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Announcement: YC alumni will help us read applications

116 points by pg 17y ago

We've recruited some YC alumni to help us read applications, starting with this cycle. They've agreed to (a) stop reading any application that seems like it will compete with something their startup is doing or plans to, and (b) keep stuff in applications confidential. These are people we know and trust, so we doubt there will be any problems. But since we didn't tell people about this before they applied (we are in fact still organizing it), we're giving anyone who wants to the opportunity to unapply. If you want to have your application deleted, just email me (pg@ycombinator.com). Also, in case anyone didn't know, the deadline for applying is tonight at 10 Pacific. Make sure you actually submit your application, using the submit or resubmit button on http://news.ycombinator.com/apply, or we won't consider it. (If you don't see a submit/resubmit button on that page, it's been submitted.) Every cycle a few people who probably meant to apply forget to actually submit their application after editing it. Edit: Since a lot of people seem to be worried about this, the alumni are reading the applications in addition to us, not instead of us. Our goal is to ensure that we don't overlook promising applications. If we give an application a low rating but it gets high marks from alumni, we'll give it a second look.

ReidReid46 17y ago
Will this, or the extended application deadline, affect Nov. 5th feedback date?
- dsil 17y ago
  I'm guessing they're doing this so they'll be able to keep the Nov.5 date, after seeing a huge increase in the number of apps.
- pg 17y ago
  No, everything else is unchanged.
mrduncan 17y ago
I'm curious about the reasoning for this. Is it purely due to not having the time to read through all of them as thoroughly as you'd like, or to help make sure apps don't fall through the cracks (or none of the above)?
- pg 17y ago
  Both; those are the same problem, since the biggest danger of not being able to read them all thoroughly enough is that a good one slips through the cracks.
  - lloydarmbrust 17y ago
    Will you still be reading all the applications then?
    - pg 17y ago
      Yes, YC partners will still read all the applications.
  - jacquesm 17y ago
    How many application have you received so far, if you don't mind disclosing that ?
    - pg 17y ago
      We don't publish application numbers anymore, lest it tempt competitors into a numbers race. Plus the number now would be pretty meaningless, because half the applicants apply in the last two days.
      - mrduncan 17y ago
        half the applicants apply in the last two days If that doesn't scream out to everyone that applying early is important, I don't know what will.
        boucher 17y ago
        I don't think it says anything about importance. I think if you polled YC alumni, you'd find a healthy number of them applied in the last two days.
jpwagner 17y ago
While I personally don't have a problem with this, I can fathom how some would. What about (1) announcing who is reading and (2) allowing applicants to specify who should NOT read their application. Just a thought, there should probably be some more thought on this kind of privacy/conflict since they will not be investors and I'm assuming you will make this standard procedure.
- pg 17y ago
  I'd rather make the system based on trusting people. Also, paranoia about secrecy is one of our selection criteria. E.g. every cycle there are a few applications that say they won't tell us any details about what they're doing without an NDA. We thereupon instantly hit "next." People who think their startup's success is going to follow from their immensely valuable secret idea are disproportionately likely to have bad ideas. I'm guessing it will be similar in this case, and that anyone who would be freaked out by YC alumni reading their application is probably someone we wouldn't have funded anyway.
  - rokhayakebe 17y ago
    It shouldn't be a problem as long as you select fairly successful YC entrepreneurs who are too busy running their own startup. On the other end if you select someone who has sold out and is relaxing, or someone who's startup is not doing well and is ready to jump ship, then it will create a conflict. EDIT: Either ways you guys review mine. If someone finds it good enough, they would want to work with and not against.
  - SwellJoe 17y ago
    Not to mention that the ability to raise additional money after YC would be significantly impeded by being cagey about the ideas behind the company. Almost every investor I've ever heard speak on the subject has said they simply do not sign NDAs. If someone expects YC to sign an NDA, they would likely expect every other potential investor to sign an NDA...and that's not going to happen. I suspect that investors not being willing to sign NDAs is at least as much attributable to the fact that people who want random people to sign NDAs have too much confidence that their idea alone has value, and thus won't understand that execution is vital, and likely will not be willing to evolve their idea as the market demands. Well, that, and "idea" people are just generally useless and annoying. So, asking for an NDA is a sign that you're a useless non-starter who won't be able to build a company or compete in the market (because your idea has to be public before you can do anything with it; if you're concerned that your only advantage is secrecy, then it seems likely to me that failure is imminent).
davidu 17y ago
Having graded papers in college and worked with a number of professors, peers are often a far harsher critic. Investors also operate in a big picture kind of way and see a horizon that is far larger than operators tend to see. It'll be interesting to see how this adds to the decision-making process for PG. I'd love to see the data (even anonymized) about how the peers review compare to PG and teams reviews.
- cshimmin 17y ago
  I think there's an inversion of your logic about grading papers when applied to investing. Usually grades in college operate on a curve; the peers are harsh because their grade is relative to other students. In this case, it's ycomb that is putting money on the line. Your peer reviewers have nothing to lose by dropping your name into the hat.
staunch 17y ago
Maybe there's a way a limited version of the app could be viewable by the alumni, and only the complete viewable by the YC partners?
- lloydarmbrust 17y ago
  That seems like over optimizing. Setting up a limited app would probably take longer than just having the four YC people read all the apps themselves.
  - staunch 17y ago
    A few of the application's questions could be designated alumni-readable and marked as such.
- riffer 17y ago
  yeah, like maybe filter out answers to ... "What do you understand about your business that other companies in it just don't get?"
JLaramie 17y ago
Thanks for the disclosure, Paul. We look forward to you guys checking out our application for ADstruc!
- deleted 17y ago
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- crystalis 17y ago
  Shameless.
- jack7890 17y ago
  FYI ADstruc, your website is wrong, you aren't the first marketplace of that sort. Check out Tapinko.
  - tlrobinson 17y ago
    Also, images for all the text? Really?
    - JLaramie 17y ago
      We've spent our time focusing on the back end which is building our platform and obviously less on the website. Regardless, the website will be a wash once the product goes beta.
  - JLaramie 17y ago
    We are friends with the Pete and Tapinko and are in talks about both of our businesses - they are focused on newspaper advertising, not outdoor yet.
yurisagalov 17y ago
I think it would be nice/fair to know how much input the Alumni will actually have. Do they give you summaries? recommendations? Do they have the power to completely block applications?
- pg 17y ago
  The goal is to use the alumni as a second set of eyes. The way the software currently works, the alumni say either that they think we should accept an application, or that we shouldn't. So if we notice we're giving a bad rating to an application multiple alumni think we should accept, we'll take a second look, and vice versa.
  - deleted 17y ago
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  - rooshdi 17y ago
    The more sets of eyes the better. Y Combinator is looking for the best startups which fit their criteria, and any review system which results in them funding a higher ratio of startups that benefit real users in the long-term is all that really matters. Lets keep in mind the actual end-users in all of this. If it's not something people want, then it shouldn't have been funded in the first place.
nuweborder 17y ago
I too could see how some applicants would feel uneasy about this decision. Considering these are smart and savvy founders that are not investors in the applicants. Good thing YC is offering the "unapply" option for applicants. For example, the founders of http://www.thesixtyone.com http://www.thesixtyone.com, if they so happen to read my application, a lightbulb may go off in their heads. But as YC has stated, they have agreed to stop reading apps if there is competition. And will keep confidential. Therefore, I will be keeping my application entered. No guts, no glory. Could be looked at as a greater risk has been entered into the equation. But it could actually be a positive thing. I will be taking my chances in aspirations for a strong future partnership with YC.
- SwellJoe 17y ago
  For example, the founders of http://www.thesixtyone.com http://www.thesixtyone.com, if they so happen to read my application, a lightbulb may go off in their heads. Take additional comfort in the knowledge that YC teams are small, and have far more ideas and light bulbs going off in their heads than they have time to implement. Ideas are not in short supply. Time to implement, ability to execute well, ability to connect with markets, and the focus to deliver a compelling product that makes peoples lives better in some small way in a reasonable time frame are. So, even if your idea is brilliant and new, and even if it would help thesixtyone, and even if they saw your application, it's unlikely they would recognize it as a "killer feature" and it's even more unlikely they would have time from their existing product development schedule (which they probably also believe has some "killer features" on it) to implement it in an effective manner.
  - nuweborder 17y ago
    Thanks for the encouragement. We will see the outcome in 6 days. Im confident in my statup, and hopefully YC will see the opportunity as well. We are working hard and creating something special.
jnovek 17y ago
It may be totally irrational, but my gut reaction is, "Some young founder who can't think outside of his or her space is going to read our application and toss it away." Although I think our company will be massively profitable, our proposal is a long way from glamorous.
- gruseom 17y ago
  Everyone with worries like this should (re-)read http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=908612 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=908612. From that comment, it sounds like no alumnus/a will have the power to get your application tossed. In fact, it sounds like the only effect they can have is to get your application a second look, which is something you should want.
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matthodan 17y ago
I'd love for a bunch of the YC founders to review my application-- I feel like I've spent the last several weeks getting every smart person (including YC founders) I could find to read my application. Who knows, maybe one of the YC founders will see something that piques their curiosity. It'd be great if this process generated constructive feedback or a partnership opportunity. A minute or two of mind share from YC founders sounds better to me than 30 seconds from the YC partners.
btilly 17y ago
To me the question boils down to, "Do you trust YC to have the right people reading your application to make a good decision?" I know that they have high enough volume that it makes no sense for pg to make every decision personally. What I just read is, "They have found a way to scale higher and while sticking to high quality people who have direct experience with what you want to do." That makes the answer to the first question a "Yes". :-)
- mikegioia 17y ago
  I think this sums it up best. It comes down to trust and you either trust YC or not. If anything, this is a good litmus test for them.
fjabre 17y ago
Even though fears of a pre-facebook Zuckerberg reading your ideas about a new social networking site are valid it seems to me that this more of an exception than a rule.. but it does seem like a valid concern.. The only other thing I would add is that given the rising popularity of YC it seems only natural that PG and friends would like some qualified help. At any rate, were someone to actually successfully steal your idea, this person would probably be found out and disowned by the community and YC. In other words, there is plenty of incentive for people not to steal.
adrianwaj 17y ago
"They've agreed to (a) stop reading any application that seems like it will compete with something their startup is doing or plans to." You could have an answer-by-answer reveal button, to see who stops reading and when. That'd remove the temptation to break this rule. There could be post-submission round-up by to see if the trust was actually there.
- jwhitlark 17y ago
  Let's not go overboard. I'd much rather pg and co. put their time into reviewing applications than adding "features" like this. This is, at its heart, a social problem, not a technical one, and needs to be addressed as one.
maxklein 17y ago
Does YC not run a risk here of falling into a reinforcement loop where each generation gets more and more "perfect" from the POV of the current generation, leading to highly specialised but unadaptable individuals a few generations down the line?
- thetrumanshow 17y ago
  Yes, they should inject bad genes in the interest of preserving the species.
- deleted 17y ago
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- Alex3917 17y ago
  S-curves usually form in situations where the people doing the selections are trying to impress a third party, e.g. US News & World Report, future dog purchasers, other peahens, etc. Fortunately that shouldn't be a problem here. Also, because YC isn't very bureaucratic it should be relatively easly to design a process that ameliorates this. It's an interesting problem to think about though.
- the_real_r2d2 17y ago
  Adding some randomness could help to avoid over-fitted populations. Then you could prevent to converge to a sub-optimal state and force the system to look beyond of what it seems the best.
  - bravura 17y ago
    I thought mating was the main cause of genetic diversity, not mutation.
    - a-priori 17y ago
      Mutation introduces new alleles, and mating recombines existing alleles. Both processes increase diversity.
- 17y ago
tianaco 17y ago
I feel like this is going to work against me - in a really serious way. First of all, I really liked knowing that I had a one in three chance of a woman, Jessica Livingston, reading my application. I liked how the application felt like a college application; they judge you based upon your potential and what you've done in your circumstances, not like an investor who says: "What experience and traction do you have?". I totally trusted PG, Jessica + TLB to see my potential and tailored my application to the rubric they stated on the website--looking for outstanding "outside of the box" people. Having entrepreneurs, who may not be as used to thinking outside the box of "who is a good founder?" will be more biased towards founders like themselves - i.e. male coders. This comes as a very sad surprise to me. I have a feeling I'm going to be treated as I usually am by the men in technology - which is an outsider. I know that there are VERY FEW female YC founders and I know that having male coders looking at my application is going to totally work against me, if for no other reason than they don't relate to me. [edit: I sincerely apologize that my comment has generated so much heat. I wanted to raise a concern, I'm sorry this got out of hand.]
- bravura 17y ago
  I too am worried about being judged by YC Alumni, much like I worry about being judged by geeks in general. Even though I'm a geek myself (coding for 2/3rd my lifetime, Ph.D. in comp sci, etc.), people usually mistake me for an artist, and that works against me initially. (Later on, when they get to know me, it turns around and they're like: "Oh, it's good you're so well-rounded", but only if I can overcome the initial prejudice.) The YC application reads like they want to judge you based upon your potential and breadth of experience. I focused in my application on showing my diverse background, and how I don't fit into a standard mold. My concern too is that YC Alumni might be subconciously be like: "We look for people who don't fit into a standard mold, but only ones that fit into a certain mold of not fitting into a certain mold."
  - antonovka 17y ago
    I would be interested to hear how you see your art and technology interests converging.
AmericanOP 17y ago
I'd like to hear how you went about training them. That alone is interesting.
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quellhorst 17y ago
It looks like many people are scared of someone stealing their ideas. Startups are not a zero sum game, we can all create wealth. Also, if you are scared someone else will out execute you on your own idea maybe you need work on your execution and dedication.
jnaut 17y ago
Well, this seems like an 11th hour announcement, many of the applicants might not be watching HN at the moment and may not be able to exercise their right to "unapply" before the deadline. But those are problems for the fainthearts who get deterred with this kinda announcement. For the rest of the bravehearts its 'ok', they should feel like they are at day 1 on the market and its all bare now. Just that they should gear up for a much quicker launch in case of a possible rejection, which they anywayz should be - "hope for the best and be prepared for the rest/worst". Let's face it, trustworthiness, bias, plagiarism and wisdom are all human traits. @PG: Just a thought from a novice. This kinda late announcements/disclosure may taint YC's image like those "conditions apply" advertisements. An announcement early on would be better. I hope you are not doing this intentionally as a first filter for the applicants and hence reduce the load of applications automatically.
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gills 17y ago
Cool. It seems that the kind of folks who are scared off by this might be doomed anyway. If you're going to be successful, then at some point you've got to take up the attitude that you're going to eat the competition's lunch - even if they know what you're doing. Because you're just that good. Good luck. (Have not applied. Am not applying. Just a member of the peanut gallery.)
JoeAltmaier 17y ago
More eyes means a more reliable result, so assuming I'm worth funding, then this can only benefit me.
p01nd3xt3r 17y ago
This makes me not want to apply; I guess I am just one of those people with bad ideas that YC would not have wanted to fund anyway.
- p01nd3xt3r 17y ago
  I know this is not a popular opinion its really how I feel. I know lots of geeks and am very familiar with geek / startup culture. One of the coolest things about YC is the fact that there is so much input / guidance from PG. This decision seems like a shift away from that and toward more of a judged by peers model IMHO.
Major_Grooves 17y ago
although some might consider it positive discrimination, you should really get involved with an organisation like: http://www.astia.org/ http://www.astia.org/ They have been great to jlees. In fact she is attending the Silicon Valley event next week.
dusklight 17y ago
1. Is it possible for an application to be rejected after having been read by just one alumni, and no one else? 2. Are the readers given a specific list of criteria by which they are supposed to judge the applications, or is it just basically anything they want? 3. Trust is great, but do you have any way to find out if a reader approves an application because it is from a friend, or if a reader rejects good applications that are too similar to the application that was submitted by a friend?
- pg 17y ago
  No, no, and no.
dtran 17y ago
I actually think that this is a great idea on the condition that PG/JL/TLB/RM still have the majority of the final say. Given the sheer volume of applications, having more eyes can really only help ensure that the most promising startups get the attention they deserve. It also sounds like a great way to pair up new founders with YC alumni who really see the potential in their startup. I know that my co-founder and I personally think that being stealth is overrated/stupid and would love to hear what other smart people think about our idea. Disclosure appreciated.
Major_Grooves 17y ago
This isn't an entirely new thing though is it? I remember some of the YC alum saying they had actually done some phone interviews of YC applicants.
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adw 17y ago
I've got no stake in any of this at all - never applied to YC, doubt I ever will - but something which'd bother me a little: what if a company applied a while back and hasn't seen this HN thread? You can guarantee that at least one set of founders is going to be on holiday. The problem, though, is that I imagine that'd it be really hard, what with the number of applications there'll be, to individually reach out to applicants before making their applications available to anyone other than the partners...
bastian 17y ago
This is a brilliant decision. I attended Startup School this weekend, and used the event and the surrounding parties to pitch our idea to at least 10+ Y-Combinator startups. Every time i pitched our company i learned something new and got great feedback on how to pitch it better next time. Startups that are concerned about this, should realise that to be accepted to Y-Combinator is not the goal of your startup. It is more than everything else a great test for yourself. Are you able to explain your idea in a couple of sentences, do you have a great founding team, is there really a market for what you are building? Trust me, when i remind you that making your company succeed is much harder than filling out the Y-Combinator application form. Having other startups validating your idea is a great way to actually proof your team, competence and idea. We're based in London and despite the fact that we were lucky enough to know a couple of YC startups, that gave us great feedback on our application, we're thrilled to know that our idea, our team and our startup will be reviewed by a couple of other great YC startups. Mark Zuckerberg, probably put it best during his Startup School talk. He told the audience that instead of going for the universities that really wanted to use Facebook, they rolled out Facebook to the universities that seemed the least interested in it. I think this is a brilliant move to test your product. The same applies here. Good luck to everyone!
- JLaramie 17y ago
  Great post, Bastian.
  - bastian 17y ago
    I like your ADstruct concept. Having worked with a couple of out of home media companies, i feel there is definitely space for innovation. If you don't have contacts to European media buyers, fell free to dope me a line.
    - JLaramie 17y ago
      Hey Bastian - I'd love to talk. My email is john@adstruc.com
vivek_ganesh 17y ago
Can you tell us, who they are, if their companies are conflicting, we delete our application.
mikefrancis 17y ago
I'm not so concerned about opening up the reviews to trusted others (after all, if an application is successful it is open to peer review and scrutiny anyway), but I do have a question regarding 'early' submissions (which are described as preferable). Do early submissions get reviewed BEFORE the actual closing date? That's the clear implication from what I've read elsewhere on this thread, because it's stated "there is more time to review early applications" In my case, I submitted (initially) soon after the applications were opened, and have been editing, proof reading, clarifying generally and improving on it, and re-submitting right up to this evening - the evening of the closing date. So there are quite possibly at least 30 different iterations of my application. My first submission was crude, but early. My final submission is probably a factor of 10X better, but two hours before the deadline. So without giving too much away YC, which iteration gets reviewed and when, and how do you know when the submission is final, if you review before the close date?

116 points by pg 17y ago

ReidReid46 17y ago

Will this, or the extended application deadline, affect Nov. 5th feedback date?

dsil 17y ago
I'm guessing they're doing this so they'll be able to keep the Nov.5 date, after seeing a huge increase in the number of apps.
pg 17y ago
No, everything else is unchanged.

mrduncan 17y ago

I'm curious about the reasoning for this. Is it purely due to not having the time to read through all of them as thoroughly as you'd like, or to help make sure apps don't fall through the cracks (or none of the above)?

pg 17y ago
Both; those are the same problem, since the biggest danger of not being able to read them all thoroughly enough is that a good one slips through the cracks.
- lloydarmbrust 17y ago
  Will you still be reading all the applications then?
  - pg 17y ago
    Yes, YC partners will still read all the applications.
- jacquesm 17y ago
  How many application have you received so far, if you don't mind disclosing that ?
  - pg 17y ago
    We don't publish application numbers anymore, lest it tempt competitors into a numbers race. Plus the number now would be pretty meaningless, because half the applicants apply in the last two days.
    - mrduncan 17y ago
      half the applicants apply in the last two days If that doesn't scream out to everyone that applying early is important, I don't know what will.
      - boucher 17y ago
        I don't think it says anything about importance. I think if you polled YC alumni, you'd find a healthy number of them applied in the last two days.

jpwagner 17y ago

While I personally don't have a problem with this, I can fathom how some would. What about (1) announcing who is reading and (2) allowing applicants to specify who should NOT read their application. Just a thought, there should probably be some more thought on this kind of privacy/conflict since they will not be investors and I'm assuming you will make this standard procedure.

pg 17y ago
I'd rather make the system based on trusting people. Also, paranoia about secrecy is one of our selection criteria. E.g. every cycle there are a few applications that say they won't tell us any details about what they're doing without an NDA. We thereupon instantly hit "next." People who think their startup's success is going to follow from their immensely valuable secret idea are disproportionately likely to have bad ideas. I'm guessing it will be similar in this case, and that anyone who would be freaked out by YC alumni reading their application is probably someone we wouldn't have funded anyway.
- rokhayakebe 17y ago
  It shouldn't be a problem as long as you select fairly successful YC entrepreneurs who are too busy running their own startup. On the other end if you select someone who has sold out and is relaxing, or someone who's startup is not doing well and is ready to jump ship, then it will create a conflict. EDIT: Either ways you guys review mine. If someone finds it good enough, they would want to work with and not against.
- SwellJoe 17y ago
  Not to mention that the ability to raise additional money after YC would be significantly impeded by being cagey about the ideas behind the company. Almost every investor I've ever heard speak on the subject has said they simply do not sign NDAs. If someone expects YC to sign an NDA, they would likely expect every other potential investor to sign an NDA...and that's not going to happen. I suspect that investors not being willing to sign NDAs is at least as much attributable to the fact that people who want random people to sign NDAs have too much confidence that their idea alone has value, and thus won't understand that execution is vital, and likely will not be willing to evolve their idea as the market demands. Well, that, and "idea" people are just generally useless and annoying. So, asking for an NDA is a sign that you're a useless non-starter who won't be able to build a company or compete in the market (because your idea has to be public before you can do anything with it; if you're concerned that your only advantage is secrecy, then it seems likely to me that failure is imminent).

davidu 17y ago

Having graded papers in college and worked with a number of professors, peers are often a far harsher critic. Investors also operate in a big picture kind of way and see a horizon that is far larger than operators tend to see. It'll be interesting to see how this adds to the decision-making process for PG. I'd love to see the data (even anonymized) about how the peers review compare to PG and teams reviews.

cshimmin 17y ago
I think there's an inversion of your logic about grading papers when applied to investing. Usually grades in college operate on a curve; the peers are harsh because their grade is relative to other students. In this case, it's ycomb that is putting money on the line. Your peer reviewers have nothing to lose by dropping your name into the hat.

staunch 17y ago

Maybe there's a way a limited version of the app could be viewable by the alumni, and only the complete viewable by the YC partners?

lloydarmbrust 17y ago
That seems like over optimizing. Setting up a limited app would probably take longer than just having the four YC people read all the apps themselves.
- staunch 17y ago
  A few of the application's questions could be designated alumni-readable and marked as such.
riffer 17y ago
yeah, like maybe filter out answers to ... "What do you understand about your business that other companies in it just don't get?"

JLaramie 17y ago

Thanks for the disclosure, Paul. We look forward to you guys checking out our application for ADstruc!

deleted 17y ago
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crystalis 17y ago
Shameless.
jack7890 17y ago
FYI ADstruc, your website is wrong, you aren't the first marketplace of that sort. Check out Tapinko.
- tlrobinson 17y ago
  Also, images for all the text? Really?
  - JLaramie 17y ago
    We've spent our time focusing on the back end which is building our platform and obviously less on the website. Regardless, the website will be a wash once the product goes beta.
- JLaramie 17y ago
  We are friends with the Pete and Tapinko and are in talks about both of our businesses - they are focused on newspaper advertising, not outdoor yet.

yurisagalov 17y ago

I think it would be nice/fair to know how much input the Alumni will actually have. Do they give you summaries? recommendations? Do they have the power to completely block applications?

pg 17y ago
The goal is to use the alumni as a second set of eyes. The way the software currently works, the alumni say either that they think we should accept an application, or that we shouldn't. So if we notice we're giving a bad rating to an application multiple alumni think we should accept, we'll take a second look, and vice versa.
- deleted 17y ago
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- rooshdi 17y ago
  The more sets of eyes the better. Y Combinator is looking for the best startups which fit their criteria, and any review system which results in them funding a higher ratio of startups that benefit real users in the long-term is all that really matters. Lets keep in mind the actual end-users in all of this. If it's not something people want, then it shouldn't have been funded in the first place.

nuweborder 17y ago

I too could see how some applicants would feel uneasy about this decision. Considering these are smart and savvy founders that are not investors in the applicants. Good thing YC is offering the "unapply" option for applicants. For example, the founders of http://www.thesixtyone.com http://www.thesixtyone.com, if they so happen to read my application, a lightbulb may go off in their heads. But as YC has stated, they have agreed to stop reading apps if there is competition. And will keep confidential. Therefore, I will be keeping my application entered. No guts, no glory. Could be looked at as a greater risk has been entered into the equation. But it could actually be a positive thing. I will be taking my chances in aspirations for a strong future partnership with YC.

SwellJoe 17y ago
For example, the founders of http://www.thesixtyone.com http://www.thesixtyone.com, if they so happen to read my application, a lightbulb may go off in their heads. Take additional comfort in the knowledge that YC teams are small, and have far more ideas and light bulbs going off in their heads than they have time to implement. Ideas are not in short supply. Time to implement, ability to execute well, ability to connect with markets, and the focus to deliver a compelling product that makes peoples lives better in some small way in a reasonable time frame are. So, even if your idea is brilliant and new, and even if it would help thesixtyone, and even if they saw your application, it's unlikely they would recognize it as a "killer feature" and it's even more unlikely they would have time from their existing product development schedule (which they probably also believe has some "killer features" on it) to implement it in an effective manner.
- nuweborder 17y ago
  Thanks for the encouragement. We will see the outcome in 6 days. Im confident in my statup, and hopefully YC will see the opportunity as well. We are working hard and creating something special.

jnovek 17y ago

It may be totally irrational, but my gut reaction is, "Some young founder who can't think outside of his or her space is going to read our application and toss it away." Although I think our company will be massively profitable, our proposal is a long way from glamorous.

gruseom 17y ago
Everyone with worries like this should (re-)read http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=908612 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=908612. From that comment, it sounds like no alumnus/a will have the power to get your application tossed. In fact, it sounds like the only effect they can have is to get your application a second look, which is something you should want.

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matthodan 17y ago

I'd love for a bunch of the YC founders to review my application-- I feel like I've spent the last several weeks getting every smart person (including YC founders) I could find to read my application. Who knows, maybe one of the YC founders will see something that piques their curiosity. It'd be great if this process generated constructive feedback or a partnership opportunity. A minute or two of mind share from YC founders sounds better to me than 30 seconds from the YC partners.

btilly 17y ago

To me the question boils down to, "Do you trust YC to have the right people reading your application to make a good decision?" I know that they have high enough volume that it makes no sense for pg to make every decision personally. What I just read is, "They have found a way to scale higher and while sticking to high quality people who have direct experience with what you want to do." That makes the answer to the first question a "Yes". :-)

mikegioia 17y ago
I think this sums it up best. It comes down to trust and you either trust YC or not. If anything, this is a good litmus test for them.

fjabre 17y ago

Even though fears of a pre-facebook Zuckerberg reading your ideas about a new social networking site are valid it seems to me that this more of an exception than a rule.. but it does seem like a valid concern.. The only other thing I would add is that given the rising popularity of YC it seems only natural that PG and friends would like some qualified help. At any rate, were someone to actually successfully steal your idea, this person would probably be found out and disowned by the community and YC. In other words, there is plenty of incentive for people not to steal.

adrianwaj 17y ago

"They've agreed to (a) stop reading any application that seems like it will compete with something their startup is doing or plans to." You could have an answer-by-answer reveal button, to see who stops reading and when. That'd remove the temptation to break this rule. There could be post-submission round-up by to see if the trust was actually there.

jwhitlark 17y ago
Let's not go overboard. I'd much rather pg and co. put their time into reviewing applications than adding "features" like this. This is, at its heart, a social problem, not a technical one, and needs to be addressed as one.

maxklein 17y ago

Does YC not run a risk here of falling into a reinforcement loop where each generation gets more and more "perfect" from the POV of the current generation, leading to highly specialised but unadaptable individuals a few generations down the line?

thetrumanshow 17y ago
Yes, they should inject bad genes in the interest of preserving the species.
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Alex3917 17y ago
S-curves usually form in situations where the people doing the selections are trying to impress a third party, e.g. US News & World Report, future dog purchasers, other peahens, etc. Fortunately that shouldn't be a problem here. Also, because YC isn't very bureaucratic it should be relatively easly to design a process that ameliorates this. It's an interesting problem to think about though.
the_real_r2d2 17y ago
Adding some randomness could help to avoid over-fitted populations. Then you could prevent to converge to a sub-optimal state and force the system to look beyond of what it seems the best.
- bravura 17y ago
  I thought mating was the main cause of genetic diversity, not mutation.
  - a-priori 17y ago
    Mutation introduces new alleles, and mating recombines existing alleles. Both processes increase diversity.
17y ago

tianaco 17y ago

I feel like this is going to work against me - in a really serious way. First of all, I really liked knowing that I had a one in three chance of a woman, Jessica Livingston, reading my application. I liked how the application felt like a college application; they judge you based upon your potential and what you've done in your circumstances, not like an investor who says: "What experience and traction do you have?". I totally trusted PG, Jessica + TLB to see my potential and tailored my application to the rubric they stated on the website--looking for outstanding "outside of the box" people. Having entrepreneurs, who may not be as used to thinking outside the box of "who is a good founder?" will be more biased towards founders like themselves - i.e. male coders. This comes as a very sad surprise to me. I have a feeling I'm going to be treated as I usually am by the men in technology - which is an outsider. I know that there are VERY FEW female YC founders and I know that having male coders looking at my application is going to totally work against me, if for no other reason than they don't relate to me. [edit: I sincerely apologize that my comment has generated so much heat. I wanted to raise a concern, I'm sorry this got out of hand.]

bravura 17y ago
I too am worried about being judged by YC Alumni, much like I worry about being judged by geeks in general. Even though I'm a geek myself (coding for 2/3rd my lifetime, Ph.D. in comp sci, etc.), people usually mistake me for an artist, and that works against me initially. (Later on, when they get to know me, it turns around and they're like: "Oh, it's good you're so well-rounded", but only if I can overcome the initial prejudice.) The YC application reads like they want to judge you based upon your potential and breadth of experience. I focused in my application on showing my diverse background, and how I don't fit into a standard mold. My concern too is that YC Alumni might be subconciously be like: "We look for people who don't fit into a standard mold, but only ones that fit into a certain mold of not fitting into a certain mold."
- antonovka 17y ago
  I would be interested to hear how you see your art and technology interests converging.

AmericanOP 17y ago

I'd like to hear how you went about training them. That alone is interesting.

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quellhorst 17y ago

It looks like many people are scared of someone stealing their ideas. Startups are not a zero sum game, we can all create wealth. Also, if you are scared someone else will out execute you on your own idea maybe you need work on your execution and dedication.

jnaut 17y ago

Well, this seems like an 11th hour announcement, many of the applicants might not be watching HN at the moment and may not be able to exercise their right to "unapply" before the deadline. But those are problems for the fainthearts who get deterred with this kinda announcement. For the rest of the bravehearts its 'ok', they should feel like they are at day 1 on the market and its all bare now. Just that they should gear up for a much quicker launch in case of a possible rejection, which they anywayz should be - "hope for the best and be prepared for the rest/worst". Let's face it, trustworthiness, bias, plagiarism and wisdom are all human traits. @PG: Just a thought from a novice. This kinda late announcements/disclosure may taint YC's image like those "conditions apply" advertisements. An announcement early on would be better. I hope you are not doing this intentionally as a first filter for the applicants and hence reduce the load of applications automatically.

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gills 17y ago

Cool. It seems that the kind of folks who are scared off by this might be doomed anyway. If you're going to be successful, then at some point you've got to take up the attitude that you're going to eat the competition's lunch - even if they know what you're doing. Because you're just that good. Good luck. (Have not applied. Am not applying. Just a member of the peanut gallery.)

JoeAltmaier 17y ago

More eyes means a more reliable result, so assuming I'm worth funding, then this can only benefit me.

p01nd3xt3r 17y ago

This makes me not want to apply; I guess I am just one of those people with bad ideas that YC would not have wanted to fund anyway.

p01nd3xt3r 17y ago
I know this is not a popular opinion its really how I feel. I know lots of geeks and am very familiar with geek / startup culture. One of the coolest things about YC is the fact that there is so much input / guidance from PG. This decision seems like a shift away from that and toward more of a judged by peers model IMHO.

Major_Grooves 17y ago

although some might consider it positive discrimination, you should really get involved with an organisation like: http://www.astia.org/ http://www.astia.org/ They have been great to jlees. In fact she is attending the Silicon Valley event next week.

dusklight 17y ago

1. Is it possible for an application to be rejected after having been read by just one alumni, and no one else? 2. Are the readers given a specific list of criteria by which they are supposed to judge the applications, or is it just basically anything they want? 3. Trust is great, but do you have any way to find out if a reader approves an application because it is from a friend, or if a reader rejects good applications that are too similar to the application that was submitted by a friend?

pg 17y ago
No, no, and no.

dtran 17y ago

I actually think that this is a great idea on the condition that PG/JL/TLB/RM still have the majority of the final say. Given the sheer volume of applications, having more eyes can really only help ensure that the most promising startups get the attention they deserve. It also sounds like a great way to pair up new founders with YC alumni who really see the potential in their startup. I know that my co-founder and I personally think that being stealth is overrated/stupid and would love to hear what other smart people think about our idea. Disclosure appreciated.

Major_Grooves 17y ago

This isn't an entirely new thing though is it? I remember some of the YC alum saying they had actually done some phone interviews of YC applicants.

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adw 17y ago

I've got no stake in any of this at all - never applied to YC, doubt I ever will - but something which'd bother me a little: what if a company applied a while back and hasn't seen this HN thread? You can guarantee that at least one set of founders is going to be on holiday. The problem, though, is that I imagine that'd it be really hard, what with the number of applications there'll be, to individually reach out to applicants before making their applications available to anyone other than the partners...

bastian 17y ago

This is a brilliant decision. I attended Startup School this weekend, and used the event and the surrounding parties to pitch our idea to at least 10+ Y-Combinator startups. Every time i pitched our company i learned something new and got great feedback on how to pitch it better next time. Startups that are concerned about this, should realise that to be accepted to Y-Combinator is not the goal of your startup. It is more than everything else a great test for yourself. Are you able to explain your idea in a couple of sentences, do you have a great founding team, is there really a market for what you are building? Trust me, when i remind you that making your company succeed is much harder than filling out the Y-Combinator application form. Having other startups validating your idea is a great way to actually proof your team, competence and idea. We're based in London and despite the fact that we were lucky enough to know a couple of YC startups, that gave us great feedback on our application, we're thrilled to know that our idea, our team and our startup will be reviewed by a couple of other great YC startups. Mark Zuckerberg, probably put it best during his Startup School talk. He told the audience that instead of going for the universities that really wanted to use Facebook, they rolled out Facebook to the universities that seemed the least interested in it. I think this is a brilliant move to test your product. The same applies here. Good luck to everyone!

JLaramie 17y ago
Great post, Bastian.
- bastian 17y ago
  I like your ADstruct concept. Having worked with a couple of out of home media companies, i feel there is definitely space for innovation. If you don't have contacts to European media buyers, fell free to dope me a line.
  - JLaramie 17y ago
    Hey Bastian - I'd love to talk. My email is john@adstruc.com

vivek_ganesh 17y ago

Can you tell us, who they are, if their companies are conflicting, we delete our application.

mikefrancis 17y ago

I'm not so concerned about opening up the reviews to trusted others (after all, if an application is successful it is open to peer review and scrutiny anyway), but I do have a question regarding 'early' submissions (which are described as preferable). Do early submissions get reviewed BEFORE the actual closing date? That's the clear implication from what I've read elsewhere on this thread, because it's stated "there is more time to review early applications" In my case, I submitted (initially) soon after the applications were opened, and have been editing, proof reading, clarifying generally and improving on it, and re-submitting right up to this evening - the evening of the closing date. So there are quite possibly at least 30 different iterations of my application. My first submission was crude, but early. My final submission is probably a factor of 10X better, but two hours before the deadline. So without giving too much away YC, which iteration gets reviewed and when, and how do you know when the submission is final, if you review before the close date?