4 ms·

Crapware – Satya Nadella needs to sort this crap out. It's not good for Windows.

17 points by hoodoof 12y ago

One of the reasons to buy a Mac is that a Mac is a Mac is a Mac. OSX is always the same. Windows resellers however "improve" Windows buy loading all sorts of garbage. Satya Nadella is fixing alot of stuff. One more thing for him to fix is to ensure that Windows is not modified and that the Windows experience is not tarnished by any sort of crapware - including but not limited to spyware like SuperFish.

yzzxy 12y ago
Good luck. That crapware is often there, as I understand it, to offset the cost of an OEM Windows licence. So unless he wants to give it Windows out for free, he'd basically be telling PC manufacturers to delete their profit margin. With the number of business model changes MS is making this could be possible, I honestly don't know the state of the company well enough to judge if that's ridiculous.
RankingMember 12y ago
I don't disagree that it's a good idea, but Apple has an advantage here in that they make their OS for their own hardware, and therefore don't have to pay an extra dime for each copy. Hardware manufacturers have to recoup license fees. It's a similar situation in the smartphone market. I don't doubt that most would prefer "pure Android" if given the choice.
PhantomGremlin 12y ago
Didn't I see a comment in another related thread that said that, for antitrust reasons, Microsoft wasn't able to prevent OEMs from modifying Windows? Recall that Microsoft tried to keep OEMs from preloading Netscape and consequently got sued by the US government. There's no way Microsoft wants to reopen that can of demons.
quesera 12y ago
I'm confident that many PC manufacturers would be happy to remove the crapware themselves, if they could find customers who would pay extra to offset the revenue they'd lose. Their margins are so thin that crapware keeps them in business. And since the hardware and (windows) software is commoditized, they compete with very few points of differentiation. Build quality, fit and finish, battery life? Those customers go to Apple, by and large. And never come back. And this is why Apple will never license OSX. Why they'll never sell it to you to run on a hackintosh or a non-Apple host VM. They literally cannot afford to. Consumer Windows will never escape the swamp unless Nadella changes the licensing restrictions, thereby raising the price of all Windows machines across the board. I really hope this happens -- but I'm not sure he's brave enough. There might also be legal fallout. Windows Signature Edition (seriously?!) is available today, if you are willing to go out of your way, but it is not a mass-market product.
- smacktoward 12y ago
  > I'm confident that many PC manufacturers would be happy to remove the crapware themselves, if they could find customers who would pay extra to offset the revenue they'd lose. Which is exactly why only Microsoft can solve the problem. When it's up to the OEMs, if even one OEM chooses to keep the crapware, they can undercut the others on price and eat their lunch. So the others are forced by market pressure to bundle crapware too, in order to get their prices down to the same level. If any one OEM tried to break the cycle, they'd just get clobbered by the market for having higher prices. It's a classic race-to-the-bottom scenario. The only thing that can break the cycle is if the choice is taken away from the OEMs entirely. Then no one bad OEM can start the cycle over again. But only Microsoft (well, Microsoft or the government) is in a position to do that.
insoluble 12y ago
This concern is presumably one of the main reasons why Microsoft introduced "Windows Refresh" in Windows 8 and higher. One problem is that not everyone is aware of this new feature.
api 12y ago
Bonus points for doing it by fixing OS permission models instead of just implementing walled gardens through mandatory code signing. Not likely though. The latter is far, far easier.

17 points by hoodoof 12y ago

yzzxy 12y ago

Good luck. That crapware is often there, as I understand it, to offset the cost of an OEM Windows licence. So unless he wants to give it Windows out for free, he'd basically be telling PC manufacturers to delete their profit margin. With the number of business model changes MS is making this could be possible, I honestly don't know the state of the company well enough to judge if that's ridiculous.

RankingMember 12y ago

I don't disagree that it's a good idea, but Apple has an advantage here in that they make their OS for their own hardware, and therefore don't have to pay an extra dime for each copy. Hardware manufacturers have to recoup license fees. It's a similar situation in the smartphone market. I don't doubt that most would prefer "pure Android" if given the choice.

PhantomGremlin 12y ago

Didn't I see a comment in another related thread that said that, for antitrust reasons, Microsoft wasn't able to prevent OEMs from modifying Windows? Recall that Microsoft tried to keep OEMs from preloading Netscape and consequently got sued by the US government. There's no way Microsoft wants to reopen that can of demons.

quesera 12y ago

I'm confident that many PC manufacturers would be happy to remove the crapware themselves, if they could find customers who would pay extra to offset the revenue they'd lose. Their margins are so thin that crapware keeps them in business. And since the hardware and (windows) software is commoditized, they compete with very few points of differentiation. Build quality, fit and finish, battery life? Those customers go to Apple, by and large. And never come back. And this is why Apple will never license OSX. Why they'll never sell it to you to run on a hackintosh or a non-Apple host VM. They literally cannot afford to. Consumer Windows will never escape the swamp unless Nadella changes the licensing restrictions, thereby raising the price of all Windows machines across the board. I really hope this happens -- but I'm not sure he's brave enough. There might also be legal fallout. Windows Signature Edition (seriously?!) is available today, if you are willing to go out of your way, but it is not a mass-market product.

smacktoward 12y ago
> I'm confident that many PC manufacturers would be happy to remove the crapware themselves, if they could find customers who would pay extra to offset the revenue they'd lose. Which is exactly why only Microsoft can solve the problem. When it's up to the OEMs, if even one OEM chooses to keep the crapware, they can undercut the others on price and eat their lunch. So the others are forced by market pressure to bundle crapware too, in order to get their prices down to the same level. If any one OEM tried to break the cycle, they'd just get clobbered by the market for having higher prices. It's a classic race-to-the-bottom scenario. The only thing that can break the cycle is if the choice is taken away from the OEMs entirely. Then no one bad OEM can start the cycle over again. But only Microsoft (well, Microsoft or the government) is in a position to do that.

insoluble 12y ago

This concern is presumably one of the main reasons why Microsoft introduced "Windows Refresh" in Windows 8 and higher. One problem is that not everyone is aware of this new feature.

api 12y ago

Bonus points for doing it by fixing OS permission models instead of just implementing walled gardens through mandatory code signing. Not likely though. The latter is far, far easier.