5 ms·

Ask HN: what's stopping you from launching?

30 points by evancaine 17y ago

hearing about Paul Bucheit's first version of gmail always makes me realise how much of a perfectionist I'm being. what's stopping you from releasing a demo/beta right now? For me, it's the design.

yan 17y ago
For me, it's getting over the attrition of not starting what I really want to work on.
fjabre 17y ago
Yep. Same here: design. Well that and we've spent so much time on the main app that we don't have a workable login yet - our login process is akin to 37signals where we subdomain the account i.e. yourcompany.domain.com so it's not that straight forward. So for us it's literally too early to release since no one could sign up. One thing we could do is have a signup with an email for news of our pending release... but we're still fine tuning exactly what message we want to release with. This may be a huge mistake on our part but only time will tell. I'll be sure to share our experience releasing 'late', good or bad, with the HN community.
- dan_sim 17y ago
  Why the subdomain? Can someone explain why a lot of app are doing it? Personally, I avoid using an app that uses a subdomain.
  - pchristensen 17y ago
    I believe it makes it easier to partition traffic and different subdomains can have different configurations. See also http://stackoverflow.com/questions/918971/when-should-i-use-or-avoid-subdomains http://stackoverflow.com/questions/918971/when-should-i-use-... and http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/subdomains-and-subdirectories/ http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/subdomains-and-subdirectories/
  - fjabre 17y ago
    It's the easiest way for us to direct them to their own VM and database. It also seems to work pretty well for all the 37signals apps and and few others that segment this way.
    - dan_sim 17y ago
      Ok, if you have a special case for your app and it uses virtual machines and things like that, I would understand. But, talking about them, why 37signals are doing it? They have "normal" web applications that don't require that kind of separation to be efficient.
    - fjabre 17y ago
      37Signals could probably do it some other way but this was the most convenient way for them it seems. They probably do it for the same reason we do: easy to direct traffic to different DBs and VMs this way, instead of waiting for the request to come in and direct it some other way. There might also be an added value to the business/account seeing their name in the url... Not sure about that one though.
  - ryanwaggoner 17y ago
    Why do you specifically avoid it?
    - bemmu 17y ago
      I sometimes found myself going to 37signals.com to access my basecamp project, and couldn't find a clear login box anywhere and felt lost and frustrated.
    - dan_sim 17y ago
      Like bemmu says, I don't remember where to log. If it's well-known site, I can live with it. If it's a new application that I just want to try, I just know that I will forget where to go.
  - gthank 17y ago
    At a guess, I'd say because it's a popular feature (appeals to vanity AND is easier to remember) that simultaneously makes it easier to load balance.
  - rykov 17y ago
    A few reasons off the top of my head where subdomains make sense: 1. Letting users override subdomain with a custom domain (ala Posterous) 2. White-labeling (esp. in combination with #1) 3. SEO - last I researched, Google sees virtual hosts on same IP as separate entities, so if your clients use a custom domain and you have a "Powered by" backlink, you'll get some SEO juice
BigCanOfTuna 17y ago
I'm actually concerned about the graphic design of my startup. There is a pay-for-service component to it, and I have this feeling that if it doesn't look professional, no one will trust it. Anyone think that is a valid concern?
- transburgh 17y ago
  It is a valid concern, but it would need to be bad to keep from launching (and thus improving based on analytics). It also depends on your audience. Are they more web savvy?
- Harj 17y ago
  yes it's a concern but not enough to stop launch (assuming a base level of usability in the current design). you can redesign after launch and track how it improved conversion rates.
- fjabre 17y ago
  It is a valid concern. Credibility is important for a startup. It also depends on what you're offering. If it's something remarkable then it won't matter as much. People will just want it and might look past things like design to get it. Usually though when people are opening up their wallets they want to make sure the service is credible and the overall design is the first thing that helps them make this distinction, followed by a blog, founding team descriptions, press mentions etc...
- Tawheed 17y ago
  isn't worrying about your graphics design just a proximate cause of fear? we constantly pick at and spin around one little thing when we're afraid of moving forward and getting to the real root of the problem.
- bemmu 17y ago
  I don't know what your startup is, but how can having something out there be worse than having nothing out there?
- lwhi 17y ago
  If it looks like time has been spent on attention-to-detail - and the application's approach has been thought out well, there's a fair chance visitors will view the app as a quality product regardless of graphical finesse. Maybe the best approach to take when good graphic design is in short supply, is to keep it simple - and strip back all graphic elements that have no strict purpose?
Tawheed 17y ago
fear of failure. once you get it out there, it will be the true test.
- sid 17y ago
  As much as i would like to say its this little defect, that minor defect or "i need to do abit more market research", its pretty much what tawheed said, fear that what i built isnt good enough, there are things that i didnt think of that will make it crash, people wont like it.Im over it now though, we are at our final week and regardless we gonna launch real soon
- d_graffito 17y ago
  We felt the same way, but pushed it out early. Many things have clearly failed, but as a result we have learned an enormous amount about our users.
- dpcan 17y ago
  Initially I thought "failure" as well. But it turns out, I could care less about "failing", it's my fear of PROBLEMS that stop me from launching. I have a lot of stuff in my life to take care of already. If launching a product means more problems and little extra money, I definitely procrastinate. Here are just a few problems I worry about before launch (just off the top of my head): 1) Connection problems that aren't even something I can personally fix (client-side) 2) Feature requests. Tweak requests. People that don't understand that the app isn't a CUSTOM program and wonder why they can't get what they want even though they are paying for it. 3) Credit card payment processing problems. Denied cards, expired cards, overdraft cards, PayPal, Auth.net, 2co, etc. The problem of what to do with accounts when someone isn't paying or when someone says they are trying to pay, or will pay, but don't pay... blah blah blah. PROBLEMS!!! 4) Meetings and Training. The app can be STUPID SIMPLE, but there are still those corporate people that want a training session, or a conference call, white papers, or a live meeting to discuss the benefits of our app. Seriously. Pay $20-$100 and just find out. If you are thinking about my app that much, it's probably not for you. 4) Monitoring backups, restores, server problems, data center problems, storage space, vps, dedicated servers, s3, e3, cloud, load problems, twitter api, facebook connect, etc, etc, etc Problems, problems, problems, problems. Maybe this isn't an issue when you have VC, but in the bootstrapping world, failure doesn't matter as much as PROBLEMS do.
vessenes 17y ago
Re-brand, user login system, some items that probably aren't critical but at least one person on the team feels 'has to be there'. This makes me want to release an alpha today. Okay, maybe tomorrow.
mooders 17y ago
Two things - the design is, well, okay but extremely simple.. It just doesn't have that finished look about it. And the app itself is incredibly simple, which makes me second guess myself as to whether it is too simplistic that users won't pay the few bucks I intend to charge for it. I keep telling myself that they pay for value, not the number of lines of code...
- leeskye 17y ago
  Is it useful? I love Fried's point about your product being useful. Useful>Innovative.
vgurgov 17y ago
Can 100% understand this feeling and this is how I fight with this - just release this damn thing! Not even restricting alfa beta invite only users, just do whatever you can, get feedback and keep improving it! Design never can be perfect - even getting best designers workin on my site i still keep finding issues with it. Its just endless process, and most of your client(not timewasters but client) really dont give it that much attention as you do! Remember you will loose few clients today but you will learn on you mistakes today also. JUST DO IT!
levirosol 17y ago
Lack of functionality was holding me back. Then it was no mechanism for feedback. I'm still thin on functionality and copy, but I have a feedback mechanism now. www.SportsLeeg.com Getting over the "first release" hurdle is tough. So many "what if"'s remain. Once it's out though, motivation goes through the roof to keep things running tight and releasing often. I find myself releasing 3-4 times a week now. Even for small stuff.
neurotech1 17y ago
My Biggest issue is that when you take the leap from "side project" to start-up, there has to be reasonable confidence that the idea is unique enough to make it as a startup. Somehow I wont be building a search engine this week :)
christonog 17y ago
I'm having trouble discerning what the meaning of "launching" is when most people talk about it. Is it as simple as deploying something to a production server? Or trying to get one more feature in that initial release? Either way, there is no excuse for soft launching now if you have any working code.
auston 17y ago
I agree with pretty much everyone else - design is KEY. Hiring someone like MetaLab seems unrealistic to bootstrapper's - doing it yourself usually leaves a lack confidence (at least for me). But I don't think you should let design hold you back, if it's useful, people will use it, THEN you can invest your real time / effort / money into making it look better.
weaksauce 17y ago
Here's a link to the video if you haven't seen it yet: http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/10/24/startup-school-paul-buchheit-on-why-he-sold-to-facebook/ http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/10/24/startup-school-paul-buc... I couldn't find it on justin.tv Edit: Oops that's not the full video. Does anyone have the full video?
- bemmu 17y ago
  I'm looking for it too. That part seems to be missing from justin.tv.
kloncks 17y ago
Simple for me. I am not done yet... Sorry if that was too inappropriate for a serious topic. What stopped me in the past was always the design/look of the site.
cmelbye 17y ago
Ease of use problems. Users have to upload SSL certificates, and Ruby's OpenSSL library is lacking in features and it's missing a lot of documentation, which is hindering efforts to handle different types of certificates and verification. Might give a message queue + a Python script a try...
megaduck 17y ago
Plain old incompleteness. There's a number of bits where either the interface or the backend component aren't finished yet. Unfortunately, they're not optional. The launch will be soon, though. We've got a big roadmap, but that's not going to stop us from launching the moment the app does something (anything!) useful.
prabodh 17y ago
I am working on something for which similar products exists in the market place...So making my product beat the existing alternatives is taking time for me
symptic 17y ago
School for me. There seem to be a lot of mentions of 'design' though. Honestly, it doesn't matter how good or bad your product is. Get -something- out there for other people to use. Run a private beta of just 5-10 people at first who are willing to critique everything to the ground. Then your design will fall into place rather than trying to be "smart" about it initially. There is a difference between pretty design and converting design, and then there is a small group of designers capable of providing converting designs that are pretty. Your website need not be pretty to convert well though. My $.02. PS: No offense to PG and this wonderful community, but getting off the internet would probably help a lot of us more than it would hurt.
justlearning 17y ago
oddly enough for me - losing interest in the project. Once it's out there, I want to work on something else.
cmars232 17y ago
A worthwhile idea. After trying a few projects, I've come to realize that it's going to have to be something I care enough about to sacrifice my time and energy for and sell without feeling fake. I really have no clue what that is. All I want is cash money really.
- falsestprophet 17y ago
  from your profile: My dream is to make a big chunk of fk you money without having to do marketing or sales. Web commerce doesn't sound like the way to go for you. You want to be a Wall Streeter.
lwhi 17y ago
I think graphic design should be thought of as graphical engineering .. in the sense that a good graphic designer is always trying to find the very best way to approach a problem. Poor design isn't down to having bad aesthetic taste or lack of artistic skill - it's down to a lack of clarity in purpose. Good design is clear thinking made visual... to be able to achieve this, clear-thinking needs to be built into the processes and workflows of applications from the get-go. Too often, I think a lot of people see graphic design as a skin that can be slotted onto a second rate product to make it sing - and imo, this isn't the case.
wlievens 17y ago
A name for my game!

30 points by evancaine 17y ago

hearing about Paul Bucheit's first version of gmail always makes me realise how much of a perfectionist I'm being. what's stopping you from releasing a demo/beta right now? For me, it's the design.

yan 17y ago

For me, it's getting over the attrition of not starting what I really want to work on.

fjabre 17y ago

Yep. Same here: design. Well that and we've spent so much time on the main app that we don't have a workable login yet - our login process is akin to 37signals where we subdomain the account i.e. yourcompany.domain.com so it's not that straight forward. So for us it's literally too early to release since no one could sign up. One thing we could do is have a signup with an email for news of our pending release... but we're still fine tuning exactly what message we want to release with. This may be a huge mistake on our part but only time will tell. I'll be sure to share our experience releasing 'late', good or bad, with the HN community.

dan_sim 17y ago
Why the subdomain? Can someone explain why a lot of app are doing it? Personally, I avoid using an app that uses a subdomain.
- pchristensen 17y ago
  I believe it makes it easier to partition traffic and different subdomains can have different configurations. See also http://stackoverflow.com/questions/918971/when-should-i-use-or-avoid-subdomains http://stackoverflow.com/questions/918971/when-should-i-use-... and http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/subdomains-and-subdirectories/ http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/subdomains-and-subdirectories/
- fjabre 17y ago
  It's the easiest way for us to direct them to their own VM and database. It also seems to work pretty well for all the 37signals apps and and few others that segment this way.
  - dan_sim 17y ago
    Ok, if you have a special case for your app and it uses virtual machines and things like that, I would understand. But, talking about them, why 37signals are doing it? They have "normal" web applications that don't require that kind of separation to be efficient.
  - fjabre 17y ago
    37Signals could probably do it some other way but this was the most convenient way for them it seems. They probably do it for the same reason we do: easy to direct traffic to different DBs and VMs this way, instead of waiting for the request to come in and direct it some other way. There might also be an added value to the business/account seeing their name in the url... Not sure about that one though.
- ryanwaggoner 17y ago
  Why do you specifically avoid it?
  - bemmu 17y ago
    I sometimes found myself going to 37signals.com to access my basecamp project, and couldn't find a clear login box anywhere and felt lost and frustrated.
  - dan_sim 17y ago
    Like bemmu says, I don't remember where to log. If it's well-known site, I can live with it. If it's a new application that I just want to try, I just know that I will forget where to go.
- gthank 17y ago
  At a guess, I'd say because it's a popular feature (appeals to vanity AND is easier to remember) that simultaneously makes it easier to load balance.
- rykov 17y ago
  A few reasons off the top of my head where subdomains make sense: 1. Letting users override subdomain with a custom domain (ala Posterous) 2. White-labeling (esp. in combination with #1) 3. SEO - last I researched, Google sees virtual hosts on same IP as separate entities, so if your clients use a custom domain and you have a "Powered by" backlink, you'll get some SEO juice

BigCanOfTuna 17y ago

I'm actually concerned about the graphic design of my startup. There is a pay-for-service component to it, and I have this feeling that if it doesn't look professional, no one will trust it. Anyone think that is a valid concern?

transburgh 17y ago
It is a valid concern, but it would need to be bad to keep from launching (and thus improving based on analytics). It also depends on your audience. Are they more web savvy?
Harj 17y ago
yes it's a concern but not enough to stop launch (assuming a base level of usability in the current design). you can redesign after launch and track how it improved conversion rates.
fjabre 17y ago
It is a valid concern. Credibility is important for a startup. It also depends on what you're offering. If it's something remarkable then it won't matter as much. People will just want it and might look past things like design to get it. Usually though when people are opening up their wallets they want to make sure the service is credible and the overall design is the first thing that helps them make this distinction, followed by a blog, founding team descriptions, press mentions etc...
Tawheed 17y ago
isn't worrying about your graphics design just a proximate cause of fear? we constantly pick at and spin around one little thing when we're afraid of moving forward and getting to the real root of the problem.
bemmu 17y ago
I don't know what your startup is, but how can having something out there be worse than having nothing out there?
lwhi 17y ago
If it looks like time has been spent on attention-to-detail - and the application's approach has been thought out well, there's a fair chance visitors will view the app as a quality product regardless of graphical finesse. Maybe the best approach to take when good graphic design is in short supply, is to keep it simple - and strip back all graphic elements that have no strict purpose?

Tawheed 17y ago

fear of failure. once you get it out there, it will be the true test.

sid 17y ago
As much as i would like to say its this little defect, that minor defect or "i need to do abit more market research", its pretty much what tawheed said, fear that what i built isnt good enough, there are things that i didnt think of that will make it crash, people wont like it.Im over it now though, we are at our final week and regardless we gonna launch real soon
d_graffito 17y ago
We felt the same way, but pushed it out early. Many things have clearly failed, but as a result we have learned an enormous amount about our users.
dpcan 17y ago
Initially I thought "failure" as well. But it turns out, I could care less about "failing", it's my fear of PROBLEMS that stop me from launching. I have a lot of stuff in my life to take care of already. If launching a product means more problems and little extra money, I definitely procrastinate. Here are just a few problems I worry about before launch (just off the top of my head): 1) Connection problems that aren't even something I can personally fix (client-side) 2) Feature requests. Tweak requests. People that don't understand that the app isn't a CUSTOM program and wonder why they can't get what they want even though they are paying for it. 3) Credit card payment processing problems. Denied cards, expired cards, overdraft cards, PayPal, Auth.net, 2co, etc. The problem of what to do with accounts when someone isn't paying or when someone says they are trying to pay, or will pay, but don't pay... blah blah blah. PROBLEMS!!! 4) Meetings and Training. The app can be STUPID SIMPLE, but there are still those corporate people that want a training session, or a conference call, white papers, or a live meeting to discuss the benefits of our app. Seriously. Pay $20-$100 and just find out. If you are thinking about my app that much, it's probably not for you. 4) Monitoring backups, restores, server problems, data center problems, storage space, vps, dedicated servers, s3, e3, cloud, load problems, twitter api, facebook connect, etc, etc, etc Problems, problems, problems, problems. Maybe this isn't an issue when you have VC, but in the bootstrapping world, failure doesn't matter as much as PROBLEMS do.

vessenes 17y ago

Re-brand, user login system, some items that probably aren't critical but at least one person on the team feels 'has to be there'. This makes me want to release an alpha today. Okay, maybe tomorrow.

mooders 17y ago

Two things - the design is, well, okay but extremely simple.. It just doesn't have that finished look about it. And the app itself is incredibly simple, which makes me second guess myself as to whether it is too simplistic that users won't pay the few bucks I intend to charge for it. I keep telling myself that they pay for value, not the number of lines of code...

leeskye 17y ago
Is it useful? I love Fried's point about your product being useful. Useful>Innovative.

vgurgov 17y ago

Can 100% understand this feeling and this is how I fight with this - just release this damn thing! Not even restricting alfa beta invite only users, just do whatever you can, get feedback and keep improving it! Design never can be perfect - even getting best designers workin on my site i still keep finding issues with it. Its just endless process, and most of your client(not timewasters but client) really dont give it that much attention as you do! Remember you will loose few clients today but you will learn on you mistakes today also. JUST DO IT!

levirosol 17y ago

Lack of functionality was holding me back. Then it was no mechanism for feedback. I'm still thin on functionality and copy, but I have a feedback mechanism now. www.SportsLeeg.com Getting over the "first release" hurdle is tough. So many "what if"'s remain. Once it's out though, motivation goes through the roof to keep things running tight and releasing often. I find myself releasing 3-4 times a week now. Even for small stuff.

neurotech1 17y ago

My Biggest issue is that when you take the leap from "side project" to start-up, there has to be reasonable confidence that the idea is unique enough to make it as a startup. Somehow I wont be building a search engine this week :)

christonog 17y ago

I'm having trouble discerning what the meaning of "launching" is when most people talk about it. Is it as simple as deploying something to a production server? Or trying to get one more feature in that initial release? Either way, there is no excuse for soft launching now if you have any working code.

auston 17y ago

I agree with pretty much everyone else - design is KEY. Hiring someone like MetaLab seems unrealistic to bootstrapper's - doing it yourself usually leaves a lack confidence (at least for me). But I don't think you should let design hold you back, if it's useful, people will use it, THEN you can invest your real time / effort / money into making it look better.

weaksauce 17y ago

Here's a link to the video if you haven't seen it yet: http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/10/24/startup-school-paul-buchheit-on-why-he-sold-to-facebook/ http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/10/24/startup-school-paul-buc... I couldn't find it on justin.tv Edit: Oops that's not the full video. Does anyone have the full video?

bemmu 17y ago
I'm looking for it too. That part seems to be missing from justin.tv.

kloncks 17y ago

Simple for me. I am not done yet... Sorry if that was too inappropriate for a serious topic. What stopped me in the past was always the design/look of the site.

cmelbye 17y ago

Ease of use problems. Users have to upload SSL certificates, and Ruby's OpenSSL library is lacking in features and it's missing a lot of documentation, which is hindering efforts to handle different types of certificates and verification. Might give a message queue + a Python script a try...

megaduck 17y ago

Plain old incompleteness. There's a number of bits where either the interface or the backend component aren't finished yet. Unfortunately, they're not optional. The launch will be soon, though. We've got a big roadmap, but that's not going to stop us from launching the moment the app does something (anything!) useful.

prabodh 17y ago

I am working on something for which similar products exists in the market place...So making my product beat the existing alternatives is taking time for me

symptic 17y ago

School for me. There seem to be a lot of mentions of 'design' though. Honestly, it doesn't matter how good or bad your product is. Get -something- out there for other people to use. Run a private beta of just 5-10 people at first who are willing to critique everything to the ground. Then your design will fall into place rather than trying to be "smart" about it initially. There is a difference between pretty design and converting design, and then there is a small group of designers capable of providing converting designs that are pretty. Your website need not be pretty to convert well though. My $.02. PS: No offense to PG and this wonderful community, but getting off the internet would probably help a lot of us more than it would hurt.

justlearning 17y ago

oddly enough for me - losing interest in the project. Once it's out there, I want to work on something else.

cmars232 17y ago

A worthwhile idea. After trying a few projects, I've come to realize that it's going to have to be something I care enough about to sacrifice my time and energy for and sell without feeling fake. I really have no clue what that is. All I want is cash money really.

falsestprophet 17y ago
from your profile: My dream is to make a big chunk of fk you money without having to do marketing or sales. Web commerce doesn't sound like the way to go for you. You want to be a Wall Streeter.

lwhi 17y ago

I think graphic design should be thought of as graphical engineering .. in the sense that a good graphic designer is always trying to find the very best way to approach a problem. Poor design isn't down to having bad aesthetic taste or lack of artistic skill - it's down to a lack of clarity in purpose. Good design is clear thinking made visual... to be able to achieve this, clear-thinking needs to be built into the processes and workflows of applications from the get-go. Too often, I think a lot of people see graphic design as a skin that can be slotted onto a second rate product to make it sing - and imo, this isn't the case.

wlievens 17y ago

A name for my game!