6 ms·

I read it twice to see if there was any mention of the word 'Shenzhen'. It's difficult to not keep that in the loop, for a hardware startup anywhere in the worl

I read it twice to see if there was any mention of the word 'Shenzhen'. It's difficult to not keep that in the loop, for a hardware startup anywhere in the world. Even SF.

hugs 12y ago
I make robots in Chicago and sell them on Tindie. My top two competitors are in Finland and Japan. Yes, I hear Shenzhen is crazy awesome, but try not to let location dominate your world view of what is easy or difficult. Making a good hardware product is difficult, no matter where you make it.
- codemac 12y ago
  > try not to let location dominate your world view of what is easy or difficult Didn't YC move?
  - anujdeshpande 12y ago
    True that. Cambridge,MA initially.
  - hugs 12y ago
    Yes. Of course, I wish YC would take my advice, too! ;)
- anujdeshpande 12y ago
  I know what you mean. I make development boards(Tah) out of India. But I understand that most of what I use comes some way or the other from Shenzhen. A lot many times there are things that I am using which probably are outdated in China. Relevant article by bunnie : http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=4297 http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=4297
- rasz_pl 12y ago
  >I make robots in Chicago and sell them on Tindie sounds very scalable
  - emilepetrone 12y ago
    I founded Tindie. You would be shocked..
    - paulgerhardt 12y ago
      Haters gonna hate. You do good, keep it up.
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
- swamp40 12y ago
  >> I make robots in Chicago and sell them on Tindie. So, let's say now you need 10,000 of them. For 1/4 the price. Delivered next month. That's where Shenzhen starts looking really nice. Especially if you've already got reliable contacts there, like Bolt does with Dragon Innovation.
  - hugs 12y ago
    When I need to make 10,000 cheap and fast, yes, I'll most likely be making a pilgrimage to Shenzen. Totally agree with your point. But not every startup (especially low-volume, high-price, high-touch b2b) needs to focus at the start on making 10,000 units cheap and fast.
sama 12y ago
stay tuned.
- fown9 12y ago
  I hope this is the start of US bringing manufacturing back to the States. There needs to be a hardware alley in silicon valley, much like the hardware alley in Shenzhen. For one thing, China is still a communist government that is authoritarian and ignores environmental pollutions (to the world). It also ignores human rights, supports dictators in Africa, and props up totalitarian government in Russia. These are good reasons to not do business with China.
  - anujdeshpande 12y ago
    Also worth watching is India. The newly elected PM has taken "Make in India" quite seriously. The world's largest democracy is gearing up for a huge manufacturing boom. Cheaper than the States, humane conditions, English as a medium of communication and excellent economic relations with most countries.
    - fown9 12y ago
      No disrespect, but India has horrible infrastructure, horrible treatment of women (rape, disregards from police on harassment cases), and other horrible things.
      - nether 12y ago
        Witness, the HNer proffers his expert views on nations containing a billion people each
      - rattray 12y ago
        That's a lot of horrible. It's not all rainbows in India but downsides like the ones you mentioned are not all there is. That said, I was vastly more impressed with the infra in SZ than Bangalore. SZ is a modern metropolis where Bangalore, well... It has pockets of shiny corporate havens I the suburbs. (FWIW, I personally prefer the grit of downtown BGL to SZ anyway)
shashanksamala 12y ago
The resources listed here are geared for prototyping that allows rapid iteration of designs and ideas. From electronics prototyping (Tempo Automation) to mechanical (Fictiv). Having been to Shenzhen for manufacturing, it is absolutely great once you get to large volume - you can't beat the robust ecosystem anywhere. For initial runs of designs (quantity 1-10 of something), TIME is absolutely key: dealing with Shenzhen takes extensive communication and long lead times for each production run that a startup or even a big company can't afford.
- ahhrrr 12y ago
  Absolutely. At Other Machine Co., (https://othermachine.co/ https://othermachine.co/) our volumes just aren't big enough to go to Shenzhen yet. Not to mention the fact that the upfront costs require significant upfront capital investments. That's why we make a product that lets companies (including our own) prototype PCBs and other parts themselves.
  - bravo22 12y ago
    You can't mill any serious PCBs. Not for prototype and certainly not for production. What about vias, or soldermasks?! That machine is great for CNCing plastics and metals however.
    - joshvm 12y ago
      Why not? I've used milled PCBs for commercial prototypes as they're an order of magnitude cheaper than a fab given the turnaround time. You can get down to 0.5mm pitch easily. You don't get soldermasks and vias are normally riveted (good enough). For most people, two layers is enough and if you can design the board well you shouldn't need much routing on the second layer.
      - sbierwagen 12y ago
        What commercial products are you using that you don't do multilayer boards? Nothing that involves RF, or fast buses.
fown9 12y ago
I hope this is the start of US bringing manufacturing back to the States. There needs to be a hardware alley in silicon valley, much like the hardware alley in Shenzhen. For one thing, China is still a communist government that is authoritarian and ignores environmental pollutions (to the world). It also ignores human rights, supports dictators in Africa, and props up totalitarian government in Russia. These are good reasons to not do business with China.
- jseliger 12y ago
  This has arguably already started happening: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/10/made-in-america-again/379343 http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/10/made-in-... or http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2012/12/the-insourcing-boom/309166/ http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2012/12/the-inso...
anandhv 12y ago
Anyone have experience visiting Shenzen? Advice on making the most from a first visit is being discussed here. Would be awesome if anyone could share their tips. http://forum.upverter.com/t/first-trip-to-shenzen-what-should-i-not-miss/289 http://forum.upverter.com/t/first-trip-to-shenzen-what-shoul...
dmritard96 12y ago
Skipped on YC for this reason ;)

I read it twice to see if there was any mention of the word 'Shenzhen'. It's difficult to not keep that in the loop, for a hardware startup anywhere in the world. Even SF.

hugs 12y ago

I make robots in Chicago and sell them on Tindie. My top two competitors are in Finland and Japan. Yes, I hear Shenzhen is crazy awesome, but try not to let location dominate your world view of what is easy or difficult. Making a good hardware product is difficult, no matter where you make it.

codemac 12y ago
> try not to let location dominate your world view of what is easy or difficult Didn't YC move?
- anujdeshpande 12y ago
  True that. Cambridge,MA initially.
- hugs 12y ago
  Yes. Of course, I wish YC would take my advice, too! ;)
anujdeshpande 12y ago
I know what you mean. I make development boards(Tah) out of India. But I understand that most of what I use comes some way or the other from Shenzhen. A lot many times there are things that I am using which probably are outdated in China. Relevant article by bunnie : http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=4297 http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=4297
rasz_pl 12y ago
>I make robots in Chicago and sell them on Tindie sounds very scalable
- emilepetrone 12y ago
  I founded Tindie. You would be shocked..
  - paulgerhardt 12y ago
    Haters gonna hate. You do good, keep it up.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
swamp40 12y ago
>> I make robots in Chicago and sell them on Tindie. So, let's say now you need 10,000 of them. For 1/4 the price. Delivered next month. That's where Shenzhen starts looking really nice. Especially if you've already got reliable contacts there, like Bolt does with Dragon Innovation.
- hugs 12y ago
  When I need to make 10,000 cheap and fast, yes, I'll most likely be making a pilgrimage to Shenzen. Totally agree with your point. But not every startup (especially low-volume, high-price, high-touch b2b) needs to focus at the start on making 10,000 units cheap and fast.

sama 12y ago

stay tuned.

fown9 12y ago
I hope this is the start of US bringing manufacturing back to the States. There needs to be a hardware alley in silicon valley, much like the hardware alley in Shenzhen. For one thing, China is still a communist government that is authoritarian and ignores environmental pollutions (to the world). It also ignores human rights, supports dictators in Africa, and props up totalitarian government in Russia. These are good reasons to not do business with China.
- anujdeshpande 12y ago
  Also worth watching is India. The newly elected PM has taken "Make in India" quite seriously. The world's largest democracy is gearing up for a huge manufacturing boom. Cheaper than the States, humane conditions, English as a medium of communication and excellent economic relations with most countries.
  - fown9 12y ago
    No disrespect, but India has horrible infrastructure, horrible treatment of women (rape, disregards from police on harassment cases), and other horrible things.
    - nether 12y ago
      Witness, the HNer proffers his expert views on nations containing a billion people each
    - rattray 12y ago
      That's a lot of horrible. It's not all rainbows in India but downsides like the ones you mentioned are not all there is. That said, I was vastly more impressed with the infra in SZ than Bangalore. SZ is a modern metropolis where Bangalore, well... It has pockets of shiny corporate havens I the suburbs. (FWIW, I personally prefer the grit of downtown BGL to SZ anyway)

shashanksamala 12y ago

The resources listed here are geared for prototyping that allows rapid iteration of designs and ideas. From electronics prototyping (Tempo Automation) to mechanical (Fictiv). Having been to Shenzhen for manufacturing, it is absolutely great once you get to large volume - you can't beat the robust ecosystem anywhere. For initial runs of designs (quantity 1-10 of something), TIME is absolutely key: dealing with Shenzhen takes extensive communication and long lead times for each production run that a startup or even a big company can't afford.

ahhrrr 12y ago
Absolutely. At Other Machine Co., (https://othermachine.co/ https://othermachine.co/) our volumes just aren't big enough to go to Shenzhen yet. Not to mention the fact that the upfront costs require significant upfront capital investments. That's why we make a product that lets companies (including our own) prototype PCBs and other parts themselves.
- bravo22 12y ago
  You can't mill any serious PCBs. Not for prototype and certainly not for production. What about vias, or soldermasks?! That machine is great for CNCing plastics and metals however.
  - joshvm 12y ago
    Why not? I've used milled PCBs for commercial prototypes as they're an order of magnitude cheaper than a fab given the turnaround time. You can get down to 0.5mm pitch easily. You don't get soldermasks and vias are normally riveted (good enough). For most people, two layers is enough and if you can design the board well you shouldn't need much routing on the second layer.
    - sbierwagen 12y ago
      What commercial products are you using that you don't do multilayer boards? Nothing that involves RF, or fast buses.

fown9 12y ago

I hope this is the start of US bringing manufacturing back to the States. There needs to be a hardware alley in silicon valley, much like the hardware alley in Shenzhen. For one thing, China is still a communist government that is authoritarian and ignores environmental pollutions (to the world). It also ignores human rights, supports dictators in Africa, and props up totalitarian government in Russia. These are good reasons to not do business with China.

jseliger 12y ago
This has arguably already started happening: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/10/made-in-america-again/379343 http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/10/made-in-... or http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2012/12/the-insourcing-boom/309166/ http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2012/12/the-inso...

anandhv 12y ago

Anyone have experience visiting Shenzen? Advice on making the most from a first visit is being discussed here. Would be awesome if anyone could share their tips. http://forum.upverter.com/t/first-trip-to-shenzen-what-should-i-not-miss/289 http://forum.upverter.com/t/first-trip-to-shenzen-what-shoul...

dmritard96 12y ago

Skipped on YC for this reason ;)