6 ms·

I regularly have several hundred tabs open in Firefox with no problems. Some people may think this is crazy or messy but I find it very useful for organizing th

I regularly have several hundred tabs open in Firefox with no problems. Some people may think this is crazy or messy but I find it very useful for organizing the various projects I'm working on for different clients and my own personal projects. Tab groups and delayed loading make it all very smooth. Such usage is just not possible with Chrome. I tried to switch to Chrome but couldn't find the features I needed and did not wish to change my workflow. Back when Chrome came out Firefox was buggy. Since then it has become much more stable. Chrome is the one that's buggy now. One process per tab means that a bug in one tab does not take down the whole browser but it is much better to just fix the bugs and not crash at all.

yellowapple 12y ago
I do the same thing; it's incredibly easy to do with the Tree View Tabs extension. For example, while browsing HN, I'll frequently just middle-click a bunch of article links and (occasionally) their comments, then read them once I have a sizable queue. Same goes for trying to look up documentation to fix some bug in my code; I'll start with a DuckDuckGo search and, suddenly, I have at least a dozen (sometimes multiple dozens) tabs open with Stack Overflow questions and blog posts and official online docs and such with clues pointing me in the right direction.
- tonetheman 12y ago
  What is the name of that extension? I searched and get over a thousand results. Thanks!
  - andrewflnr 12y ago
    "Tree Style Tab". http://piro.sakura.ne.jp/xul/_treestyletab.html.en http://piro.sakura.ne.jp/xul/_treestyletab.html.en At least that's the one I use.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - yellowapple 12y ago
    Search DuckDuckGo for "Tree Style Tabs"; it should be the first result. It should also be the first result if you search Mozilla's add-on marketplace thingamajig for "Tree Style Tabs". Here's the link for convenience: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/tree-style-tab/?src=search https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/tree-style-ta...
crimsonalucard 12y ago
For me I keep tabs open in case I need to go back later. This works except I only end up reusing 20% of the tabs that I opened. What would be awesome is some sort of auto tab closer that assumes you'll never use the tab again after 15 minutes of idle time.
- dbjacobs 12y ago
  For Chrome look at Tab Wrangler, it does this for you.
- c3o 12y ago
  The Great Suspender will remove the tab's contents from memory after a freely configurable time, while still keeping it where it was in case you want to get back to it later. I've found that this works best for me: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/the-great-suspender/klbibkeccnjlkjkiokjodocebajanakg?hl=en https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/the-great-suspende...
sliverstorm 12y ago
I use tabs-as-history and tabs-as-queue, but (despite the initial effort hump) I find bookmarks are better for cold storage.
zetafunction 12y ago
As a Chrome developer, I agree that process-per-tab absolutely should not be a replacement for fixing bugs. However, I think it's important to point out that process-per-tab is not just for stability: it's also critical for security.
- scobar 12y ago
  I found your statement very interesting, and would like to learn more. If you're allowed, would you please provide more details or links to resources that further explain the security issues that process-per-tab resolves?
  - geofft 12y ago
    There's a bunch of good public docs on the Chromium security architecture. One big thing that having a separate process per origin does is that you can use OS sandboxing techniques on each process separately, and even if there are renderer bugs, an exploit can't immediately get to another origin; it provides defense in depth by also requiring a sandbox escape. Here's an old paper that talks about the architecture (it hasn't changed much at a high level): http://seclab.stanford.edu/websec/chromium/chromium-security-architecture.pdf http://seclab.stanford.edu/websec/chromium/chromium-security...
- dmix 12y ago
  Chrome is way ahead of Firefox in terms of security. It's worth the performance trade-offs. Each website is rendered in a separate process with a sandbox, each with an empty chroot + process namespace + network namespace + tiny seccomp-bpf + syscall whitelist. Chrome also has a stronger sandbox, pioneers better SSL, supports PIE on binaries, uses pepper - doesnt use native Flash plugins, the JIT compiler does randomization / encryption tricks to make it hard to heap spray exploit code. They have their own hardened memory allocator called PartitionAlloc. Etc Etc. Firefox also had more critical CVEs in 2014 than Chrome: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=2CRyJkmV http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=2CRyJkmV And reports of sandbox escapes are less common in Chrome for a reason.
  - 12y ago
soperj 12y ago
I have a whack of tabs open all the time as well, and if I do it in Chrome it just kills my battery where as in firefox it doesn't. (on fedora 20)
- scholia 12y ago
  Running down the battery is a well known feature of Chrome on on Windows https://randomascii.wordpress.com/2013/07/08/windows-timer-resolution-megawatts-wasted/ https://randomascii.wordpress.com/2013/07/08/windows-timer-r...
benjaminpv 12y ago
I find that over time I end up with a bunch of tabs whose content seems interesting that grow over time. My working set is off to one side while the 'to read' tabs stack up over to the left. I'd found a big boon for this workflow in the very simple extension "Export Tabs[1]." It's really simple: click an icon on the toolbar and it lists open tabs by title and then by URL. Now when I notice that I've got a real glut of tabs open I dump them into my bookmark software so I can comb through later. Like I said, really simple extension but tremendously helpful. [1]: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/export-tabs/odafagokkafdbbeojliiojjmimakacil?hl=en https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/export-tabs/odafag...
- zzleeper 12y ago
  That's amazing! Much easier than managing the mess that is chrome bookmark manager, when you just want to save something for a while and not forever.
- sergiosgc 12y ago
  I'm old school. My to-read queue goes off to del.icio.us. After all the switches and selling and buying, in the end, it's not half bad. Bookmarklets plus droidicious on Android and I have a dependable bookmark store.
- jannes 12y ago
  I just released a similar Chrome extension called TabAttack[1]. I would love to hear what you think of it. [1]: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/tabattack/ginflokhdahakklidfjlogllkkhokidj https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/tabattack/ginflokh... Instead of exporting tabs as plain text it exports them as Markdown. And it allows you to download the resulting document with one click as a *.md file, instead of having to copy and paste it in an editor. It also uses the screen real estate in the toolbar a little bit more usefully by showing a tab counter (similar to what Chrome does on mobile). And of course there are keyboard shortcuts for everything. Here is my Show HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9047945 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9047945
- scholia 12y ago
  In Firefox you can just put them into groups, so they stop being tabs. Later, you can open a whole group when you need it. It's much more organized...
Touche 12y ago
https://pinboard.in https://pinboard.in
GrinningFool 12y ago
I find this essentially when I run high numbers of tabs: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/tree-style-tab/?src=search https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/tree-style-ta... Though another comment has led me to wonder if FF doesn't have something similar built-in.
- keypusher 12y ago
  Tree Style Tabs is essential if you keep many tabs open. Not only does it make it possible to read the window titles and use screen real estate more effectively, it facilitates tab hierachies (parent page A opened links to B, C, D, parent page B opened links to E, F, G, etc).
  - rndn 12y ago
    There is a very simple extension called Tab Counter which works very well together with TSTs and it helps to remind me when it's time to clean up the tab bar. It also appears to bring peace of mind that all tabs are still there, it's just the missing status bar. :)
- wldcordeiro 12y ago
  Between Tree Style Tabs and The Fox Only Better[0] I can't see myself going to Chrome or any other browser. The UI is pretty much hidden until I need it, giving me maximum browsing space. [0] https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/the-fox-only-better/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/the-fox-only-...
  - danneu 12y ago
    Thanks, just installed The Fox Only Better which restored Vimperator to its former glory. That url bar was painful. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/spa/quq37nq1583x0lf/u_g2cx0h.png https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/spa/quq37nq1583x0lf/u_g2cx...
  - GrinningFool 12y ago
    Thanks for that, TFoB is promising so far, though it seems to notch up CPU usage.
wutbrodo 12y ago
> Such usage is just not possible with Chrome. In your opinion, what makes this "impossible"? I also use a few hundred tabs at any one time (also to the consternation of everyone who sees any _one_ of the Chrome windows I have open) and I'm very happy with Chrome.
- scholia 12y ago
  How do you see which tab is which? (I gave up on Chrome about 20 months ago for Firefox's superior tab handling, better stability, and being less of a resource hog. Oh, and for not spying on me.)
  - detaro 12y ago
    Not GP, but: multiple windows and intuition. Generally, for ~20 tabs per window I still can tell pretty okay what is what, only large swabs of similar tabs (e.g. 10 ebay product sites) are a bit annoying. A tab switcher that shows the headlines would admittedly be helpful.
    - scholia 12y ago
      In Firefox, I either scroll quickly though readable tabs with the mouse-wheel, or click the right down-arrow for a text list of tabs, or start typing in the address bar of whichever tab I'm in. For example, if I type twi then the drop-down list offers Twitter, and I select "Switch to tab". That gets me to the half-dozen tabs I want to look at several times a day. With those options plus tab groups, I find it pretty easy to handle several hundred tabs in Firefox, where Chrome was a nightmare. The drawback is that you just keep adding tabs ;-)
  - wutbrodo 12y ago
    I use an extension called switch to tab. It uses the omnibox interface to auto complete what you type and switch to the right tab. (and when I'm switching back and forth multiple times between two tabs, I just have muscle memory for how many tabs apart they are). What are you referring to specifically with the "spying on you" claim? I wasn't aware of any behavior like that other than features that you can turn off that end up sending info to Google servers (like tab sync).
leppr 12y ago
If you tend to accumulate tabs and forget to close them then the Unload Tab [1] extension is a must. Your browser becomes laggy after opening 5 pages with flash elements? Just right-click on the current tab > "Unload Other Tabs". You can also set it to automatically unload background tabs after a certain amount of time. [1]: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-us/firefox/addon/unloadtab/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-us/firefox/addon/unloadtab/
coldtea 12y ago
>I regularly have several hundred tabs open in Firefox with no problems. Some people may think this is crazy or messy but I find it very useful for organizing the various projects I'm working on for different clients and my own personal projects. It still is crazy and messy. For organizing the various projects there are bookmarks and bookmark folders. Having tons of tabs open != organization.
- detaro 12y ago
  Why is "a list of bookmarks grouped by folders" organized, but "a list of tabs grouped by windows"(potentially with the support of tree style tabs or something similar) crazy and messy?
  - coldtea 12y ago
    List of folders: + user is able to see a tree-view / list of them all at one. + searchable. + loadable on demand on the same "tabs", even whole folders (projects) at once. + persistent (even across computers with bookmark sync). + doesn't waste memory (not even mininal). + Was even designed for actual organization (Manage Bookmarks...), instead of a viewing content feature that was abused for that purpose.
jakub_g 12y ago
Note that Opera also has delayed tab loading option in its advanced configuration (my main browser is Firefox though, since 2006 or so).

yellowapple 12y ago

I do the same thing; it's incredibly easy to do with the Tree View Tabs extension. For example, while browsing HN, I'll frequently just middle-click a bunch of article links and (occasionally) their comments, then read them once I have a sizable queue. Same goes for trying to look up documentation to fix some bug in my code; I'll start with a DuckDuckGo search and, suddenly, I have at least a dozen (sometimes multiple dozens) tabs open with Stack Overflow questions and blog posts and official online docs and such with clues pointing me in the right direction.

tonetheman 12y ago
What is the name of that extension? I searched and get over a thousand results. Thanks!
- andrewflnr 12y ago
  "Tree Style Tab". http://piro.sakura.ne.jp/xul/_treestyletab.html.en http://piro.sakura.ne.jp/xul/_treestyletab.html.en At least that's the one I use.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- yellowapple 12y ago
  Search DuckDuckGo for "Tree Style Tabs"; it should be the first result. It should also be the first result if you search Mozilla's add-on marketplace thingamajig for "Tree Style Tabs". Here's the link for convenience: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/tree-style-tab/?src=search https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/tree-style-ta...

crimsonalucard 12y ago

For me I keep tabs open in case I need to go back later. This works except I only end up reusing 20% of the tabs that I opened. What would be awesome is some sort of auto tab closer that assumes you'll never use the tab again after 15 minutes of idle time.

dbjacobs 12y ago
For Chrome look at Tab Wrangler, it does this for you.
c3o 12y ago
The Great Suspender will remove the tab's contents from memory after a freely configurable time, while still keeping it where it was in case you want to get back to it later. I've found that this works best for me: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/the-great-suspender/klbibkeccnjlkjkiokjodocebajanakg?hl=en https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/the-great-suspende...

sliverstorm 12y ago

I use tabs-as-history and tabs-as-queue, but (despite the initial effort hump) I find bookmarks are better for cold storage.

zetafunction 12y ago

As a Chrome developer, I agree that process-per-tab absolutely should not be a replacement for fixing bugs. However, I think it's important to point out that process-per-tab is not just for stability: it's also critical for security.

scobar 12y ago
I found your statement very interesting, and would like to learn more. If you're allowed, would you please provide more details or links to resources that further explain the security issues that process-per-tab resolves?
- geofft 12y ago
  There's a bunch of good public docs on the Chromium security architecture. One big thing that having a separate process per origin does is that you can use OS sandboxing techniques on each process separately, and even if there are renderer bugs, an exploit can't immediately get to another origin; it provides defense in depth by also requiring a sandbox escape. Here's an old paper that talks about the architecture (it hasn't changed much at a high level): http://seclab.stanford.edu/websec/chromium/chromium-security-architecture.pdf http://seclab.stanford.edu/websec/chromium/chromium-security...
dmix 12y ago
Chrome is way ahead of Firefox in terms of security. It's worth the performance trade-offs. Each website is rendered in a separate process with a sandbox, each with an empty chroot + process namespace + network namespace + tiny seccomp-bpf + syscall whitelist. Chrome also has a stronger sandbox, pioneers better SSL, supports PIE on binaries, uses pepper - doesnt use native Flash plugins, the JIT compiler does randomization / encryption tricks to make it hard to heap spray exploit code. They have their own hardened memory allocator called PartitionAlloc. Etc Etc. Firefox also had more critical CVEs in 2014 than Chrome: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=2CRyJkmV http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=2CRyJkmV And reports of sandbox escapes are less common in Chrome for a reason.
- 12y ago

soperj 12y ago

I have a whack of tabs open all the time as well, and if I do it in Chrome it just kills my battery where as in firefox it doesn't. (on fedora 20)

scholia 12y ago
Running down the battery is a well known feature of Chrome on on Windows https://randomascii.wordpress.com/2013/07/08/windows-timer-resolution-megawatts-wasted/ https://randomascii.wordpress.com/2013/07/08/windows-timer-r...

benjaminpv 12y ago

I find that over time I end up with a bunch of tabs whose content seems interesting that grow over time. My working set is off to one side while the 'to read' tabs stack up over to the left. I'd found a big boon for this workflow in the very simple extension "Export Tabs[1]." It's really simple: click an icon on the toolbar and it lists open tabs by title and then by URL. Now when I notice that I've got a real glut of tabs open I dump them into my bookmark software so I can comb through later. Like I said, really simple extension but tremendously helpful. [1]: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/export-tabs/odafagokkafdbbeojliiojjmimakacil?hl=en https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/export-tabs/odafag...

zzleeper 12y ago
That's amazing! Much easier than managing the mess that is chrome bookmark manager, when you just want to save something for a while and not forever.
sergiosgc 12y ago
I'm old school. My to-read queue goes off to del.icio.us. After all the switches and selling and buying, in the end, it's not half bad. Bookmarklets plus droidicious on Android and I have a dependable bookmark store.
jannes 12y ago
I just released a similar Chrome extension called TabAttack[1]. I would love to hear what you think of it. [1]: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/tabattack/ginflokhdahakklidfjlogllkkhokidj https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/tabattack/ginflokh... Instead of exporting tabs as plain text it exports them as Markdown. And it allows you to download the resulting document with one click as a *.md file, instead of having to copy and paste it in an editor. It also uses the screen real estate in the toolbar a little bit more usefully by showing a tab counter (similar to what Chrome does on mobile). And of course there are keyboard shortcuts for everything. Here is my Show HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9047945 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9047945
scholia 12y ago
In Firefox you can just put them into groups, so they stop being tabs. Later, you can open a whole group when you need it. It's much more organized...

Touche 12y ago

https://pinboard.in https://pinboard.in

GrinningFool 12y ago

I find this essentially when I run high numbers of tabs: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/tree-style-tab/?src=search https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/tree-style-ta... Though another comment has led me to wonder if FF doesn't have something similar built-in.

keypusher 12y ago
Tree Style Tabs is essential if you keep many tabs open. Not only does it make it possible to read the window titles and use screen real estate more effectively, it facilitates tab hierachies (parent page A opened links to B, C, D, parent page B opened links to E, F, G, etc).
- rndn 12y ago
  There is a very simple extension called Tab Counter which works very well together with TSTs and it helps to remind me when it's time to clean up the tab bar. It also appears to bring peace of mind that all tabs are still there, it's just the missing status bar. :)
wldcordeiro 12y ago
Between Tree Style Tabs and The Fox Only Better[0] I can't see myself going to Chrome or any other browser. The UI is pretty much hidden until I need it, giving me maximum browsing space. [0] https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/the-fox-only-better/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/the-fox-only-...
- danneu 12y ago
  Thanks, just installed The Fox Only Better which restored Vimperator to its former glory. That url bar was painful. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/spa/quq37nq1583x0lf/u_g2cx0h.png https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/spa/quq37nq1583x0lf/u_g2cx...
- GrinningFool 12y ago
  Thanks for that, TFoB is promising so far, though it seems to notch up CPU usage.

wutbrodo 12y ago

> Such usage is just not possible with Chrome. In your opinion, what makes this "impossible"? I also use a few hundred tabs at any one time (also to the consternation of everyone who sees any _one_ of the Chrome windows I have open) and I'm very happy with Chrome.

scholia 12y ago
How do you see which tab is which? (I gave up on Chrome about 20 months ago for Firefox's superior tab handling, better stability, and being less of a resource hog. Oh, and for not spying on me.)
- detaro 12y ago
  Not GP, but: multiple windows and intuition. Generally, for ~20 tabs per window I still can tell pretty okay what is what, only large swabs of similar tabs (e.g. 10 ebay product sites) are a bit annoying. A tab switcher that shows the headlines would admittedly be helpful.
  - scholia 12y ago
    In Firefox, I either scroll quickly though readable tabs with the mouse-wheel, or click the right down-arrow for a text list of tabs, or start typing in the address bar of whichever tab I'm in. For example, if I type twi then the drop-down list offers Twitter, and I select "Switch to tab". That gets me to the half-dozen tabs I want to look at several times a day. With those options plus tab groups, I find it pretty easy to handle several hundred tabs in Firefox, where Chrome was a nightmare. The drawback is that you just keep adding tabs ;-)
- wutbrodo 12y ago
  I use an extension called switch to tab. It uses the omnibox interface to auto complete what you type and switch to the right tab. (and when I'm switching back and forth multiple times between two tabs, I just have muscle memory for how many tabs apart they are). What are you referring to specifically with the "spying on you" claim? I wasn't aware of any behavior like that other than features that you can turn off that end up sending info to Google servers (like tab sync).

leppr 12y ago

If you tend to accumulate tabs and forget to close them then the Unload Tab [1] extension is a must. Your browser becomes laggy after opening 5 pages with flash elements? Just right-click on the current tab > "Unload Other Tabs". You can also set it to automatically unload background tabs after a certain amount of time. [1]: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-us/firefox/addon/unloadtab/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-us/firefox/addon/unloadtab/

coldtea 12y ago

>I regularly have several hundred tabs open in Firefox with no problems. Some people may think this is crazy or messy but I find it very useful for organizing the various projects I'm working on for different clients and my own personal projects. It still is crazy and messy. For organizing the various projects there are bookmarks and bookmark folders. Having tons of tabs open != organization.

detaro 12y ago
Why is "a list of bookmarks grouped by folders" organized, but "a list of tabs grouped by windows"(potentially with the support of tree style tabs or something similar) crazy and messy?
- coldtea 12y ago
  List of folders: + user is able to see a tree-view / list of them all at one. + searchable. + loadable on demand on the same "tabs", even whole folders (projects) at once. + persistent (even across computers with bookmark sync). + doesn't waste memory (not even mininal). + Was even designed for actual organization (Manage Bookmarks...), instead of a viewing content feature that was abused for that purpose.

jakub_g 12y ago

Note that Opera also has delayed tab loading option in its advanced configuration (my main browser is Firefox though, since 2006 or so).