9 ms·

> Samsung explained that these sorts of ads were supposed to be opt-in only and was working with Yahoo to improve the system. No user would opt-in to commercia

by snarfy 12y ago

> Samsung explained that these sorts of ads were supposed to be opt-in only and was working with Yahoo to improve the system. No user would opt-in to commercials, ever. I don't believe for a second this system was designed with opt-in in mind. Whenever an ill conceived feature like this is brought to the light, it's always explained as a bug, glitch, or some screw up in engineering. Well, it's not a bug. It was specifically designed to do what it does. If anybody screwed up it's the people at the top that think smart TVs are a good idea.

ChrisLTD 12y ago
Smart TVs are a good idea. Who doesn't want less crap plugged into their TV? However, TV manufacturers – for some reason – are ill-suited to developing the software that would make for a good experience.
- ohaal 12y ago
  Smart TVs being a good idea, all depends on who you are. It's good for TV manufacturers, because old TVs get older faster (outdated processor / software and so on). For consumers however, having a separate box for the "smart" part of your TV is much better, because it makes it easier to upgrade. Personally, I prefer the dumbest possible TV. Most of the time, I don't need a new panel, all I need is an upgrade of whatever smartbox I'm using at the moment. So far my Chromecast is carrying me quite well. The biggest upgrade of my TV I'll be doing in the near future will be an upgrade to 4K and/or maybe OLED down the line.
- andybak 12y ago
  Smart TVs are a terrible idea for the same reason that combined printer and scanners are a bad idea but with the negative aspect magnified many times. The cost and life expectancy of each part is very different and you don't want their replacement/upgrade to be tied together. A display panel should last you more than a decade and probably costs many 100s or 1000s. The 'smart' bit is probably worth less than $200 and is probably going to be obsolete in a couple of years. EDIT - another thing. I want the people that make my 'smart' box to be nimble, forward looking new media companies - not box shifters like Samsung, LG, Philips et al. Most Smart TVs have awful software (LG's purchase of WebOS might lead them to be an exception here) I've been asked by non-tech friends and relatives about SmartTVs many times and my answer is always "don't touch them with a barge-pole" and a link to a Roku/Chromecast/AppleTV etc.
  - a3n 12y ago
    I haven't bought a TV for five years (a Samsung, as it happens, plugged into a Roku). Can you even buy a TV that isn't smart these days?
    - pjmlp 12y ago
      In Europe yes.
    - pkfrank 12y ago
      Yes. Most big box retailers have an "in house" brand that is no-frills but still fairly quality. IE Insignia from Best Buy.
    - wil421 12y ago
      There are plenty of companies that sell budget TVs without Smart features. Visio, Magnavox, and even Samsung's low end TVs dont have Smart features. If you are looking for a top of the line TV it may be hard to find (but is the display really better than a budget Samsung, are we paying extra for Smart features?).
    - anon4 12y ago
      Yes, it's called a monitor. There are plenty of monitors that have hdmi inputs and a standard audio jack output for connecting to a set of speakers.
      - Roboprog 12y ago
        Like how you think. I'm not sure what the biggest monitor you can get is, though.
        jpindar 12y ago
        The largest monitor I am aware of is the one in the Dallas Cowboy's stadium, which is 72 feet by 160 feet and 1920 x 1080 resolution. The largest one a normal person can afford is of course a different question.
- higherpurpose 12y ago
  I think the opposite. Why would I buy a smart TV, pay the premium for that, get shitty software that I get stuck with for 10 years, including its obsolete hardware and processor, when I could just buy a $100 box that does the same thing if not more, made by companies who specialize in this stuff (Google, Apple, Roku, Amazon), and change it say every 3 years?
- astrodust 12y ago
  Every "Smart TV" I've seen is like a dumbed down version of a real device like a Chromecast or an Apple TV. How do you make something so brutally garbage, anyway? Some of these TVs take so long to register a button press you have to wonder if they aren't using a 6502 inside to power the thing. The only experience that's worse is those set-top boxes the cable companies provide you with. The Amiga had near flawless, real-time response and these things refresh at, maybe, a few frames per second.
  - omega_rythm 12y ago
    > The only experience that's worse is those set-top boxes the cable companies provide you with. I don't know about the American market. Over here (France), set-top boxen aren't so bad. And there are regular software upgrade; some of them even include games and apps.
    - ChrisClark 12y ago
      In Canada it's like he said though. Press a button, there is just enough of a delay to wonder if you pressed it hard enough, then it starts moving... slowly.
      - omega_rythm 12y ago
        It may have to do that often actions on set top boxes are related to accessing content, for which the software has to check permissions; these are usually embedded in the stream (think mumultiplexed), and the decoder needs to receive the frames before being able to extract the content and display it. Cable network has very high latency (compared to fiber or adsl). If some of the credential checks are stored in a separate device (dongle, smartcard ), then it could take even longer.
  - asd 12y ago
    What's worse is when you do not think that the Smart TV registered your button press and you send another after a second or two. Then you'll get two keypresses queued up and fire at once and then you have exited your app/screen/etc. Yay. DirecTV's apps (even on their latest Genie DVR) are the worst - you hit the right button and wait about 8 seconds for the apps to load. Why even bother? Someone surely tests these things and sees the laggish behavior and just say, "Fuck it! Good enough! Ship it and never update it!"
- dragonwriter 12y ago
  > Smart TVs are a good idea. Who doesn't want less crap plugged into their TV? I don't. For the same reason I don't want all-in-one desktop computers -- the display is both a substantial portion of the expense and the part that gets outdated the slowest. So, I'd rather replace the parts that provide the content to display separately from the display. I'd rather replace my Chromecast for new functionality than replace my TV.
- Htsthbjig 12y ago
  I don't. I bought a 55 inches LG OLED and basically connect it to a computer. It is an amazing device for work. In 2 or tree years I will change my computer, but not my screen. People are buying 4Ks screens today, with quantum dots LCDs and OLED you could display color for which no specification exist yet!! In one or two years you will have devices that could use the color space. There is very little content for 4K. No affordable computer is going to display google earth at 4Ks and 60 fps, but in the near future they will appear.
  - boobsbr 12y ago
    I have a Smat TV from LG and basically what it does is update itself through wifi. I don't have Netflix to watch on it. I don't share files on the network to stream from it. I don't watch Youttube on it, either through my phone or through the TV's app. I just plug my laptop into the HDMI port, my wife watches cable (most basic package with internet), I maybe play Xbox 360 twice a year. Most of the non-smart features are also useless for me. The standard settings are so good enough for me that I only switch input ports and change the volume.
- loco5niner 12y ago
  I disagree. Just like my printer, I want my display to be mostly dumb. Fewer things to break, first of all. Also, "smart" devices are usually pretty badly designed. I'll plug in my own choice of brain, thank you.
NoMoreNicksLeft 12y ago
Not strictly true. I use Plex, and I've opted into watching movie previews before the movie I choose actually plays. I get to control how many, what type they are (only for new movies, etc), when. It's nice. These are ads for other movies. But that I'm watching a movie sort of indicates I am interested in watching more movies in the future. These TVs were supposedly pausing a movie in the middle and rolling a Pepsi commercial. I already know about Pepsi. I do not like it. But assume I did... assume I did like it, how would I ever want to watch a Pepsi commercial? And this is true of everyone. No one who buys a $1000 Samsung television is ignorant of the existence of Pepsi. And if the ad isn't trying to inform the ignorant of a new product, what exactly are they hoping to accomplish? They're hoping to brainwash us. That's always unacceptable. But for Samsung to tell people that they no longer own their televisions, that they're no longer allowed to control them, that's bizarre.
omega_rythm 12y ago
> No user would opt-in to commercials, ever. I don't believe for a second this system was designed with opt-in in mind. The occidental mindset is heavily geared against advertising. If you got free rebate coupons, gifts, etc. as rewards for opting in, would you still refuse it? I'm trying to say that we don't necessarily see the whole picture, and the article doesn't give hints about the purpose of that "feature".
- 01Michael10 12y ago
  >If you got free rebate coupons, gifts, etc. as rewards for opting in, would you still refuse it? Yes
- bediger4000 12y ago
  * If you got free rebate coupons, gifts, etc. as rewards for opting in, would you still refuse it?* Absolutely. I've boxed my tee vee and put it in the garage for months at a time because of advertising.
- potatolicious 12y ago
  > "The occidental mindset is heavily geared against advertising." As opposed to the oriental mindset? Speaking as one, I'll still take no ads, thanks. IMO it's a mistake to look at East Asian cities (and the assault of advertising it presents) as some kind of preference for advertising - in the same way you can't look at LA and come away with the conclusion "wow, people really love being stuck in traffic!".
  - omega_rythm 12y ago
    Well, I don't know. I think that people from the west tend to see the negative aspect of advertising: people over here think "annoyance" (all the answers to my provocative post were like that — yeah, small sample, not significative), whereas in Asia it seems to me (but I may be wrong) that people see the positive side: the image I have is of people thinking "opportunity of bargain". Maybe I don't understand it. Websites filled with tiny ads, streets covered with neons and shop signs, they might very well pretend. And indeed, they don't have a choice, Like LA people stuck in traffic because there are no other ways, websites are just like that and consumers have to do with it.
btbuildem 12y ago
Technically, it's the people who bought the smart TVs that screwed up..
- boobsbr 12y ago
  Can you even buy a dumb TV anymore?
  - dragonwriter 12y ago
    > Can you even buy a dumb TV anymore? Its getting hard to buy something sold as a consumer TV that isn't a "Smart TV", but then, very few people need a TV, per se, these days. If your content comes from electronic devices rather than an antenna, what you really need is a monitor with HDMI ports -- and big, quality monitors are available. [0] And, even with an antenna, you can get an external tuner.
Evolved 12y ago
Someone at Samsung has been watching too much Black Mirror. I'm guessing Samsung has shelved the microtransactions to skip commercials...for now. This was definitely intentional and due to there being little punishment for this <s>feature</s> bug they likely wanted to see what they could get away with.

by snarfy 12y ago

ChrisLTD 12y ago

Smart TVs are a good idea. Who doesn't want less crap plugged into their TV? However, TV manufacturers – for some reason – are ill-suited to developing the software that would make for a good experience.

ohaal 12y ago
Smart TVs being a good idea, all depends on who you are. It's good for TV manufacturers, because old TVs get older faster (outdated processor / software and so on). For consumers however, having a separate box for the "smart" part of your TV is much better, because it makes it easier to upgrade. Personally, I prefer the dumbest possible TV. Most of the time, I don't need a new panel, all I need is an upgrade of whatever smartbox I'm using at the moment. So far my Chromecast is carrying me quite well. The biggest upgrade of my TV I'll be doing in the near future will be an upgrade to 4K and/or maybe OLED down the line.
andybak 12y ago
Smart TVs are a terrible idea for the same reason that combined printer and scanners are a bad idea but with the negative aspect magnified many times. The cost and life expectancy of each part is very different and you don't want their replacement/upgrade to be tied together. A display panel should last you more than a decade and probably costs many 100s or 1000s. The 'smart' bit is probably worth less than $200 and is probably going to be obsolete in a couple of years. EDIT - another thing. I want the people that make my 'smart' box to be nimble, forward looking new media companies - not box shifters like Samsung, LG, Philips et al. Most Smart TVs have awful software (LG's purchase of WebOS might lead them to be an exception here) I've been asked by non-tech friends and relatives about SmartTVs many times and my answer is always "don't touch them with a barge-pole" and a link to a Roku/Chromecast/AppleTV etc.
- a3n 12y ago
  I haven't bought a TV for five years (a Samsung, as it happens, plugged into a Roku). Can you even buy a TV that isn't smart these days?
  - pjmlp 12y ago
    In Europe yes.
  - pkfrank 12y ago
    Yes. Most big box retailers have an "in house" brand that is no-frills but still fairly quality. IE Insignia from Best Buy.
  - wil421 12y ago
    There are plenty of companies that sell budget TVs without Smart features. Visio, Magnavox, and even Samsung's low end TVs dont have Smart features. If you are looking for a top of the line TV it may be hard to find (but is the display really better than a budget Samsung, are we paying extra for Smart features?).
  - anon4 12y ago
    Yes, it's called a monitor. There are plenty of monitors that have hdmi inputs and a standard audio jack output for connecting to a set of speakers.
    - Roboprog 12y ago
      Like how you think. I'm not sure what the biggest monitor you can get is, though.
      - jpindar 12y ago
        The largest monitor I am aware of is the one in the Dallas Cowboy's stadium, which is 72 feet by 160 feet and 1920 x 1080 resolution. The largest one a normal person can afford is of course a different question.
higherpurpose 12y ago
I think the opposite. Why would I buy a smart TV, pay the premium for that, get shitty software that I get stuck with for 10 years, including its obsolete hardware and processor, when I could just buy a $100 box that does the same thing if not more, made by companies who specialize in this stuff (Google, Apple, Roku, Amazon), and change it say every 3 years?
astrodust 12y ago
Every "Smart TV" I've seen is like a dumbed down version of a real device like a Chromecast or an Apple TV. How do you make something so brutally garbage, anyway? Some of these TVs take so long to register a button press you have to wonder if they aren't using a 6502 inside to power the thing. The only experience that's worse is those set-top boxes the cable companies provide you with. The Amiga had near flawless, real-time response and these things refresh at, maybe, a few frames per second.
- omega_rythm 12y ago
  > The only experience that's worse is those set-top boxes the cable companies provide you with. I don't know about the American market. Over here (France), set-top boxen aren't so bad. And there are regular software upgrade; some of them even include games and apps.
  - ChrisClark 12y ago
    In Canada it's like he said though. Press a button, there is just enough of a delay to wonder if you pressed it hard enough, then it starts moving... slowly.
    - omega_rythm 12y ago
      It may have to do that often actions on set top boxes are related to accessing content, for which the software has to check permissions; these are usually embedded in the stream (think mumultiplexed), and the decoder needs to receive the frames before being able to extract the content and display it. Cable network has very high latency (compared to fiber or adsl). If some of the credential checks are stored in a separate device (dongle, smartcard ), then it could take even longer.
- asd 12y ago
  What's worse is when you do not think that the Smart TV registered your button press and you send another after a second or two. Then you'll get two keypresses queued up and fire at once and then you have exited your app/screen/etc. Yay. DirecTV's apps (even on their latest Genie DVR) are the worst - you hit the right button and wait about 8 seconds for the apps to load. Why even bother? Someone surely tests these things and sees the laggish behavior and just say, "Fuck it! Good enough! Ship it and never update it!"
dragonwriter 12y ago
> Smart TVs are a good idea. Who doesn't want less crap plugged into their TV? I don't. For the same reason I don't want all-in-one desktop computers -- the display is both a substantial portion of the expense and the part that gets outdated the slowest. So, I'd rather replace the parts that provide the content to display separately from the display. I'd rather replace my Chromecast for new functionality than replace my TV.
Htsthbjig 12y ago
I don't. I bought a 55 inches LG OLED and basically connect it to a computer. It is an amazing device for work. In 2 or tree years I will change my computer, but not my screen. People are buying 4Ks screens today, with quantum dots LCDs and OLED you could display color for which no specification exist yet!! In one or two years you will have devices that could use the color space. There is very little content for 4K. No affordable computer is going to display google earth at 4Ks and 60 fps, but in the near future they will appear.
- boobsbr 12y ago
  I have a Smat TV from LG and basically what it does is update itself through wifi. I don't have Netflix to watch on it. I don't share files on the network to stream from it. I don't watch Youttube on it, either through my phone or through the TV's app. I just plug my laptop into the HDMI port, my wife watches cable (most basic package with internet), I maybe play Xbox 360 twice a year. Most of the non-smart features are also useless for me. The standard settings are so good enough for me that I only switch input ports and change the volume.
loco5niner 12y ago
I disagree. Just like my printer, I want my display to be mostly dumb. Fewer things to break, first of all. Also, "smart" devices are usually pretty badly designed. I'll plug in my own choice of brain, thank you.

NoMoreNicksLeft 12y ago

Not strictly true. I use Plex, and I've opted into watching movie previews before the movie I choose actually plays. I get to control how many, what type they are (only for new movies, etc), when. It's nice. These are ads for other movies. But that I'm watching a movie sort of indicates I am interested in watching more movies in the future. These TVs were supposedly pausing a movie in the middle and rolling a Pepsi commercial. I already know about Pepsi. I do not like it. But assume I did... assume I did like it, how would I ever want to watch a Pepsi commercial? And this is true of everyone. No one who buys a $1000 Samsung television is ignorant of the existence of Pepsi. And if the ad isn't trying to inform the ignorant of a new product, what exactly are they hoping to accomplish? They're hoping to brainwash us. That's always unacceptable. But for Samsung to tell people that they no longer own their televisions, that they're no longer allowed to control them, that's bizarre.

omega_rythm 12y ago

> No user would opt-in to commercials, ever. I don't believe for a second this system was designed with opt-in in mind. The occidental mindset is heavily geared against advertising. If you got free rebate coupons, gifts, etc. as rewards for opting in, would you still refuse it? I'm trying to say that we don't necessarily see the whole picture, and the article doesn't give hints about the purpose of that "feature".

01Michael10 12y ago
>If you got free rebate coupons, gifts, etc. as rewards for opting in, would you still refuse it? Yes
bediger4000 12y ago
* If you got free rebate coupons, gifts, etc. as rewards for opting in, would you still refuse it?* Absolutely. I've boxed my tee vee and put it in the garage for months at a time because of advertising.
potatolicious 12y ago
> "The occidental mindset is heavily geared against advertising." As opposed to the oriental mindset? Speaking as one, I'll still take no ads, thanks. IMO it's a mistake to look at East Asian cities (and the assault of advertising it presents) as some kind of preference for advertising - in the same way you can't look at LA and come away with the conclusion "wow, people really love being stuck in traffic!".
- omega_rythm 12y ago
  Well, I don't know. I think that people from the west tend to see the negative aspect of advertising: people over here think "annoyance" (all the answers to my provocative post were like that — yeah, small sample, not significative), whereas in Asia it seems to me (but I may be wrong) that people see the positive side: the image I have is of people thinking "opportunity of bargain". Maybe I don't understand it. Websites filled with tiny ads, streets covered with neons and shop signs, they might very well pretend. And indeed, they don't have a choice, Like LA people stuck in traffic because there are no other ways, websites are just like that and consumers have to do with it.

btbuildem 12y ago

Technically, it's the people who bought the smart TVs that screwed up..

boobsbr 12y ago
Can you even buy a dumb TV anymore?
- dragonwriter 12y ago
  > Can you even buy a dumb TV anymore? Its getting hard to buy something sold as a consumer TV that isn't a "Smart TV", but then, very few people need a TV, per se, these days. If your content comes from electronic devices rather than an antenna, what you really need is a monitor with HDMI ports -- and big, quality monitors are available. [0] And, even with an antenna, you can get an external tuner.

Evolved 12y ago

Someone at Samsung has been watching too much Black Mirror. I'm guessing Samsung has shelved the microtransactions to skip commercials...for now. This was definitely intentional and due to there being little punishment for this <s>feature</s> bug they likely wanted to see what they could get away with.