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I lived in an apartment where 6 out of 8 apartments were occupied by alcoholics or drug addicts. Nearly every block on that street was the same. This was Gla
by mamer 12y ago
I lived in an apartment where 6 out of 8 apartments were occupied by alcoholics or drug addicts.
Nearly every block on that street was the same. This was Glasgow, and the drug of choice was heroin, although everyone also smoked as much marijuana as they could afford. These people's lives weren't particularly shit on a day-by-day basis, but they had nothing but misery on the horizon. If they had kids they would lose them, they would never work, never be praised. They'd never see the world. Most of them hadn't been outside Glasgow for years, if not the whole of their lives. They would probably never go to the beach or on even the shittest package holiday. Those who were obviously junkies (struggling to walk, sunken faces and destroyed skin) were basically seen as an underclass by everyone from their peers, to the rest of the population and the police.
But there were people living in the same street, in the same apartments, with far less money, working shitty jobs, who weren't even open to taking drugs. The structure of this area wasn't bad at all - it could have been Rat Park, if it wasn't filled with drug-addicted rats who just pissed in the common areas and threw their rotting food out of the window.
I don't have any great insight here - but I think there's more to it than environment as suggested by this study. There are people all around the world who live in far worse conditions and who aren't turning to substances, even when they are available.
My feeling is that rats living in cages, who can see rats living in Rat Park would be more likely to seek addiction. And perhaps even more so if they see other rats being moved from cages to Rat Park, but not them. I don't know if rats could understand this concept though, which might be why they aren't all living in Afghanistan's poppy fields.
- Retric 12y agoIt's important to note that people’s environment is heavily influenced by their social circle. Day to Day a poor person that has a strong social circle and some free time to sit around and play cards can be happier than say an elderly widower who might have plenty of resources but few friends or family left alive. IMO, Rat Park would have been far more interesting if they had presented rats with identical environments but the difference being social isolation not just living in a tiny cage.
- njharman 12y agoI think the basic question are "loosers" made or born. That is, does someone with a bright future try drugs and then spiral down the shitter as is commonly portrayed in media and government anti-drug propaganda. Or, does someone who is a fuck up, failure at life, find themselves in the shitter and start using drugs to avoid their looser life. I'm sure, as in most things, the reality is a gradient between those extremes. But it sure seems majority only believe / see first extreme.
- api 12y agoI suspect it's not all environment, but this study argues that environment (and social realities, etc.) are a significant component -- it's not just a matter of chemical dependence only.
- spb 12y agoSo, basically, you lived in Trainspotting?
- Brakenshire 12y ago> I don't have any great insight here - but I think there's more to it than environment as suggested by this study. There are people all around the world who live in far worse conditions and who aren't turning to substances, even when they are available. My feeling is that rats living in cages, who can see rats living in Rat Park would be more likely to seek addiction. And perhaps even more so if they see other rats being moved from cages to Rat Park, but not them. To a certain degree it comes down to a semantic argument about how you define environment. * Just the structural physical environment - nice benches, and trees, flats that are a decent size, and don't have mould on the walls, etc * this plus the consequences of other people on the physical environment - needles left in parks, shouting in the corridors, people pissing in the lift * this plus the immediate social environment - you are treated badly because you look like a drug addict * this plus the cumulative internalized values that you have picked up from your social environment throughout your lifetime - other people living successful, prosperous lives around you, or in mass media, and you falling short of your expectations Rats don't necessarily have the latter two, at least I don't think they have a social stigma for drug addiction! For humans, the parallels are inevitably to some degree limited, because you can't just take someone out of their own mind, and put them somewhere where they feel good about themselves, although you can try, and will succeed with many.
- frozenport 12y agoI like this post because it reminds us that humans have a complicated society, unlike rats. Which can muddle the conclusions of this study. >> I don't know if rats could understand this concept though, which might be why they aren't all living in Afghanistan's poppy fields. And indeed humans don't.
- patal 12y ago>> complicated society, unlike rats. Which can muddle the conclusions of this study Or rather of any study trying to deduce from rats onto humans. And that's not to say that rats have a non-complicated society.