it wasn't that person's intention) which is why I want my back to a wall. It definitely drives up my stress levels to be so "exposed". PS: For those of you thinking this helps cut down on goofing off and/or If you need to see my screen to know I'm working then just fire me, I can't/won't work under such conditions.

bluedino 12y ago
You can get a screen shield that reduces viewing angles for that kind of stuff. That's what we do for HR/accounting staff who are in open areas.
- joshstrange 12y ago
  That's a good idea but it would make showing my screen to co-workers more difficult. It would also, no doubt, make me the butt of a number of jokes about "What is Josh doing that's so secretive" to which I would like to reply "None of your fucking business" but we all know I can't/won't. I think what sucks the most is the people ALWAYS making the decisions on how offices are laid out are the same people who have offices so they really don't care about the people in cubes. Note: While I'm not a huge fan of cubicles I don't have a huge issue with them, just how ours are laid out (Large cube with a desk in each corner facing the wall). I can see some advantages but IMHO the privacy issue trumps them all. Again, I want to thank you for your suggestion but I just don't think it will work for me.
  - pc86 12y ago
    I'd argue that what people are doing at work is by definition their coworkers' business.