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That brings us to Ukraine, and Russia vs. US (again). What is the global context to that? Where is the point there? I know it started with the Eurasian Econom

by aluhut 12y ago

That brings us to Ukraine, and Russia vs. US (again). What is the global context to that? Where is the point there? I know it started with the Eurasian Economic Union vs. the Ukraine–European Union Association Agreement but from what I've heard the EEU is not really worth it and Belarus is not very sure about it anymore. Was that really enough to start the whole show? I mean, Putin can't get out of it now. He's too deep in his own propaganda. While the EU seems to want to get back to calmer times, Obama waits with the fuel tank around the corner reminding the EU and Putin of the fact from time to time. But...what is this supposed to be? A new Cold War show? Really...??

olegious 12y ago
Ukraine is caught in the middle of the competition between Russia and the USA. For the US, it isn't about democracy, it is about bringing NATO to Russia's borders. Russia is terrified of NATO (the 2008 war in Georgia was basically the preview of Ukraine).
- aluhut 12y ago
  But they are already at Russia's borders. Since 1999!
  - throwaway344 12y ago
    The US isn't at Russia's borders — Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia and all the rest are. Their freely elected democratic goverments decided that aliging with the US was a good idea.
    - aluhut 12y ago
      Well, NATO and the US on themselves are at the border at least with Poland. I guess discussions with the rest would be quick with any kind of "movement" there.
- adventured 12y ago
  More than being terrified of NATO (it's not), Russia wants to retain a very high degree of control over its former satellites if it can. Including specifically Belarus, Kazakhstan, Moldova, Georgia, and Ukraine. Russia influences those countries practically as proxies as though they still belong to the old empire. Russia fears losing that control, it doesn't fear the NATO military alliance. I think it's a lot more afraid of trade ties with Western Europe and culturally changes that drive political changes.
  - aluhut 12y ago
    Yes, I guess this is it and we probably crossed the line now. I'm curious how this will end if everybody wants to save their faces.
bduerst 12y ago
It has more to with U.S. imperialism through it's ally, NATO, than anything else. The larger the reach, the more influence they have to turn economic flows their way. In a post-nuclear world, there are a lot of puppet wars backed by superpowers. China vs. U.S. (Korea), U.S. vs. Russia (Iran/Israel), etc. Recently Syria has become a U.S. (rebels) vs. Russia (Assad) affair, probably to stop the Iran-Irag-Syria pipeline, which would benefit Russia. Russia has grabbed Crimea from Ukraine, partly because of the resources there but also because Ukraine is not a member of NATO or EU (even though it was moving in that direction).

by aluhut 12y ago

olegious 12y ago

Ukraine is caught in the middle of the competition between Russia and the USA. For the US, it isn't about democracy, it is about bringing NATO to Russia's borders. Russia is terrified of NATO (the 2008 war in Georgia was basically the preview of Ukraine).

aluhut 12y ago
But they are already at Russia's borders. Since 1999!
- throwaway344 12y ago
  The US isn't at Russia's borders — Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia and all the rest are. Their freely elected democratic goverments decided that aliging with the US was a good idea.
  - aluhut 12y ago
    Well, NATO and the US on themselves are at the border at least with Poland. I guess discussions with the rest would be quick with any kind of "movement" there.
adventured 12y ago
More than being terrified of NATO (it's not), Russia wants to retain a very high degree of control over its former satellites if it can. Including specifically Belarus, Kazakhstan, Moldova, Georgia, and Ukraine. Russia influences those countries practically as proxies as though they still belong to the old empire. Russia fears losing that control, it doesn't fear the NATO military alliance. I think it's a lot more afraid of trade ties with Western Europe and culturally changes that drive political changes.
- aluhut 12y ago
  Yes, I guess this is it and we probably crossed the line now. I'm curious how this will end if everybody wants to save their faces.

bduerst 12y ago

It has more to with U.S. imperialism through it's ally, NATO, than anything else. The larger the reach, the more influence they have to turn economic flows their way. In a post-nuclear world, there are a lot of puppet wars backed by superpowers. China vs. U.S. (Korea), U.S. vs. Russia (Iran/Israel), etc. Recently Syria has become a U.S. (rebels) vs. Russia (Assad) affair, probably to stop the Iran-Irag-Syria pipeline, which would benefit Russia. Russia has grabbed Crimea from Ukraine, partly because of the resources there but also because Ukraine is not a member of NATO or EU (even though it was moving in that direction).