4 ms·

DMCA (Copyright) Complaint to Google

121 points by paralelogram 12y ago

JeremyBanks 12y ago
Who has grounds to sue them in response to this?
- 300bps 12y ago
  Sue schmue, they filed that form stating they owned the rights to the listed items under penalty of perjury. This is no joke, they should be criminally prosecuted.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - andrewaylett 12y ago
    As I understand it, they claim "under penalty of perjury" only that they own their original work; the claim that the links given actually infringe said work has no such penalty. My understanding of the logic: It should be relatively easy to tell whether you hold the copyright in a work, unless weird things have happened (see also: SCO). Working out whether a second work is derivative, and if so whether that's fair use? Harder, and the job of a court. That's why it's also really easy to get work re-instated under the DMCA -- at that point, the DMCA has done its bit, failed, and the regular court system takes over.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
Beached 12y ago
I must be reading this wrong, are they really saying that they have exclusive linux mint, nmap, open office, and all these other products?
- dublinben 12y ago
  They are claiming that those URLs violate their copyright interest in some obscure music album. This is obviously an erroneous DMCA claim, filed either maliciously or by mistake.
  - wongarsu 12y ago
    These kind of things are often due to overly broad or malfunctioning algorithms. Maybe some algorithm just picked up a list of links ending in "download"? Even if that's a mistake, it looks like gross negligence. These URLs aren't even tangentially related to music.
bencollier49 12y ago
Interesting. Is there any indication that any of the sites concerned were delisted for any period of time whatsoever?
- AimHere 12y ago
  dev.mysql.com/downloads/mysql/ seems to still be delisted.
zabcik 12y ago
"Total Wipes Music Group" This has to be a joke.
- ErikBjare 12y ago
  Apparently it isn't. First available request is from May 2014. URLs requested to be removed: 196953. https://www.google.com/transparencyreport/removals/copyright/reporters/40594/Total-Wipes-Music-Group/ https://www.google.com/transparencyreport/removals/copyright...
xfs 12y ago
Google's response: no action for 94 sites, mysql.com link is taken down: https://www.google.com/transparencyreport/removals/copyright/requests/1877373/ https://www.google.com/transparencyreport/removals/copyright...
- wongarsu 12y ago
  Does that mean that Oracle could press charges and/or sue for damages?
  - dangrossman 12y ago
    Probably not. The DMCA provides remedies for notices filed in bad faith, but it'd be hard to prove the music group was acting maliciously rather than stupidly. E.g. "Even if EFF could show that Universal Music acted recklessly or with negligence—that wouldn't be enough." https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20121017/10355320733/why-its-almost-impossible-to-get-punished-bogus-dmca-takedown.shtml https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20121017/10355320733/why-i...
    - pjscott 12y ago
      That sounds like an incentive for these companies to file deliberately nonsensical DMCA complaints, so that they'll always be able to disguise malice as incompetence.
- salibhai 12y ago
  Lol mysql.com was taken down? thats hilarious
Quanttek 12y ago
So far no URL of this list seems blocked from here
BoppreH 12y ago
It reads like the software list from Ninite (https://ninite.com/ https://ninite.com/). Large, dev-oriented free (as in beer) software. And nothing music related as far as I can see. One more point against automatic DMCA complaints.
click170 12y ago
Kind of sounds like some script hashed a "download" icon that's commonly used, and submitted a DMCA takedown claim. Or something along those lines. It's time for some teeth to be added to the DMCA to prevent abuses like this, at a minimum there should be penalties for obviously fraudulent claims like this one. edit: typo
- 300bps 12y ago
  Exactly. If I write a script to find and download open source files available via BitTorrent and my script has a flaw in it that causes me to accidentally download copyrighted material can I just say, "Oops! Faulty script."? Not a chance. I'll still get sued and told that I am responsible for what my script does even if it was unintentional. Why then do copyright holders get a pass for their allegedly faulty scripts where they falsely claim under penalty of perjury that they own something they don't actually own?
  - blfr 12y ago
    can I just say, "Oops! Faulty script."? Yes, probably. IANAL but otherwise no automated crawling service could exist and they clearly do.
  - dangrossman 12y ago
    > Why then do copyright holders get a pass for their allegedly faulty scripts where they falsely claim under penalty of perjury that they own something they don't actually own Among other reasons, because they don't make such a claim under penalty of perjury. The only thing 17 USC 512 actually requires to be "under penalty of perjury" is the statement that you are acting on behalf of a copyright holder. Nothing else in the notice, including the list of alleged infringements, is part of that statement.
    - 300bps 12y ago
      You seem to be parroting the unproven legal arguments of one of the parties to a DMCA lawsuit. The statute is fairly clear in what is required: (vi) A statement that the information in the notification is accurate, and under penalty of perjury, that the complaining party is authorized to act on behalf of the owner of an exclusive right that is allegedly infringed. So if I send a DMCA takedown notice, I am stating under penalty of perjury that I have the right to submit the DMCA takedown for the property allegedly being infringed. It is quite clear. So if you send a DMCA takedown notice for something you don't have the right to - but claim you do - you have committed perjury.
mxfh 12y ago
just look for high rejection rates in the transparency reports: https://www.google.com/transparencyreport/removals/copyright/owners/70463/Aborigeno-Music/ https://www.google.com/transparencyreport/removals/copyright... it's not a singular occasion https://www.chillingeffects.org/notices/10424698 https://www.chillingeffects.org/notices/10424698 https://www.chillingeffects.org/notices/10436220 https://www.chillingeffects.org/notices/10436220
imaginenore 12y ago
Doesn't filing fake DMCA complaint result in criminal charges. Doesn't it also expose you to a civil suit?
- jlward4th 12y ago
  I'm also curious about this. If there is no downside of filing a false DMCA complaint then what prevents someone from causing the receiver a ton of unnecessary work?
dang 12y ago
Arguably a dupe of https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8848544 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8848544.
plorg 12y ago
If I'm reading this[1] correctly, these might be proxied DMCA submissions. Total Wipes Music Group sells software: Total Wipes Anti Piracy is a complete anti-piracy system that allows to you complete control to view, automate and remove illegal contents across cyberlocker, torrents, vk.com, filestube.com and illegal streaming sites whilst searching for your content across over 5 Billion piracy webpages 24/7. Our carefully own created script uses the info you provide to deeply scan a vast range of IP networks, search engines, social sites, and other infringing locations for illegal instances of your content. Following a large group of data, our internal spider's scripts identify all links as valid or not, beginning the removal process. A consistently action of removing illegal instances of your content from all platforms drives higher sales. Protecting your content from illegal and unauthorized use puts copyright control back into your hands. [1] https://www.totalwipesmusicgroup.com/pages/antipiracy https://www.totalwipesmusicgroup.com/pages/antipiracy
vortico 12y ago
The DMCA states it is criminal to send false takedown requests, excusing from mistakes. However "Whoops, I sent a takedown for nothing but open source software!" is not a mistake. It is negligence in writing scripts or a human review process that avoids false takedown requests. If the city "mistakenly forgets" to repair the brakes on its busses, injuring dozens of people, they would of course be liable for the damages.
- tzs 12y ago
  Minor correction. It wasn't nothing but open source software. A few non-open things were in there too.
oliwarner 12y ago
I'm sure it's been said before and I'm sure it'll be said again, but there need to be punative measures. Automatic submissions like this that waste service providers' and uploaders' time and while it might not be malicious, if you file legally binding papers on somebody (like a DMCA) you should have your costs covered if it turns out to be bull. Even an automatic $100 fine per 10 URLs per domain would stop idiots crap like this, and fairly remunerate Google for going through it.

121 points by paralelogram 12y ago

JeremyBanks 12y ago

Who has grounds to sue them in response to this?

300bps 12y ago
Sue schmue, they filed that form stating they owned the rights to the listed items under penalty of perjury. This is no joke, they should be criminally prosecuted.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- andrewaylett 12y ago
  As I understand it, they claim "under penalty of perjury" only that they own their original work; the claim that the links given actually infringe said work has no such penalty. My understanding of the logic: It should be relatively easy to tell whether you hold the copyright in a work, unless weird things have happened (see also: SCO). Working out whether a second work is derivative, and if so whether that's fair use? Harder, and the job of a court. That's why it's also really easy to get work re-instated under the DMCA -- at that point, the DMCA has done its bit, failed, and the regular court system takes over.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]

Beached 12y ago

I must be reading this wrong, are they really saying that they have exclusive linux mint, nmap, open office, and all these other products?

dublinben 12y ago
They are claiming that those URLs violate their copyright interest in some obscure music album. This is obviously an erroneous DMCA claim, filed either maliciously or by mistake.
- wongarsu 12y ago
  These kind of things are often due to overly broad or malfunctioning algorithms. Maybe some algorithm just picked up a list of links ending in "download"? Even if that's a mistake, it looks like gross negligence. These URLs aren't even tangentially related to music.

bencollier49 12y ago

Interesting. Is there any indication that any of the sites concerned were delisted for any period of time whatsoever?

AimHere 12y ago
dev.mysql.com/downloads/mysql/ seems to still be delisted.

zabcik 12y ago

"Total Wipes Music Group" This has to be a joke.

ErikBjare 12y ago
Apparently it isn't. First available request is from May 2014. URLs requested to be removed: 196953. https://www.google.com/transparencyreport/removals/copyright/reporters/40594/Total-Wipes-Music-Group/ https://www.google.com/transparencyreport/removals/copyright...

xfs 12y ago

Google's response: no action for 94 sites, mysql.com link is taken down: https://www.google.com/transparencyreport/removals/copyright/requests/1877373/ https://www.google.com/transparencyreport/removals/copyright...

wongarsu 12y ago
Does that mean that Oracle could press charges and/or sue for damages?
- dangrossman 12y ago
  Probably not. The DMCA provides remedies for notices filed in bad faith, but it'd be hard to prove the music group was acting maliciously rather than stupidly. E.g. "Even if EFF could show that Universal Music acted recklessly or with negligence—that wouldn't be enough." https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20121017/10355320733/why-its-almost-impossible-to-get-punished-bogus-dmca-takedown.shtml https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20121017/10355320733/why-i...
  - pjscott 12y ago
    That sounds like an incentive for these companies to file deliberately nonsensical DMCA complaints, so that they'll always be able to disguise malice as incompetence.
salibhai 12y ago
Lol mysql.com was taken down? thats hilarious

Quanttek 12y ago

So far no URL of this list seems blocked from here

BoppreH 12y ago

It reads like the software list from Ninite (https://ninite.com/ https://ninite.com/). Large, dev-oriented free (as in beer) software. And nothing music related as far as I can see. One more point against automatic DMCA complaints.

click170 12y ago

Kind of sounds like some script hashed a "download" icon that's commonly used, and submitted a DMCA takedown claim. Or something along those lines. It's time for some teeth to be added to the DMCA to prevent abuses like this, at a minimum there should be penalties for obviously fraudulent claims like this one. edit: typo

300bps 12y ago
Exactly. If I write a script to find and download open source files available via BitTorrent and my script has a flaw in it that causes me to accidentally download copyrighted material can I just say, "Oops! Faulty script."? Not a chance. I'll still get sued and told that I am responsible for what my script does even if it was unintentional. Why then do copyright holders get a pass for their allegedly faulty scripts where they falsely claim under penalty of perjury that they own something they don't actually own?
- blfr 12y ago
  can I just say, "Oops! Faulty script."? Yes, probably. IANAL but otherwise no automated crawling service could exist and they clearly do.
- dangrossman 12y ago
  > Why then do copyright holders get a pass for their allegedly faulty scripts where they falsely claim under penalty of perjury that they own something they don't actually own Among other reasons, because they don't make such a claim under penalty of perjury. The only thing 17 USC 512 actually requires to be "under penalty of perjury" is the statement that you are acting on behalf of a copyright holder. Nothing else in the notice, including the list of alleged infringements, is part of that statement.
  - 300bps 12y ago
    You seem to be parroting the unproven legal arguments of one of the parties to a DMCA lawsuit. The statute is fairly clear in what is required: (vi) A statement that the information in the notification is accurate, and under penalty of perjury, that the complaining party is authorized to act on behalf of the owner of an exclusive right that is allegedly infringed. So if I send a DMCA takedown notice, I am stating under penalty of perjury that I have the right to submit the DMCA takedown for the property allegedly being infringed. It is quite clear. So if you send a DMCA takedown notice for something you don't have the right to - but claim you do - you have committed perjury.

mxfh 12y ago

just look for high rejection rates in the transparency reports: https://www.google.com/transparencyreport/removals/copyright/owners/70463/Aborigeno-Music/ https://www.google.com/transparencyreport/removals/copyright... it's not a singular occasion https://www.chillingeffects.org/notices/10424698 https://www.chillingeffects.org/notices/10424698 https://www.chillingeffects.org/notices/10436220 https://www.chillingeffects.org/notices/10436220

imaginenore 12y ago

Doesn't filing fake DMCA complaint result in criminal charges. Doesn't it also expose you to a civil suit?

jlward4th 12y ago
I'm also curious about this. If there is no downside of filing a false DMCA complaint then what prevents someone from causing the receiver a ton of unnecessary work?

dang 12y ago

Arguably a dupe of https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8848544 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8848544.

plorg 12y ago

If I'm reading this[1] correctly, these might be proxied DMCA submissions. Total Wipes Music Group sells software: Total Wipes Anti Piracy is a complete anti-piracy system that allows to you complete control to view, automate and remove illegal contents across cyberlocker, torrents, vk.com, filestube.com and illegal streaming sites whilst searching for your content across over 5 Billion piracy webpages 24/7. Our carefully own created script uses the info you provide to deeply scan a vast range of IP networks, search engines, social sites, and other infringing locations for illegal instances of your content. Following a large group of data, our internal spider's scripts identify all links as valid or not, beginning the removal process. A consistently action of removing illegal instances of your content from all platforms drives higher sales. Protecting your content from illegal and unauthorized use puts copyright control back into your hands. [1] https://www.totalwipesmusicgroup.com/pages/antipiracy https://www.totalwipesmusicgroup.com/pages/antipiracy

vortico 12y ago

The DMCA states it is criminal to send false takedown requests, excusing from mistakes. However "Whoops, I sent a takedown for nothing but open source software!" is not a mistake. It is negligence in writing scripts or a human review process that avoids false takedown requests. If the city "mistakenly forgets" to repair the brakes on its busses, injuring dozens of people, they would of course be liable for the damages.

tzs 12y ago
Minor correction. It wasn't nothing but open source software. A few non-open things were in there too.

oliwarner 12y ago

I'm sure it's been said before and I'm sure it'll be said again, but there need to be punative measures. Automatic submissions like this that waste service providers' and uploaders' time and while it might not be malicious, if you file legally binding papers on somebody (like a DMCA) you should have your costs covered if it turns out to be bull. Even an automatic $100 fine per 10 URLs per domain would stop idiots crap like this, and fairly remunerate Google for going through it.