16 ms·

Stop Using LinkedIn

534 points by ruperp 12y ago

hamitron 12y ago
I am actually working on an alternative that would basically just be a resume API. This is nothing but good news for me.
- boomzilla 12y ago
  How would you validate the resumes? The power of LinkedIn is in the trust it establishes. Granted I still have a lot of validation to do before hiring/doing business with someone, but Linkedin is a great first filter. I know for software engineers, Github could be a better filter, but it's just a very small segment in the world of business.
  - dkarapetyan 12y ago
    Validate the resume? What does that mean?
    - Throwaway1224 12y ago
      a lot of companies won't even look at you unless your resume/work history is on linkedin.
      - dkarapetyan 12y ago
        Which companies are those? I've never had a problem getting jobs and interviews without a linkedin account.
      - 27182818284 12y ago
        I've never seen this done. I'd love examples for companies. Social media often augments folks, but I've never seen someone rejected for not having a LinkedIn.
      - danielweber 12y ago
        That's as silly as companies that only look at your Github. I.e., I'm sure someone out there does it, but they are dumb.
        lucaspiller 12y ago
        A company I worked for started outsourcing a lot of its work to a certain Asian country last year. One of the issues we had when trying to recruit people is that they will just blatantly lie about their experience on their CV. Asking for a GitHub profile was an easy way to backup their claims, with minimal time wasted on my side - at least until they cotton on and start putting fake projects there. (Admitidely trying to outsource work just to save money was dumb, but it wasn't my decision, so I had to make do)
  - sergiotapia 12y ago
    "The power of LinkedIn is in the trust it establishes." I feel the complete opposite way. I've had people claim I know PHP on my profile when I've never used PHP in my life. That's endorse stuff is major baloney. How can you trust that when anybody can just click Endorse for whatever they want?
    - praneshp 12y ago
      Very true. I have endorsements in C++ from my auto insurance guy, which doesn't make any sense either.
  - pimlottc 12y ago
    > I know for software engineers, Github could be a better filter For some engineers. There are many, many excellent developers who don't spend much time on Github. John Carmack doesn't even have an account, for example...
- edoceo 12y ago
  I've built a small tool to aggregate profiles together and I use it for my hiring. It builds a profile that is a bit more useful than LI. http://ars.io http://ars.io
- gpi5 12y ago
  One of LinkedIn strength is related to accessing your network though. Being able to have a sense of who does what and when is the only reason why I'm sill on their site. Any plan to have something similar?
feverishaaron 12y ago
This reads like an Anonymous diatribe. Clear language will yield better results.
- JoeAltmaier 12y ago
  RIght. I went away with no frickin idea what they were talking about. So, no I don't care either. LinkedIn is THE way to connect professionally. Some API rant is not going to change that.
  - Smushman 12y ago
    Could anyone break down for those of us who are engineers what it is that we should be concerned with about this?
    - jakejake 12y ago
      It appears to me that LinkedIn is splitting their API into separate categories (Profile API, Company API, etc) Going forward everyone will have to register and be approved in only 1 of the categories, meaning that if you are in the Company API, you won't be able to utilize features of the Profile API. I don't know exactly what that means as far as specific features, but my guess is that if you're a company you won't be able to access personal profiles and feeds. I could be totally wrong about this but that's what it looks like.
  - justrudd 12y ago
    Yeah. The site had no information on it. But I wonder, is LinkedIn really "the" way to connect professionally? My personal bit of anecdotal experience is that it isn't for me. I was on LinkedIn for maybe 15 years? I accepted everyone on LinkedIn (I was not discriminating at all). And in that 15 years, I never found one job through it. Right now in Seattle (where I've been for 10 years), I go through my "people I drink beer with" network. What I'd love to see is a network that would introduce me to people in other cities. I want to move to NYC, but I know no one there. So I don't know the good vs. bad neighborhoods, companies to stay away from (you know there is a list), etc.
junto 12y ago
What actually happened of the 12th?
- ipedrazas 12y ago
  I think it's when they put the web site up...
foolinaround 12y ago
Was there a change in terms that is unsavoury?
sagivo 12y ago
linkedin: "someone just viewed your profile." me: "who?" linkedin: "can't tell you."
- darkstar999 12y ago
  "pay me and I'll tell you"
  - xienze 12y ago
    I actually found that even if you pay there's STILL a lot of "people who've viewed you" that you can't actually view!
    - Aloisius 12y ago
      I'm actually partially responsible for this. I actually designed that product at LinkedIn. There are some people who need to stay anonymous for various reasons including lawyers, M&A people, etc. The setting for how you show up in other people's who viewed your profile is controlled by the individual user. It is a privacy thing. The messaging when upgrading used to be much more clear - you would get to see more people who viewed you as opposed to just the last few - not de-anonymize people. They seem to have made it more ambiguous since I left.
      - sagivo 12y ago
        if you can't tell me who, don't tell me at all! it's a waste of time, effort and bad experience.
      - ndesaulniers 12y ago
        There's always an upsell. Someone viewed your profile. Pay to see who. You show up when you view others' profile. Pay not to. Someone viewed your profile, but pays to not be visible. Out bid them to see their profile. Pay to actually see who. You pay not to show up when you view others' profiles, but they pay to still see you. Pay more? Do you see how this seems deceitful?
elliotec 12y ago
None of those alternatives are anything like LinkedIn, and this page doesn't tell me what they did that was so evil anyway.
- gagege 12y ago
  "Yeah, sure I'll just switch from LinkedIn to GitHub..." What?
girmad 12y ago
To make this work, you need to get the avg LinkedIn user to opt out. I bet this page is not very effective at achieving that right now. To get the average user to change their behavior, you must show them: - why doing nothing will be bad for them (try to show how it will impact their daily life) - why doing what you recommend will be good for them + without putting in much effort or money + very quickly There are lot of angry people on the internet, the challenge is to make me care.
yafujifide 12y ago
Twitter should be on the list of alternatives. I have found twitter to be a more valuable professional tool than LinkedIn (though I doubt my experience is like others).
hapless 12y ago
LinkedIn, like Twitter, is limiting API usage to specific use cases that dovetail with LinkedIn's own apps, instead of competing with them. The restrictions were imposed yesterday. The authors of this manifesto think that's a bad thing, but they don't give me, the reader, any more information. Why is it a bad thing? What cool stuff am I missing by using LinkedIn and its restrictive API? Why should I put effort into an alternative?
- arcatek 12y ago
  I wonder if it has to do with the MASSIVE amount of head hunter spam that we may get from LinkedIn. Maybe they actually restrict its access for the Greater Good?
  - maineldc 12y ago
    That spam IS the LinkedIn business model and it's not coming from 3rd party apps that have access to the API - it's coming from LinkedIn's main site and the (premium) features they offer.
- josefdlange 12y ago
  This. Making potentially baseless claims and not explaining their impact beyond "they're bad!" is the kind of rhetoric a middle schooler uses before he or she learns to write proper persuasive prose. While I agree that data should be as freely available as possible--so long as the person to whom the data belongs approves--I really can't get on board with this histrionic garbage. Make an assertion. Back it up with evidence. Explain the consequences.
  - ruperp 12y ago
    We tweaked the copy a bit. Would love your suggestions on something better. Thanks for the constructive feedback!
    - siddharthdeswal 12y ago
      What did you tweak? I'm not a technical person so don't understand why those specific use-cases are bad. If you want the majority of Linkedin users to care about the cause, you ought to put it in language that the vast, non-technical majority will understand.
jwiley 12y ago
It would be helpful to have real-world examples of who is losing out due to this and why...beyond the entire free peoples of the internet (some of whom I'm sure do not use linked in).
nostromo 12y ago
This article is more informative about why they are upset with LinkedIn: http://www.wired.com/2015/02/linkedin-api/ http://www.wired.com/2015/02/linkedin-api/ tl;dr: LinkedIn is pulling a Twitter. I can't say I'm surprised. It's a common pattern: Step 1: plant a nice open garden that attracts lots of people. Step 2: put wall around garden.
- robbd7 12y ago
  That's how I would play Roller Coaster Tycoon
- johnchristopher 12y ago
  Thanks for the tldr; but what does `pulling a Twitter` mean ?
  - slig 12y ago
    Closing down APIs once they're big enough to not care more about developers and early adopters.
- _Adam 12y ago
  Hmm. Interesting if this decision was ultimately responsible for Twitter's declining traffic. Perhaps the same will happen to Linkedin? Of course even if it does we won't have evidence of causation, but it's something to keep in the back of our minds.
- logn 12y ago
  Step 3: stop watering the grass. Step 4: hope the walls are high enough.
- dikaiosune 12y ago
  Netflix did this recently too, IIRC.
friendlyguy85 12y ago
>Stop using Linkedin >Here is a list of 16 sites where you need to be registered at teh same time to have an access to the same audience as on linkedin
WalterSear 12y ago
All alternatives miss the main reason that people use linked in, which is it's social graph.
Casseres 12y ago
Develop a better service for the end-user, and I'll use it. Once enough people are using it, then I'll stop using LinkedIn. And more details with a clear explanation of why the website wants us to stop using LinkedIn would be appreciative.
getdavidhiggins 12y ago
If your digital life is portable from the outset, then smear-campaign sites like this don't need to happen. LinkedIN data silos are purely symptomatic of people choosing services where the data is not portable in the first place. Choose services where you can export, and migrate data before the fact, not after it. Also see * http://indiewebify.me/ http://indiewebify.me/ * http://dataportability.org/ http://dataportability.org/ Checkout the #ownyourdata initiative also.
Sivart13 12y ago
So I should stop using LinkedIn because they're restricting the amount of access that third parties have to my data? As I see it, the only thing worse than LinkedIn spamming me based on my employment history is other companies spamming me based on my LinkedIn employment history. There's many reasons to stop using LinkedIn, but this doesn't seem like one.
shravvmehtaa 12y ago
Linkedin has been known to shut down competing services prior to this. At hired.com, our API access was revoked (a long while ago), and many of our users were no longer able to login.
- jspiral 12y ago
  you guys rejected me as a customer even though my team is building data science stuff on open source technologies, because my employer does translation which is "a competing staffing service".
  - vivekpreddy 12y ago
    Likewise with us. Hypocritical to claim that Linkedin takes anti-competitive practices when Hired.com employs similar tactics. At least Linkedin still allows competitors to have Linkedin profiles.
btipling 12y ago
API issues aside, I recently deleted my LinkedIn account and my life has been better off for it. My recruiter spam volume dropped from daily emails to maybe two or three times a month. I'm not sure if LinkedIn provides any value, I've never gotten a job that way. I think stalking people on social networks is also a net negative experience. I realized I should spend less time worrying about what other people are doing with their lives and focus more on my own. There was also a recent NY Times article about how employers use LinkedIn candidates contacts to disqualify them for employment[1]. So LinkedIn can actually be detrimental to your career. I just don't think LinkedIn adds anything. Businesses and recruiters use it to get your email to target you for spam. But what do you get out of it and think, if there wasn't a LinkedIn would you be out of a job right now? [1] http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/09/technology/on-linkedin-a-reference-list-you-didnt-write.html http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/09/technology/on-linkedin-a-r...
- FD3SA 12y ago
  Agreed with all of your points, but I'd like to add that your employment history is very personal and can quite often be used against you in ways you wouldn't imagine ahead of time. Just like any personal information, its best to keep it as private as possible and default to a "need to know" basis. The era of naively optimistic voluntary sharing of sensitive personal information ended when we saw the potential consequences. Potential employers want to know where you worked? They can ask you themselves. I'd also like to know who the board members are playing golf with, what their future capitalization plans are and if/when they plan on jumping ship. Too bad none of that will ever be shared with me. So why should I share intimate details of my past? Information asymmetry is power in the modern world. It is foolish to relinquish it voluntarily.
  - jsprogrammer 12y ago
    >Information asymmetry is power in the modern world. And likely favors those who place lots valid information into the world, not those who keep it secret.
hughguiney 12y ago
As someone who is looking for work and finds nearly all of it through LinkedIn, canceling my account is not something I can afford to do at this time. As much as I empathize with the Open Web mission, opting out of LI is the privilege of happily employed developers.
rjdagost 12y ago
Yet another demonstration of the hazards of building a business on a platform that's entirely controlled by someone else.
abdelhai 12y ago
Sorry for my shameless plug here but we are developing a LinkedIn alternative for Developer, it's called devolio.net[1] and we will launch open beta in March. We will support the open jsonresume.org formats and unrestricted profile viewing experience (no sign in walls) . Plus we are just focusing on developers, so it has no annoying fake business people. [1] https://devolio.net/ https://devolio.net/
dkarapetyan 12y ago
Dear programmers, if you are using linkedin you are doing it wrong. Use github, careers.stackoverflow, a plain html resume page, the ladders, and basically anything else that is not linkedin to showcase your skillset.
- mindcrime 12y ago
  LinkedIn is useful for more than just "showcasing your skillset" though.
  - dkarapetyan 12y ago
    How is that? The only thing I've ever gotten from them is a shitty user experience, overabundance of dark UI patterns, and recruiter spam.
    - mindcrime 12y ago
      Oh I don't know... how about keeping track of former co-workers, people you meet at networking events, and other professional connections? How about finding useful interesting industry or topic specific news and discussion via groups? Or if you are job-hunting, for finding a path to somebody who works at the company you're targeting, so you can try to get an inside testimonial? Or getting a warm intro when trying to contact VC's or Angel investors? Or perhaps for looking up an individual before meeting them in a professional setting, so you have some background on their experience / interests / etc? I mean, really, there are a million ways that LinkedIn is useful. The fact that they suck in so many other ways is pretty much orthogonal. Yeah, I think we'd all prefer a site like LinkedIn that somehow manages to avoid "recruiter spam" and all that, but for me personally, I can tolerate a little recruiter spam... and hell, every once in a while I get something like that, that is actually interesting enough to pursue.
      - dkarapetyan 12y ago
        I don't think you're a programmer or maybe you were but are now at a higher level. My advice was more for practicing programmers than others. I personally get zero value out of linkedin. All the people I consider professional equals can be found on mailing lists, blogs, weekly digests, stackoverflow, meetups, etc. Keeping track of them is quite easy and I don't need a third party in that process that just spams me.
dlu 12y ago
Is anyone really surprised? Ideologically upset? Sure, but we learned this with Twitter and tons of other companies. The APIs are there's to support or pull
halayli 12y ago
Looking at the alternatives listed, it's clear that they have no competitor.
eggbrain 12y ago
I think one of the most frustrating things is hearing how many people seem to dislike LinkedIn, but use it because it's the best thing out there. Most only use it as their online resume, but between recruiter spam messages and constant annoyances from emails and to "keep up to date", they tolerate it at best. Facebook had similar rumblings (people saying they'd switch off as soon as possible if something better came along), but Google Plus showed us the social costs of switching was higher than the frustration most people felt. Does LinkedIn have that same social cost of switching to another service? I'm not so sure -- and I think it means they might be more susceptible to falling flat on their face if they push users too far.[1] [1] This may just be my own hope and bias, since I built a job website of my own.
juancastro 12y ago
Well... I never thought about this before...
jchomali 12y ago
Me either
jchomali 12y ago
Me either
swalsh 12y ago
The problem with a lot of these sites (facebook/linkedin) etc is their business is built on data you provided, which they then get to control. The problem is additional data gets built up, and they gain a monopoly on the information. It results in an unfair market. For me to build a competitor to facebook or linkedin would be very difficult. Even if its better! I'd like to see a law about user obtained data, that requires it always be programatically accessible.
- logn 12y ago
  It's called fair use but people have this idea that Robots.txt was a bill passed by Congress. But yes, I totally agree, and sites like Stack Overflow are doing this very well. It's a shame that Archive.org was not allowed to crawl my profile before I left last year but that they allowed Google/Bing/etc to crawl it.
pearjuice 12y ago
In theory all this stop using X campaigns sound amazing as in this era value and revenue of X is often determined by its active users. Vote with your wallet! Practically, only a subset of all active users will actually care and permanently stop using X until the situation has improved. In the end, cost of living without X is often bigger than the association you feel with the campaign its values. If there were solid alternatives straight away and everyone would switch, that cost would decrease but until then "stop using linkedin", " drop dropbox", "don't buy Nike" are just drops in the ocean. Which is a bummer because if you would be able to actually manoeuvre a big enough user base, those campaigns would certainly be effective due to the "adapt or run out of business" effect it has.
MagicWishMonkey 12y ago
LinkedIn screwed me over real good a few weeks back. They sent me an email saying "There are 108 people you might want to connect with", so I click on view all and it shows a giant list of people with checkmarks by their names. Nice. I uncheck all of them, and scroll through checking a few folks who I want to network with (5 people in total). Click next, it takes me to a screen showing the 5 people and the banner clearly says "Send connection requests to these 5 people?". I click next. The next screen says "Congratulations, we've sent connection requests to 300 people.". What the flying fuck? Ok, well that's a bummer but oh well, probably just a bug in their system. Then my inbox starts getting spammed with "I'm out of the office right now blah blah blah" from people who I don't even know who they are. The assholes sent 300 people linkedin connection requests through my own personal gmail account. With zero warning whatsoever. That really pisses me off. I like LinkedIn, it's a great networking tool, but they really need to stop doing this shit. Something similar happened a few years ago, but they only spammed people in my address book who were already members and the emails were sent by LinkedIn, not through my gmail account. I've revoked LinkedIn's access to my gmail account. I regret ever enabling it in the first place. I recommend you do the same. For those who don't know how: https://www.google.com/settings/security https://www.google.com/settings/security (click the view all button next to Apps and Websites).
- basseq 12y ago
  I don't think I ever granted them access, but somehow they got a list of random email contacts. So every once in a while I'll get an email that says, "Connect with Joe?" Looks like a normal inbound connection request, but it's actually a trap to get YOU to initiate a request. Awkward for contacts you might accept a request from, but not reach out to.
  - karamazov 12y ago
    I suspect the other party gave LinkedIn their address book, and they're trying to maximize the odds of a connection.
    - basseq 12y ago
stonogo 12y ago
Can anyone use the phrase "undersigned and federated bodies of the internet" and expect to be taken seriously?
theaccordance 12y ago
Guessing that someone isn't happy that their lead generation app just lost its data input? This website is nothing more than a knee-jerk reaction that tries to rally readers by crafting a context that makes it sound as if LinkedIn's changes are not in the interest of the user. Yes, I would like open access to the API, but I'd gladly trade that if it helps reduce the volume of spam sales/recruitment inquiries I receive. The partnership integration route may have extra hoops to jump through, but it doesn't concern someone like myself who's anticipating LinkedIn integration with our product; our intent is not what LinkedIn is trying to curb.
- ruperp 12y ago
  Better integration doesn't mean spam (LinkedIn already has that feature in spades). It means allowing apps to leverage your work connections to provide better tools for you to use.
  - theaccordance 12y ago
    Not sure where you're going with that, have you read the official post from LinkedIn or the Wired Article? That will help give better context to my comment.
ruperp 12y ago
OP here. So the FDR verbage is not popular. Anyone willing to help write better text? Please email contact@stopusinglinkedin.com and we'll get it swapped out. Apologies for the intro copy faux pas.
- thesomelioma 12y ago
  I'd feel better about helping you if I knew who you were. For all I know, you represent a shady company who tried to make bank by scraping LinkedIn data and creating customized phishing profiles.
codingdave 12y ago
I know Linkedin isn't perfect, but it does have one single use case fulfilled for me - the ability to have just enough of a connection to ex-coworkers, so that in the future if our paths ever do have reason to cross again, it is easy to make that happen. These aren't people I want to be on other social media with - they are purely coworkers who might be worth contacting again. And there are other ways to keep in touch... but for this particular use, Linkedin is a good option. And because that is my primary purpose for having an account, I have no problems with API usage that is more restricted. I don't want an ecosystem built up around linkedin's data. I don't see any potential for that to improve my life.
TheHypnotist 12y ago
They also recently put in some search restrictions, which for a very different set of reasons, makes me not like what they are doing.
op00to 12y ago
One of the "alternative" services these folks recommend is academia.edu - does anyone else find it really weird that a for-profit-not-even-remotely-degree-granting company is squatting in the .edu namespace?
- obsurveyor 12y ago
  It was assigned before 2001 so it's grandfathered in and isn't subject to the normal .edu rules.
jrochkind1 12y ago
I hate LinkedIn, and wish it was not a de facto requirement for getting a job in certain industries/areas. To make it not so, _users_ need to stop using Linked In. This OP is very developer-focused in it's audience, it will not be clear to the non-developer user (or even to many developers) what they are talking about at all, or why it matters. It is written assuming you already know what they're talking about and already agree with them about it. There are plenty of things that might matter to users and help convince users that Linked In is an untrustworthy company -- like, their email spamming/address-book-stealing practices. I was hoping the OP would be more user-focused in it's intended audience and more intentional in making a case.
- jacquesc 12y ago
  Developers are a huge resource for LinkedIn. The only reason they can sell their spammy products to recruiters is because those recruiters count on LinkedIn having quality people on their network to send it to. If everyone who didn't need a LinkedIn profile to get a job shut off their profile, LinkedIn's revenue would collapse quickly.
  - jrochkind1 12y ago
    > If everyone who didn't need a LinkedIn profile to get a job shut off their profile... Right. And clearly someone that actually _needs_ a LinkedIn profile to get a job is not going to shut off their profile, which is the hard part. But either way, I think this OP is not written/structured as well as it could be to convince people to shut off their profiles and/or stop recruiting on it, it seems to be targetted more at people who write software for linked in API, and doens't do a great job of making the argument even there.
wazoox 12y ago
Linkedin provides me with a constant stream of useful contacts, leads, etc. Linkedin is by far the most useful social network to me.
pknerd 12y ago
So did someone share it on LinkedIn yet?
Djonckheere 12y ago
Among the alternatives listed is Behance -last time I checked this network was owned and operated by Adobe. btw, the stopusinglinkedin.com site links to behance.com which does not exist. It's behance.net Dribbble (the other design resource listed) I understand was co-founded by designer Dan Cederholm, but oddly if you visit his current Wikipedia page there's no mention of his involvement with Dribbble -only on his SimpleBits bio page: http://simplebits.com/about/ http://simplebits.com/about/
PaulHoule 12y ago
My beef with LinkedIn is that the user interface sux. I used to be a LION so I still have days when I have to filter 20 connection requests. I still accept connections if (1) you seem to be a person and (2) you use your real name (not the name of a business) The interface for accepting connection requests is painful and slow and so are the interfaces for doing other things on LinkedIn. I find myself using it less and less because it just takes too long to do things. By restricting the API they just make it harder to improve the UI.
pbreit 12y ago
LinkedIn's APIs have historically been very restrictive. I can sort of understand that LinkedIn feels/knows it's sitting on extremely valuable data except that on further inspection it's almost all public data that just happens to be decently organized.
ksenzee 12y ago
I wish there were some way to tell companies like LinkedIn not to create a shadow profile on you. I've never trusted LinkedIn enough to create an account - their email practices are too shady, and I'm totally happy with StackOverflow Careers - but I periodically get emails saying "Bill Former Coworker wants to connect with you!" (And then of course I get follow-up emails for several weeks.) I'm sure my shadow profile is quite accurate. For all I know, they're emailing people on my behalf saying "ksenzee wants to connect with you!"
shiggerino 12y ago
LinkedIn creeps me the hell out with their connection suggestions, that are way too accurate for for anyone to make through honest means, especially given that I've intentionally been very restrictive with what I've added to my profile. I've even been very uneasy about accepting connection requests, since this isn't something I really want to contribute to. Of course, that means the cost of deleting my account is very low given that I hardly use it in the first place. Something to think about.
- lyschoening 12y ago
  If you supplied your email, you have given LinkedIn everything needed for honest, accurate suggestions. They used the suggested contacts' address books.
- smu3l 12y ago
  Yes I'm always surprised by who shows up as suggested contacts. Often it's people who I've interacted with online maybe once. My best guess is that those people are providing LinkedIn their contact lists.
  - walterbell 12y ago
    I wonder how many are Android users. iOS gives users the option of preventing apps from accessing contact data.
- vitd 12y ago
  I have a problem where I lived in a building with a bunch of people who turned out to be fairly dishonest. We all have each others email addresses because we had to communicate about the home-owners' association. I moved out, and now LinkedIn regularly suggests that I connect with these douchebags because I'm still in their address books.
- a3n 12y ago
  LinkedIn once suggested I connect with a neighbor in my apartment building. All we ever did was say hi to each other, we didn't know each other's names. The only reason I knew the connection suggestion was about this person was because of the photo. That was a WTF moment.
alfg 12y ago
I feel like LinkedIn is an evil necessity. It's so bloated and I never feel comfortable navigating or viewing anything on LinkedIn due to their nature of trying to connect or send emails without your approval. I'd really like if there was an alternative that can be just as popular, with simple resume hosting/networking capabilities. No bloat or shady practices.
jqm 12y ago
My opinion is that being on LinkedIn is like being on the shelf at WalMart (where the masses can easily find you). Most unique quality merchandise won't ever found on the shelves of a WalMart. That's a place for interchangeable, disposable, mass produced items. Oh, and Fuck companies that engage in scummy behaviour like email hijacking.
aendruk 12y ago
I created this page to help when filling out forms that presume I have a LinkedIn profile: https://Opt.outof.Link/edIn https://Opt.outof.Link/edIn
ndesaulniers 12y ago
Something is really fucked with their UI. It's very deceptive and deceitful. The other day, I thought I was accepting connection requests people had sent me. Found out that I was sending connection requests to people LinkedIn thought I knew! I can see how that could be considered useful, but it was not my intent to contribute to the noise and the spam that is LinkedIn.
suttree 12y ago
It's looking very likely that 2015 is going to be a #linkedout year. More and more stuff like this is happening, and LinkedIn can't keep up. They're an incredible company, but they're a 12 year old product at this stage. Take a look at my version of the alternative, trying to get ahead of them not replace them: https://www.somewhere.com https://www.somewhere.com
LukeB_UK 12y ago
I deleted my LinkedIn account a while ago. Their UI is full of dark patterns and the only thing I ever got out of their service was recruitment spam from people that hadn't actually read my profile. Since deleting my account, I get much less spam from recruiters. If I still get some, it's easy to get rid of them with a simple reply or a click on an unsubscribe link.
rilita 12y ago
LinkedIn, as used by the majority of resources ( not recruiters ), is free for what is needed. Why is it assumed that it is "unfair" for a company providing a free service to hoard the data you give to them? If you don't like LinkedIn, don't use it. If you don't like LinkedIn because they won't let you steal their data, then I'm sure they will be happy that you ignore them. Trying to convince people who don't care to stop using LinkedIn is pointless.
- MadcapJake 12y ago
  > Why is it assumed that it is "unfair" for a company providing a free service to hoard the data you give to them? It's unfair because LinkedIn had built a precedent of openness and made no indication that this was a temporary or limited offer (at least not a straightforward "hey this might shut off someday..." notice). Also from purely a market perspective, this is unethical as it's about providing a business platform to others and then closing it once your in-house solutions begin to compete with those you've opened the platform to. > If you don't like LinkedIn, don't use it. Problem is, LinkedIn is not just a tool, it's also a network. You can change it as you would a tool, but you'll leave behind the network. Now, get enough supporters to change with you, well then you may have done it! Similarly, the node.js/io.js tussle was/is about getting a better tool but required getting the network to come with (and this was probably what woke up Joyent). > Trying to convince people who don't care to stop using LinkedIn is pointless. You may not care but it certainly is a stretch to claim that others don't care (though at face-value, your statement is actually a truism). I would argue that the majority would/will care as long as a strong enough effort is made to show them why. (Also, this link has 200+ points and 100+ comments...)
- Retra 12y ago
  I don't know why people make these kinds of comments. "If you don't like X, don't use it." You can't know if you like it until after you've used it, and by then it is too late. It seems to me like you'd have to be really out of touch with how the world works to say such a thing.
Luckycharms721 12y ago
Oh Heck NO! I love the in!
whybroke 12y ago
One of the more disturbing issues with linkedin goes almost unnoticed: For what possible reason does linkedin effectively mandate a photo? Because while I can not think of any reason this could possibly be necessary for any profession except super model, I can certainly see how it can be used in a very negative way.
- jpindar 12y ago
  What do you mean? Lots of people don't have profile pictures.
- patmcc 12y ago
  I find it helps in recognizing connections - "Susan Smith? That doesn't ring a bell...ohhh that Susan, I guess she married and took his name." But I take your point, it can absolutely be used in a negative way.
ninv 12y ago
Who's Viewed Your Profile or your updates. This feature is enough to avoid Linkedin. I am scared to click on any profile in linkedin just because of this feature. I always use incognito mode to look up folks in Linkedin. It is a creepy site. Wait till your connections can submit hidden reviews about you and potential employers can view it for a small fee, like Carfax.
- driverdan 12y ago
  There's a privacy option to disable that.
- tokai 12y ago
  I have used that as a feature before applying to a job. I went to the profile of every employee of that firm, before sending my application. My hope was that my name and face would seem familiar to the people interviewing me. I don't know if it paid off, but I ended up getting the job.
gsam 12y ago
If you think you can subvert the business or sociological aspects of hiring and working, you are sadly mistaken. While people still use it, I'll keep a profile up, otherwise bear the mistake of being the 'inept' person without a LinkedIn.
redeleven 12y ago
I have been wondering when someone will step up and make a decent alternative to LinkedIn for a while. It's a truly awful site, the sole reason I have not yet deleted it is I have no other easy way of keeping track of professional relationships.. there are no other redeeming features though, everything else seems very poorly implemented, uninteresting, or exploitative.
ychandler 12y ago
Aside from startups trying to find their customer base and integrating with LinkedIn, do we have any SMBs/mid-stage Startups (Proven Business Models) on HN who have lost their livelihood now given where LinkedIn is going?
dynofuz 12y ago
This is why i never started using it. They've been using these tactics since day one. Spam.
SwellJoe 12y ago
You had me until "Quora" as a suggested alternative. If any site approaches the annoyance level of LinkedIn for me, it's Quora. Both have a habit of spamming me; their unsubscribe stuff is kinda dark pattern-y, in that it's easy to end up still getting mail from them even after clicking through to unsubscribe. That said, I haven't used LinkedIn in years. Have no interest in it, for anything. If I needed work, I might consider going back, but I doubt it. I certainly wouldn't hire someone based on a LinkedIn profile, and I probably wouldn't want to work for someone who did.
LawoftheHarvest 12y ago
Quota and Product Hunt are alternatives to LinkedIn?
andrewstuart 12y ago
I just find it incredibly creepy that LinkedIn seems to know that I am connected to certain people - I cannot imagine they worked out that I do in fact know that person - not by any obvious means.
- liquidcool 12y ago
  It was posited that your email in their contact list might trigger it, but I've seen it happen after I viewed someone's profile. It appears to guess that X days after viewing the profile, you may now know them.
a3n 12y ago
The only thing I use LI for is to hang my name and summary somewhere. Occasionally I get a recruiter contact. My current job of three years came from that. I never endorse anyone. I never respond to endorsements, as most of them are well meaning people endorsing me for something I've never done; I contact them personally by email to say "I don't do endorse, but thanks, still love ya." I never respond to connect requests. They're increasing in number, and lately sound like 419 scams. I'm virtually never logged in. They don't have my email access or adddress book. If they die, or charge me, or something egregiously slimy ... so what. They aren't the only way to connect with people. I actually expect them to go the way of GroupOn (are they still around?). Just minimize your LinkedIn exposure surface and interaction and you'll be fine.
slaction 12y ago
People actually use LinkedIn more that a couple of times a year?
- DyslexicAtheist 12y ago
  it has turned into a publishing platform which is what they have done right compared to their competition (Xing, Viadeo). useful or not they manage to keep people engaged and coming back.
sidcool 12y ago
Why Quora?
qthrul 12y ago
+10 years on LinkedIn +2000 connections Lots of recommendations and endorsements and I wiped it all BTW, I'm running this tweet update series when people actually notice. https://twitter.com/JayCuthrell/status/551254076164288513 https://twitter.com/JayCuthrell/status/551254076164288513 Spoiler alert: < 0.2% of my "connections" noticed
Aoyagi 12y ago
I stopped using LinkedIn right after I heard that it harvests contact details from emails. Thankfully, being "paranoid", I've never allowed it to access that data. After that I deleted my account. Two years later, I received the "these are the people you might know!" email... No need to tell me to not use that service.
jeffehobbs 12y ago
STEP 1: Build open API for content. STEP 2: Wait until third-party builds innovative product X on API, more innovative than existing engineering staff could build. STEP 3: Buy third-party company, aquire product X. STEP 4: Shut down open API so no one can improve upon product X.
apa-sl 12y ago
I'm happy with Opera browser since the days when they were still serving ad banners :)
DyslexicAtheist 12y ago
revoke access: https://security.google.com/settings/security/permissions?hl=en&pli=1 https://security.google.com/settings/security/permissions?hl...
friendly_viking 12y ago
A lot of interesting arguments for and against in the comments over the past two days. The restriction of API is the same that Twitter did when they became more keen on controlling aspects of the app community. Whether or not that has led to decline in the traffic can be debated, or whether it was just 'time'. It is of course LI's prerogative, but a short sighted view of the world, when over the last 10+ years LinkedIn has shown little ability to innovate and evolve the service - third parties could - and they should find ways to encourage (and monetize) that The proliferation of alternatives as suggested on stopusinglinkedin indicates there are better ways of connecting with professionals. Professionals who understand your space and less spammy/generalist ways to find permanent and freelance work - if that is your objective. There is most certainly room in the world for a more niche approach to something as important in our lives as that which generates our income. We have been building www.somewhere.com for a bit now, trying to have quality conversations about work. Sort of by accident people are now using it to find each other for projects. That puts us in the same category as Dribbble and Behance (without the behemoths behind the scenes), yet we are different in that we want to talk about how the sausage is made and not just show the end product. Will that be a 'winning' strategy? Time will tell, we are curious about work, how we do it, when and where and most importantly why - something others have not decided to focus on, but which we believe should be at the core when trying to find people with whom to work. Anyway - API or not, LinkedIn is not the only game in town, perhaps they have gotten too big for their own good, perhaps they will do just fine with their 300M+ users and corporates willing to spend good money for volume...either way - we can all build and support alternatives that work better.

534 points by ruperp 12y ago

I am actually working on an alternative that would basically just be a resume API. This is nothing but good news for me.

boomzilla 12y ago
How would you validate the resumes? The power of LinkedIn is in the trust it establishes. Granted I still have a lot of validation to do before hiring/doing business with someone, but Linkedin is a great first filter. I know for software engineers, Github could be a better filter, but it's just a very small segment in the world of business.
- dkarapetyan 12y ago
  Validate the resume? What does that mean?
  - Throwaway1224 12y ago
    a lot of companies won't even look at you unless your resume/work history is on linkedin.
    - dkarapetyan 12y ago
      Which companies are those? I've never had a problem getting jobs and interviews without a linkedin account.
    - 27182818284 12y ago
      I've never seen this done. I'd love examples for companies. Social media often augments folks, but I've never seen someone rejected for not having a LinkedIn.
    - danielweber 12y ago
      That's as silly as companies that only look at your Github. I.e., I'm sure someone out there does it, but they are dumb.
      - lucaspiller 12y ago
        A company I worked for started outsourcing a lot of its work to a certain Asian country last year. One of the issues we had when trying to recruit people is that they will just blatantly lie about their experience on their CV. Asking for a GitHub profile was an easy way to backup their claims, with minimal time wasted on my side - at least until they cotton on and start putting fake projects there. (Admitidely trying to outsource work just to save money was dumb, but it wasn't my decision, so I had to make do)
- sergiotapia 12y ago
  "The power of LinkedIn is in the trust it establishes." I feel the complete opposite way. I've had people claim I know PHP on my profile when I've never used PHP in my life. That's endorse stuff is major baloney. How can you trust that when anybody can just click Endorse for whatever they want?
  - praneshp 12y ago
    Very true. I have endorsements in C++ from my auto insurance guy, which doesn't make any sense either.
- pimlottc 12y ago
  > I know for software engineers, Github could be a better filter For some engineers. There are many, many excellent developers who don't spend much time on Github. John Carmack doesn't even have an account, for example...
edoceo 12y ago
I've built a small tool to aggregate profiles together and I use it for my hiring. It builds a profile that is a bit more useful than LI. http://ars.io http://ars.io
gpi5 12y ago
One of LinkedIn strength is related to accessing your network though. Being able to have a sense of who does what and when is the only reason why I'm sill on their site. Any plan to have something similar?

feverishaaron 12y ago

This reads like an Anonymous diatribe. Clear language will yield better results.

JoeAltmaier 12y ago
RIght. I went away with no frickin idea what they were talking about. So, no I don't care either. LinkedIn is THE way to connect professionally. Some API rant is not going to change that.
- Smushman 12y ago
  Could anyone break down for those of us who are engineers what it is that we should be concerned with about this?
  - jakejake 12y ago
    It appears to me that LinkedIn is splitting their API into separate categories (Profile API, Company API, etc) Going forward everyone will have to register and be approved in only 1 of the categories, meaning that if you are in the Company API, you won't be able to utilize features of the Profile API. I don't know exactly what that means as far as specific features, but my guess is that if you're a company you won't be able to access personal profiles and feeds. I could be totally wrong about this but that's what it looks like.
- justrudd 12y ago
  Yeah. The site had no information on it. But I wonder, is LinkedIn really "the" way to connect professionally? My personal bit of anecdotal experience is that it isn't for me. I was on LinkedIn for maybe 15 years? I accepted everyone on LinkedIn (I was not discriminating at all). And in that 15 years, I never found one job through it. Right now in Seattle (where I've been for 10 years), I go through my "people I drink beer with" network. What I'd love to see is a network that would introduce me to people in other cities. I want to move to NYC, but I know no one there. So I don't know the good vs. bad neighborhoods, companies to stay away from (you know there is a list), etc.

junto 12y ago

What actually happened of the 12th?

ipedrazas 12y ago
I think it's when they put the web site up...

foolinaround 12y ago

Was there a change in terms that is unsavoury?

sagivo 12y ago

linkedin: "someone just viewed your profile." me: "who?" linkedin: "can't tell you."

darkstar999 12y ago
"pay me and I'll tell you"
- xienze 12y ago
  I actually found that even if you pay there's STILL a lot of "people who've viewed you" that you can't actually view!
  - Aloisius 12y ago
    I'm actually partially responsible for this. I actually designed that product at LinkedIn. There are some people who need to stay anonymous for various reasons including lawyers, M&A people, etc. The setting for how you show up in other people's who viewed your profile is controlled by the individual user. It is a privacy thing. The messaging when upgrading used to be much more clear - you would get to see more people who viewed you as opposed to just the last few - not de-anonymize people. They seem to have made it more ambiguous since I left.
    - sagivo 12y ago
      if you can't tell me who, don't tell me at all! it's a waste of time, effort and bad experience.
    - ndesaulniers 12y ago
      There's always an upsell. Someone viewed your profile. Pay to see who. You show up when you view others' profile. Pay not to. Someone viewed your profile, but pays to not be visible. Out bid them to see their profile. Pay to actually see who. You pay not to show up when you view others' profiles, but they pay to still see you. Pay more? Do you see how this seems deceitful?

elliotec 12y ago

None of those alternatives are anything like LinkedIn, and this page doesn't tell me what they did that was so evil anyway.

gagege 12y ago
"Yeah, sure I'll just switch from LinkedIn to GitHub..." What?

girmad 12y ago

To make this work, you need to get the avg LinkedIn user to opt out. I bet this page is not very effective at achieving that right now. To get the average user to change their behavior, you must show them: - why doing nothing will be bad for them (try to show how it will impact their daily life) - why doing what you recommend will be good for them + without putting in much effort or money + very quickly There are lot of angry people on the internet, the challenge is to make me care.

yafujifide 12y ago

Twitter should be on the list of alternatives. I have found twitter to be a more valuable professional tool than LinkedIn (though I doubt my experience is like others).

hapless 12y ago

LinkedIn, like Twitter, is limiting API usage to specific use cases that dovetail with LinkedIn's own apps, instead of competing with them. The restrictions were imposed yesterday. The authors of this manifesto think that's a bad thing, but they don't give me, the reader, any more information. Why is it a bad thing? What cool stuff am I missing by using LinkedIn and its restrictive API? Why should I put effort into an alternative?

arcatek 12y ago
I wonder if it has to do with the MASSIVE amount of head hunter spam that we may get from LinkedIn. Maybe they actually restrict its access for the Greater Good?
- maineldc 12y ago
  That spam IS the LinkedIn business model and it's not coming from 3rd party apps that have access to the API - it's coming from LinkedIn's main site and the (premium) features they offer.
josefdlange 12y ago
This. Making potentially baseless claims and not explaining their impact beyond "they're bad!" is the kind of rhetoric a middle schooler uses before he or she learns to write proper persuasive prose. While I agree that data should be as freely available as possible--so long as the person to whom the data belongs approves--I really can't get on board with this histrionic garbage. Make an assertion. Back it up with evidence. Explain the consequences.
- ruperp 12y ago
  We tweaked the copy a bit. Would love your suggestions on something better. Thanks for the constructive feedback!
  - siddharthdeswal 12y ago
    What did you tweak? I'm not a technical person so don't understand why those specific use-cases are bad. If you want the majority of Linkedin users to care about the cause, you ought to put it in language that the vast, non-technical majority will understand.

jwiley 12y ago

It would be helpful to have real-world examples of who is losing out due to this and why...beyond the entire free peoples of the internet (some of whom I'm sure do not use linked in).

nostromo 12y ago

This article is more informative about why they are upset with LinkedIn: http://www.wired.com/2015/02/linkedin-api/ http://www.wired.com/2015/02/linkedin-api/ tl;dr: LinkedIn is pulling a Twitter. I can't say I'm surprised. It's a common pattern: Step 1: plant a nice open garden that attracts lots of people. Step 2: put wall around garden.

robbd7 12y ago
That's how I would play Roller Coaster Tycoon
johnchristopher 12y ago
Thanks for the tldr; but what does `pulling a Twitter` mean ?
- slig 12y ago
  Closing down APIs once they're big enough to not care more about developers and early adopters.
_Adam 12y ago
Hmm. Interesting if this decision was ultimately responsible for Twitter's declining traffic. Perhaps the same will happen to Linkedin? Of course even if it does we won't have evidence of causation, but it's something to keep in the back of our minds.
logn 12y ago
Step 3: stop watering the grass. Step 4: hope the walls are high enough.
dikaiosune 12y ago
Netflix did this recently too, IIRC.

friendlyguy85 12y ago

>Stop using Linkedin >Here is a list of 16 sites where you need to be registered at teh same time to have an access to the same audience as on linkedin

WalterSear 12y ago

All alternatives miss the main reason that people use linked in, which is it's social graph.

Casseres 12y ago

Develop a better service for the end-user, and I'll use it. Once enough people are using it, then I'll stop using LinkedIn. And more details with a clear explanation of why the website wants us to stop using LinkedIn would be appreciative.

getdavidhiggins 12y ago

If your digital life is portable from the outset, then smear-campaign sites like this don't need to happen. LinkedIN data silos are purely symptomatic of people choosing services where the data is not portable in the first place. Choose services where you can export, and migrate data before the fact, not after it. Also see * http://indiewebify.me/ http://indiewebify.me/ * http://dataportability.org/ http://dataportability.org/ Checkout the #ownyourdata initiative also.

Sivart13 12y ago

So I should stop using LinkedIn because they're restricting the amount of access that third parties have to my data? As I see it, the only thing worse than LinkedIn spamming me based on my employment history is other companies spamming me based on my LinkedIn employment history. There's many reasons to stop using LinkedIn, but this doesn't seem like one.

shravvmehtaa 12y ago

Linkedin has been known to shut down competing services prior to this. At hired.com, our API access was revoked (a long while ago), and many of our users were no longer able to login.

jspiral 12y ago
you guys rejected me as a customer even though my team is building data science stuff on open source technologies, because my employer does translation which is "a competing staffing service".
- vivekpreddy 12y ago
  Likewise with us. Hypocritical to claim that Linkedin takes anti-competitive practices when Hired.com employs similar tactics. At least Linkedin still allows competitors to have Linkedin profiles.

btipling 12y ago

API issues aside, I recently deleted my LinkedIn account and my life has been better off for it. My recruiter spam volume dropped from daily emails to maybe two or three times a month. I'm not sure if LinkedIn provides any value, I've never gotten a job that way. I think stalking people on social networks is also a net negative experience. I realized I should spend less time worrying about what other people are doing with their lives and focus more on my own. There was also a recent NY Times article about how employers use LinkedIn candidates contacts to disqualify them for employment[1]. So LinkedIn can actually be detrimental to your career. I just don't think LinkedIn adds anything. Businesses and recruiters use it to get your email to target you for spam. But what do you get out of it and think, if there wasn't a LinkedIn would you be out of a job right now? [1] http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/09/technology/on-linkedin-a-reference-list-you-didnt-write.html http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/09/technology/on-linkedin-a-r...

FD3SA 12y ago
Agreed with all of your points, but I'd like to add that your employment history is very personal and can quite often be used against you in ways you wouldn't imagine ahead of time. Just like any personal information, its best to keep it as private as possible and default to a "need to know" basis. The era of naively optimistic voluntary sharing of sensitive personal information ended when we saw the potential consequences. Potential employers want to know where you worked? They can ask you themselves. I'd also like to know who the board members are playing golf with, what their future capitalization plans are and if/when they plan on jumping ship. Too bad none of that will ever be shared with me. So why should I share intimate details of my past? Information asymmetry is power in the modern world. It is foolish to relinquish it voluntarily.
- jsprogrammer 12y ago
  >Information asymmetry is power in the modern world. And likely favors those who place lots valid information into the world, not those who keep it secret.

hughguiney 12y ago

As someone who is looking for work and finds nearly all of it through LinkedIn, canceling my account is not something I can afford to do at this time. As much as I empathize with the Open Web mission, opting out of LI is the privilege of happily employed developers.

rjdagost 12y ago

Yet another demonstration of the hazards of building a business on a platform that's entirely controlled by someone else.

abdelhai 12y ago

Sorry for my shameless plug here but we are developing a LinkedIn alternative for Developer, it's called devolio.net[1] and we will launch open beta in March. We will support the open jsonresume.org formats and unrestricted profile viewing experience (no sign in walls) . Plus we are just focusing on developers, so it has no annoying fake business people. [1] https://devolio.net/ https://devolio.net/

dkarapetyan 12y ago

Dear programmers, if you are using linkedin you are doing it wrong. Use github, careers.stackoverflow, a plain html resume page, the ladders, and basically anything else that is not linkedin to showcase your skillset.

mindcrime 12y ago
LinkedIn is useful for more than just "showcasing your skillset" though.
- dkarapetyan 12y ago
  How is that? The only thing I've ever gotten from them is a shitty user experience, overabundance of dark UI patterns, and recruiter spam.
  - mindcrime 12y ago
    Oh I don't know... how about keeping track of former co-workers, people you meet at networking events, and other professional connections? How about finding useful interesting industry or topic specific news and discussion via groups? Or if you are job-hunting, for finding a path to somebody who works at the company you're targeting, so you can try to get an inside testimonial? Or getting a warm intro when trying to contact VC's or Angel investors? Or perhaps for looking up an individual before meeting them in a professional setting, so you have some background on their experience / interests / etc? I mean, really, there are a million ways that LinkedIn is useful. The fact that they suck in so many other ways is pretty much orthogonal. Yeah, I think we'd all prefer a site like LinkedIn that somehow manages to avoid "recruiter spam" and all that, but for me personally, I can tolerate a little recruiter spam... and hell, every once in a while I get something like that, that is actually interesting enough to pursue.
    - dkarapetyan 12y ago
      I don't think you're a programmer or maybe you were but are now at a higher level. My advice was more for practicing programmers than others. I personally get zero value out of linkedin. All the people I consider professional equals can be found on mailing lists, blogs, weekly digests, stackoverflow, meetups, etc. Keeping track of them is quite easy and I don't need a third party in that process that just spams me.

dlu 12y ago

Is anyone really surprised? Ideologically upset? Sure, but we learned this with Twitter and tons of other companies. The APIs are there's to support or pull

halayli 12y ago

Looking at the alternatives listed, it's clear that they have no competitor.

eggbrain 12y ago

I think one of the most frustrating things is hearing how many people seem to dislike LinkedIn, but use it because it's the best thing out there. Most only use it as their online resume, but between recruiter spam messages and constant annoyances from emails and to "keep up to date", they tolerate it at best. Facebook had similar rumblings (people saying they'd switch off as soon as possible if something better came along), but Google Plus showed us the social costs of switching was higher than the frustration most people felt. Does LinkedIn have that same social cost of switching to another service? I'm not so sure -- and I think it means they might be more susceptible to falling flat on their face if they push users too far.[1] [1] This may just be my own hope and bias, since I built a job website of my own.

juancastro 12y ago

Well... I never thought about this before...

jchomali 12y ago

Me either

jchomali 12y ago

Me either

swalsh 12y ago

The problem with a lot of these sites (facebook/linkedin) etc is their business is built on data you provided, which they then get to control. The problem is additional data gets built up, and they gain a monopoly on the information. It results in an unfair market. For me to build a competitor to facebook or linkedin would be very difficult. Even if its better! I'd like to see a law about user obtained data, that requires it always be programatically accessible.

logn 12y ago
It's called fair use but people have this idea that Robots.txt was a bill passed by Congress. But yes, I totally agree, and sites like Stack Overflow are doing this very well. It's a shame that Archive.org was not allowed to crawl my profile before I left last year but that they allowed Google/Bing/etc to crawl it.

pearjuice 12y ago

In theory all this stop using X campaigns sound amazing as in this era value and revenue of X is often determined by its active users. Vote with your wallet! Practically, only a subset of all active users will actually care and permanently stop using X until the situation has improved. In the end, cost of living without X is often bigger than the association you feel with the campaign its values. If there were solid alternatives straight away and everyone would switch, that cost would decrease but until then "stop using linkedin", " drop dropbox", "don't buy Nike" are just drops in the ocean. Which is a bummer because if you would be able to actually manoeuvre a big enough user base, those campaigns would certainly be effective due to the "adapt or run out of business" effect it has.

MagicWishMonkey 12y ago

LinkedIn screwed me over real good a few weeks back. They sent me an email saying "There are 108 people you might want to connect with", so I click on view all and it shows a giant list of people with checkmarks by their names. Nice. I uncheck all of them, and scroll through checking a few folks who I want to network with (5 people in total). Click next, it takes me to a screen showing the 5 people and the banner clearly says "Send connection requests to these 5 people?". I click next. The next screen says "Congratulations, we've sent connection requests to 300 people.". What the flying fuck? Ok, well that's a bummer but oh well, probably just a bug in their system. Then my inbox starts getting spammed with "I'm out of the office right now blah blah blah" from people who I don't even know who they are. The assholes sent 300 people linkedin connection requests through my own personal gmail account. With zero warning whatsoever. That really pisses me off. I like LinkedIn, it's a great networking tool, but they really need to stop doing this shit. Something similar happened a few years ago, but they only spammed people in my address book who were already members and the emails were sent by LinkedIn, not through my gmail account. I've revoked LinkedIn's access to my gmail account. I regret ever enabling it in the first place. I recommend you do the same. For those who don't know how: https://www.google.com/settings/security https://www.google.com/settings/security (click the view all button next to Apps and Websites).

basseq 12y ago
I don't think I ever granted them access, but somehow they got a list of random email contacts. So every once in a while I'll get an email that says, "Connect with Joe?" Looks like a normal inbound connection request, but it's actually a trap to get YOU to initiate a request. Awkward for contacts you might accept a request from, but not reach out to.
- karamazov 12y ago
  I suspect the other party gave LinkedIn their address book, and they're trying to maximize the odds of a connection.
  - basseq 12y ago

stonogo 12y ago

Can anyone use the phrase "undersigned and federated bodies of the internet" and expect to be taken seriously?

theaccordance 12y ago

Guessing that someone isn't happy that their lead generation app just lost its data input? This website is nothing more than a knee-jerk reaction that tries to rally readers by crafting a context that makes it sound as if LinkedIn's changes are not in the interest of the user. Yes, I would like open access to the API, but I'd gladly trade that if it helps reduce the volume of spam sales/recruitment inquiries I receive. The partnership integration route may have extra hoops to jump through, but it doesn't concern someone like myself who's anticipating LinkedIn integration with our product; our intent is not what LinkedIn is trying to curb.

ruperp 12y ago
Better integration doesn't mean spam (LinkedIn already has that feature in spades). It means allowing apps to leverage your work connections to provide better tools for you to use.
- theaccordance 12y ago
  Not sure where you're going with that, have you read the official post from LinkedIn or the Wired Article? That will help give better context to my comment.

ruperp 12y ago

OP here. So the FDR verbage is not popular. Anyone willing to help write better text? Please email contact@stopusinglinkedin.com and we'll get it swapped out. Apologies for the intro copy faux pas.

thesomelioma 12y ago
I'd feel better about helping you if I knew who you were. For all I know, you represent a shady company who tried to make bank by scraping LinkedIn data and creating customized phishing profiles.

codingdave 12y ago

I know Linkedin isn't perfect, but it does have one single use case fulfilled for me - the ability to have just enough of a connection to ex-coworkers, so that in the future if our paths ever do have reason to cross again, it is easy to make that happen. These aren't people I want to be on other social media with - they are purely coworkers who might be worth contacting again. And there are other ways to keep in touch... but for this particular use, Linkedin is a good option. And because that is my primary purpose for having an account, I have no problems with API usage that is more restricted. I don't want an ecosystem built up around linkedin's data. I don't see any potential for that to improve my life.

TheHypnotist 12y ago

They also recently put in some search restrictions, which for a very different set of reasons, makes me not like what they are doing.

op00to 12y ago

One of the "alternative" services these folks recommend is academia.edu - does anyone else find it really weird that a for-profit-not-even-remotely-degree-granting company is squatting in the .edu namespace?

obsurveyor 12y ago
It was assigned before 2001 so it's grandfathered in and isn't subject to the normal .edu rules.

jrochkind1 12y ago

I hate LinkedIn, and wish it was not a de facto requirement for getting a job in certain industries/areas. To make it not so, _users_ need to stop using Linked In. This OP is very developer-focused in it's audience, it will not be clear to the non-developer user (or even to many developers) what they are talking about at all, or why it matters. It is written assuming you already know what they're talking about and already agree with them about it. There are plenty of things that might matter to users and help convince users that Linked In is an untrustworthy company -- like, their email spamming/address-book-stealing practices. I was hoping the OP would be more user-focused in it's intended audience and more intentional in making a case.

jacquesc 12y ago
Developers are a huge resource for LinkedIn. The only reason they can sell their spammy products to recruiters is because those recruiters count on LinkedIn having quality people on their network to send it to. If everyone who didn't need a LinkedIn profile to get a job shut off their profile, LinkedIn's revenue would collapse quickly.
- jrochkind1 12y ago
  > If everyone who didn't need a LinkedIn profile to get a job shut off their profile... Right. And clearly someone that actually _needs_ a LinkedIn profile to get a job is not going to shut off their profile, which is the hard part. But either way, I think this OP is not written/structured as well as it could be to convince people to shut off their profiles and/or stop recruiting on it, it seems to be targetted more at people who write software for linked in API, and doens't do a great job of making the argument even there.

wazoox 12y ago

Linkedin provides me with a constant stream of useful contacts, leads, etc. Linkedin is by far the most useful social network to me.

pknerd 12y ago

So did someone share it on LinkedIn yet?

Djonckheere 12y ago

Among the alternatives listed is Behance -last time I checked this network was owned and operated by Adobe. btw, the stopusinglinkedin.com site links to behance.com which does not exist. It's behance.net Dribbble (the other design resource listed) I understand was co-founded by designer Dan Cederholm, but oddly if you visit his current Wikipedia page there's no mention of his involvement with Dribbble -only on his SimpleBits bio page: http://simplebits.com/about/ http://simplebits.com/about/

PaulHoule 12y ago

My beef with LinkedIn is that the user interface sux. I used to be a LION so I still have days when I have to filter 20 connection requests. I still accept connections if (1) you seem to be a person and (2) you use your real name (not the name of a business) The interface for accepting connection requests is painful and slow and so are the interfaces for doing other things on LinkedIn. I find myself using it less and less because it just takes too long to do things. By restricting the API they just make it harder to improve the UI.

pbreit 12y ago

LinkedIn's APIs have historically been very restrictive. I can sort of understand that LinkedIn feels/knows it's sitting on extremely valuable data except that on further inspection it's almost all public data that just happens to be decently organized.

ksenzee 12y ago

I wish there were some way to tell companies like LinkedIn not to create a shadow profile on you. I've never trusted LinkedIn enough to create an account - their email practices are too shady, and I'm totally happy with StackOverflow Careers - but I periodically get emails saying "Bill Former Coworker wants to connect with you!" (And then of course I get follow-up emails for several weeks.) I'm sure my shadow profile is quite accurate. For all I know, they're emailing people on my behalf saying "ksenzee wants to connect with you!"

shiggerino 12y ago

LinkedIn creeps me the hell out with their connection suggestions, that are way too accurate for for anyone to make through honest means, especially given that I've intentionally been very restrictive with what I've added to my profile. I've even been very uneasy about accepting connection requests, since this isn't something I really want to contribute to. Of course, that means the cost of deleting my account is very low given that I hardly use it in the first place. Something to think about.

lyschoening 12y ago
If you supplied your email, you have given LinkedIn everything needed for honest, accurate suggestions. They used the suggested contacts' address books.
smu3l 12y ago
Yes I'm always surprised by who shows up as suggested contacts. Often it's people who I've interacted with online maybe once. My best guess is that those people are providing LinkedIn their contact lists.
- walterbell 12y ago
  I wonder how many are Android users. iOS gives users the option of preventing apps from accessing contact data.
vitd 12y ago
I have a problem where I lived in a building with a bunch of people who turned out to be fairly dishonest. We all have each others email addresses because we had to communicate about the home-owners' association. I moved out, and now LinkedIn regularly suggests that I connect with these douchebags because I'm still in their address books.
a3n 12y ago
LinkedIn once suggested I connect with a neighbor in my apartment building. All we ever did was say hi to each other, we didn't know each other's names. The only reason I knew the connection suggestion was about this person was because of the photo. That was a WTF moment.

alfg 12y ago

I feel like LinkedIn is an evil necessity. It's so bloated and I never feel comfortable navigating or viewing anything on LinkedIn due to their nature of trying to connect or send emails without your approval. I'd really like if there was an alternative that can be just as popular, with simple resume hosting/networking capabilities. No bloat or shady practices.

jqm 12y ago

My opinion is that being on LinkedIn is like being on the shelf at WalMart (where the masses can easily find you). Most unique quality merchandise won't ever found on the shelves of a WalMart. That's a place for interchangeable, disposable, mass produced items. Oh, and Fuck companies that engage in scummy behaviour like email hijacking.

aendruk 12y ago

I created this page to help when filling out forms that presume I have a LinkedIn profile: https://Opt.outof.Link/edIn https://Opt.outof.Link/edIn

ndesaulniers 12y ago

Something is really fucked with their UI. It's very deceptive and deceitful. The other day, I thought I was accepting connection requests people had sent me. Found out that I was sending connection requests to people LinkedIn thought I knew! I can see how that could be considered useful, but it was not my intent to contribute to the noise and the spam that is LinkedIn.

suttree 12y ago

It's looking very likely that 2015 is going to be a #linkedout year. More and more stuff like this is happening, and LinkedIn can't keep up. They're an incredible company, but they're a 12 year old product at this stage. Take a look at my version of the alternative, trying to get ahead of them not replace them: https://www.somewhere.com https://www.somewhere.com

LukeB_UK 12y ago

I deleted my LinkedIn account a while ago. Their UI is full of dark patterns and the only thing I ever got out of their service was recruitment spam from people that hadn't actually read my profile. Since deleting my account, I get much less spam from recruiters. If I still get some, it's easy to get rid of them with a simple reply or a click on an unsubscribe link.

rilita 12y ago

LinkedIn, as used by the majority of resources ( not recruiters ), is free for what is needed. Why is it assumed that it is "unfair" for a company providing a free service to hoard the data you give to them? If you don't like LinkedIn, don't use it. If you don't like LinkedIn because they won't let you steal their data, then I'm sure they will be happy that you ignore them. Trying to convince people who don't care to stop using LinkedIn is pointless.

MadcapJake 12y ago
> Why is it assumed that it is "unfair" for a company providing a free service to hoard the data you give to them? It's unfair because LinkedIn had built a precedent of openness and made no indication that this was a temporary or limited offer (at least not a straightforward "hey this might shut off someday..." notice). Also from purely a market perspective, this is unethical as it's about providing a business platform to others and then closing it once your in-house solutions begin to compete with those you've opened the platform to. > If you don't like LinkedIn, don't use it. Problem is, LinkedIn is not just a tool, it's also a network. You can change it as you would a tool, but you'll leave behind the network. Now, get enough supporters to change with you, well then you may have done it! Similarly, the node.js/io.js tussle was/is about getting a better tool but required getting the network to come with (and this was probably what woke up Joyent). > Trying to convince people who don't care to stop using LinkedIn is pointless. You may not care but it certainly is a stretch to claim that others don't care (though at face-value, your statement is actually a truism). I would argue that the majority would/will care as long as a strong enough effort is made to show them why. (Also, this link has 200+ points and 100+ comments...)
Retra 12y ago
I don't know why people make these kinds of comments. "If you don't like X, don't use it." You can't know if you like it until after you've used it, and by then it is too late. It seems to me like you'd have to be really out of touch with how the world works to say such a thing.

Luckycharms721 12y ago

Oh Heck NO! I love the in!

whybroke 12y ago

One of the more disturbing issues with linkedin goes almost unnoticed: For what possible reason does linkedin effectively mandate a photo? Because while I can not think of any reason this could possibly be necessary for any profession except super model, I can certainly see how it can be used in a very negative way.

jpindar 12y ago
What do you mean? Lots of people don't have profile pictures.
patmcc 12y ago
I find it helps in recognizing connections - "Susan Smith? That doesn't ring a bell...ohhh that Susan, I guess she married and took his name." But I take your point, it can absolutely be used in a negative way.

ninv 12y ago

Who's Viewed Your Profile or your updates. This feature is enough to avoid Linkedin. I am scared to click on any profile in linkedin just because of this feature. I always use incognito mode to look up folks in Linkedin. It is a creepy site. Wait till your connections can submit hidden reviews about you and potential employers can view it for a small fee, like Carfax.

driverdan 12y ago
There's a privacy option to disable that.
tokai 12y ago
I have used that as a feature before applying to a job. I went to the profile of every employee of that firm, before sending my application. My hope was that my name and face would seem familiar to the people interviewing me. I don't know if it paid off, but I ended up getting the job.

gsam 12y ago

If you think you can subvert the business or sociological aspects of hiring and working, you are sadly mistaken. While people still use it, I'll keep a profile up, otherwise bear the mistake of being the 'inept' person without a LinkedIn.

redeleven 12y ago

I have been wondering when someone will step up and make a decent alternative to LinkedIn for a while. It's a truly awful site, the sole reason I have not yet deleted it is I have no other easy way of keeping track of professional relationships.. there are no other redeeming features though, everything else seems very poorly implemented, uninteresting, or exploitative.

ychandler 12y ago

Aside from startups trying to find their customer base and integrating with LinkedIn, do we have any SMBs/mid-stage Startups (Proven Business Models) on HN who have lost their livelihood now given where LinkedIn is going?

dynofuz 12y ago

This is why i never started using it. They've been using these tactics since day one. Spam.

SwellJoe 12y ago

You had me until "Quora" as a suggested alternative. If any site approaches the annoyance level of LinkedIn for me, it's Quora. Both have a habit of spamming me; their unsubscribe stuff is kinda dark pattern-y, in that it's easy to end up still getting mail from them even after clicking through to unsubscribe. That said, I haven't used LinkedIn in years. Have no interest in it, for anything. If I needed work, I might consider going back, but I doubt it. I certainly wouldn't hire someone based on a LinkedIn profile, and I probably wouldn't want to work for someone who did.

LawoftheHarvest 12y ago

Quota and Product Hunt are alternatives to LinkedIn?

andrewstuart 12y ago

I just find it incredibly creepy that LinkedIn seems to know that I am connected to certain people - I cannot imagine they worked out that I do in fact know that person - not by any obvious means.

liquidcool 12y ago
It was posited that your email in their contact list might trigger it, but I've seen it happen after I viewed someone's profile. It appears to guess that X days after viewing the profile, you may now know them.

a3n 12y ago

The only thing I use LI for is to hang my name and summary somewhere. Occasionally I get a recruiter contact. My current job of three years came from that. I never endorse anyone. I never respond to endorsements, as most of them are well meaning people endorsing me for something I've never done; I contact them personally by email to say "I don't do endorse, but thanks, still love ya." I never respond to connect requests. They're increasing in number, and lately sound like 419 scams. I'm virtually never logged in. They don't have my email access or adddress book. If they die, or charge me, or something egregiously slimy ... so what. They aren't the only way to connect with people. I actually expect them to go the way of GroupOn (are they still around?). Just minimize your LinkedIn exposure surface and interaction and you'll be fine.

slaction 12y ago

People actually use LinkedIn more that a couple of times a year?

DyslexicAtheist 12y ago
it has turned into a publishing platform which is what they have done right compared to their competition (Xing, Viadeo). useful or not they manage to keep people engaged and coming back.

sidcool 12y ago

Why Quora?

qthrul 12y ago

+10 years on LinkedIn +2000 connections Lots of recommendations and endorsements and I wiped it all BTW, I'm running this tweet update series when people actually notice. https://twitter.com/JayCuthrell/status/551254076164288513 https://twitter.com/JayCuthrell/status/551254076164288513 Spoiler alert: < 0.2% of my "connections" noticed

Aoyagi 12y ago

I stopped using LinkedIn right after I heard that it harvests contact details from emails. Thankfully, being "paranoid", I've never allowed it to access that data. After that I deleted my account. Two years later, I received the "these are the people you might know!" email... No need to tell me to not use that service.

jeffehobbs 12y ago

STEP 1: Build open API for content. STEP 2: Wait until third-party builds innovative product X on API, more innovative than existing engineering staff could build. STEP 3: Buy third-party company, aquire product X. STEP 4: Shut down open API so no one can improve upon product X.

apa-sl 12y ago

I'm happy with Opera browser since the days when they were still serving ad banners :)

DyslexicAtheist 12y ago

revoke access: https://security.google.com/settings/security/permissions?hl=en&pli=1 https://security.google.com/settings/security/permissions?hl...

friendly_viking 12y ago

A lot of interesting arguments for and against in the comments over the past two days. The restriction of API is the same that Twitter did when they became more keen on controlling aspects of the app community. Whether or not that has led to decline in the traffic can be debated, or whether it was just 'time'. It is of course LI's prerogative, but a short sighted view of the world, when over the last 10+ years LinkedIn has shown little ability to innovate and evolve the service - third parties could - and they should find ways to encourage (and monetize) that The proliferation of alternatives as suggested on stopusinglinkedin indicates there are better ways of connecting with professionals. Professionals who understand your space and less spammy/generalist ways to find permanent and freelance work - if that is your objective. There is most certainly room in the world for a more niche approach to something as important in our lives as that which generates our income. We have been building www.somewhere.com for a bit now, trying to have quality conversations about work. Sort of by accident people are now using it to find each other for projects. That puts us in the same category as Dribbble and Behance (without the behemoths behind the scenes), yet we are different in that we want to talk about how the sausage is made and not just show the end product. Will that be a 'winning' strategy? Time will tell, we are curious about work, how we do it, when and where and most importantly why - something others have not decided to focus on, but which we believe should be at the core when trying to find people with whom to work. Anyway - API or not, LinkedIn is not the only game in town, perhaps they have gotten too big for their own good, perhaps they will do just fine with their 300M+ users and corporates willing to spend good money for volume...either way - we can all build and support alternatives that work better.