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I come from a poor family, and I'm no rich guy now. My family has always owned used cars. My current used car has saved me a ton of money, and as long as I main

I come from a poor family, and I'm no rich guy now. My family has always owned used cars. My current used car has saved me a ton of money, and as long as I maintain it, it will last a very long time. And by no means am I some great mechanic. I know how to change the filters, I get jiffy lube to change my oil, and thats it. So buying a used car can make a lot of sense. Of course, I'm not buying a used Maserati. That's just stupid.

freehunter 12y ago
He didn't write about buying used card. In fact, he even made a point about buying not-that-old Civics, because there is no risk to owning a used Civic. But changing your oil and filters won't help you when the CV joint snaps going down the road (and it's going to happen someday), or when the alternator seizes up, or when the starter won't turn over, or when the timing belt snaps without warning. All of those things can happen on an older vehicle without a moment's notice, and besides the timing belt, none of them are commonly found on a scheduled maintenance calendar. Changing your oil only helps until that odometer rolls over 250k (for a reliable car) or even 90k (for a cheap econobox). The point isn't "don't buy a used car", it's "don't listen to articles saying you should buy a car with a million miles for $1000".
- normloman 12y ago
  I read the article. He mentioned the civic thing once, and didn't explicitly recommend buying used civics. It wasn't mentioned in the title either. So I wanted to comment here, just in case anyone got the wrong idea that used cars are expensive.
- jacquesm 12y ago
  CV joints 'snap' when they have been left without lube or have been driven way past their lifespan (normally the life of the vehicle but for smaller cars they are fragile enough that it is not rare to see them go). One major reason for CV joint problems is the CV joint boot tearing allowing road grime in and grease out of the joint (they warm up enough that the lube becomes fluid and of course there is all the swirling which will happily empty a fully greased up CV joint in a few hundred kilometers). So you inspect those periodically and replace them when they have a large enough number of miles on them. Maintenance is everything with things that you use every day and that you depend on. It's like technical debt in software: you can ignore it for a bit but then you end up paying double or worse. A CV joint is a wear part itself too, so if it has done its duty you replace it. (Not all that hard, but definitely not 'can barely replace a tire' territory.)
  - freehunter 12y ago
    I looked at the manual on my Fiat and my Silverado, neither of them recommend checking the CV boot for damage as part of routine maintenance. And I say that with 90% certainty that the CV joint on my Silverado (357,000 miles) is about to fail with the boot still intact. I can't come up with any other reason why the passenger side wheel has an inch or so of play side to side when it's jacked up, or why it clunks when I turn left. From the outside, the boot is in perfect shape. (for those commenting on the CV joint thing, this is what I was told by two licensed mechanics after they had inspected it. Thank you for prompting me to get another opinion though). Everything in your car, you can say "if it has done its duty, you replace it". Sometimes that includes the entire car. That Silverado is still on it's original engine. Has that done it's duty? How would I know when I should replace the engine? The frame also has 357k miles on it. I know from inspecting it that it's rotted in certain spots. Has it done its duty? You and I know how to inspect various parts of the car to see how much wear they have. Not everyone can. A CV joint might clunk or grind before it fails. A timing belt won't give you that luxury.
    - MertsA 12y ago
      A CV joint ideally does not transmit any force other than torque on the axle, if there is a lot of play in the wheel from side to side you really need to replace that ball joint or control arm or whatever suspension component is broken. Your car is currently dangerous to drive, if that joint fails completely at speed you will lose all control over the orientation of that wheel and there's a good chance it will want to immediately turn sideways. If the side to side play is at the 3 and 9 o'clock position then your tie rod end has failed, if it's at the 12 and 6 o'clock position then it's probably a ball joint. But back to the topic at hand, every repair manual I have seen has listed inspecting CV joint boots for tears every so often.
      - freehunter 12y ago
        It's interesting that you say that, I've actually had it at two mechanics to get their opinion. I bought it about 400 miles from where I live, so I had to drive it back. I wanted to make sure it was safe to make the drive. Both of them said "it's the CV joint, but as long as it's not in 4WD, you're fine". When I jack it up, I can move the top of the wheel side to side like wiggling a loose tooth. So on that judgment, I drove it 400 miles clunking along. But back to the topic at hand, repair manuals are different from the manual you get included with the car.
- joe_the_user 12y ago
  Sure but you can easily get a late nineties Torus with 150K for $2000. These easily go twice that many miles while there are later makes that fail much more quickly. One reason to buy an older used model is that by that time, their average durability has been established. If you buy a brand-new car, you are buying a car whose long-term prospects have only been simulated. Sure, a new car will have longer expected miles than a used car (and you'll premium pay for that). Your chance of a lemon-experience may be "low-ish" but it may still be higher than the chance of full breakdown with a model that's established its durability.
- sukilot 12y ago
  By far the best way to get a reliable used car is to buy a new car and take care of it for 5 years. Purchase price isn't much over the life of a car, if you keep the car 10+ years. A gently used, inspected and certified Civic costs as much as a new. Efficient markets and transaction costs.
passive 12y ago
I grew up middle class, and statistically I'm upper-middle-class now. The closest I've got to a new car was when I got together with my wife, who had just purchased one. Currently, we operate two cheap vehicles, less than $10k between them. But I work from home, and my wife is part-time, so we don't put a lot of load on them. We also can easily handle one of them breaking down, both financially and from a scheduling perspective. I have the time to change a flat if needed. Used cars make sense for me, but I'm definitely privileged in many of the ways Jack describes in the article.

freehunter 12y ago

He didn't write about buying used card. In fact, he even made a point about buying not-that-old Civics, because there is no risk to owning a used Civic. But changing your oil and filters won't help you when the CV joint snaps going down the road (and it's going to happen someday), or when the alternator seizes up, or when the starter won't turn over, or when the timing belt snaps without warning. All of those things can happen on an older vehicle without a moment's notice, and besides the timing belt, none of them are commonly found on a scheduled maintenance calendar. Changing your oil only helps until that odometer rolls over 250k (for a reliable car) or even 90k (for a cheap econobox). The point isn't "don't buy a used car", it's "don't listen to articles saying you should buy a car with a million miles for $1000".

normloman 12y ago
I read the article. He mentioned the civic thing once, and didn't explicitly recommend buying used civics. It wasn't mentioned in the title either. So I wanted to comment here, just in case anyone got the wrong idea that used cars are expensive.
jacquesm 12y ago
CV joints 'snap' when they have been left without lube or have been driven way past their lifespan (normally the life of the vehicle but for smaller cars they are fragile enough that it is not rare to see them go). One major reason for CV joint problems is the CV joint boot tearing allowing road grime in and grease out of the joint (they warm up enough that the lube becomes fluid and of course there is all the swirling which will happily empty a fully greased up CV joint in a few hundred kilometers). So you inspect those periodically and replace them when they have a large enough number of miles on them. Maintenance is everything with things that you use every day and that you depend on. It's like technical debt in software: you can ignore it for a bit but then you end up paying double or worse. A CV joint is a wear part itself too, so if it has done its duty you replace it. (Not all that hard, but definitely not 'can barely replace a tire' territory.)
- freehunter 12y ago
  I looked at the manual on my Fiat and my Silverado, neither of them recommend checking the CV boot for damage as part of routine maintenance. And I say that with 90% certainty that the CV joint on my Silverado (357,000 miles) is about to fail with the boot still intact. I can't come up with any other reason why the passenger side wheel has an inch or so of play side to side when it's jacked up, or why it clunks when I turn left. From the outside, the boot is in perfect shape. (for those commenting on the CV joint thing, this is what I was told by two licensed mechanics after they had inspected it. Thank you for prompting me to get another opinion though). Everything in your car, you can say "if it has done its duty, you replace it". Sometimes that includes the entire car. That Silverado is still on it's original engine. Has that done it's duty? How would I know when I should replace the engine? The frame also has 357k miles on it. I know from inspecting it that it's rotted in certain spots. Has it done its duty? You and I know how to inspect various parts of the car to see how much wear they have. Not everyone can. A CV joint might clunk or grind before it fails. A timing belt won't give you that luxury.
  - MertsA 12y ago
    A CV joint ideally does not transmit any force other than torque on the axle, if there is a lot of play in the wheel from side to side you really need to replace that ball joint or control arm or whatever suspension component is broken. Your car is currently dangerous to drive, if that joint fails completely at speed you will lose all control over the orientation of that wheel and there's a good chance it will want to immediately turn sideways. If the side to side play is at the 3 and 9 o'clock position then your tie rod end has failed, if it's at the 12 and 6 o'clock position then it's probably a ball joint. But back to the topic at hand, every repair manual I have seen has listed inspecting CV joint boots for tears every so often.
    - freehunter 12y ago
      It's interesting that you say that, I've actually had it at two mechanics to get their opinion. I bought it about 400 miles from where I live, so I had to drive it back. I wanted to make sure it was safe to make the drive. Both of them said "it's the CV joint, but as long as it's not in 4WD, you're fine". When I jack it up, I can move the top of the wheel side to side like wiggling a loose tooth. So on that judgment, I drove it 400 miles clunking along. But back to the topic at hand, repair manuals are different from the manual you get included with the car.
joe_the_user 12y ago
Sure but you can easily get a late nineties Torus with 150K for $2000. These easily go twice that many miles while there are later makes that fail much more quickly. One reason to buy an older used model is that by that time, their average durability has been established. If you buy a brand-new car, you are buying a car whose long-term prospects have only been simulated. Sure, a new car will have longer expected miles than a used car (and you'll premium pay for that). Your chance of a lemon-experience may be "low-ish" but it may still be higher than the chance of full breakdown with a model that's established its durability.
sukilot 12y ago
By far the best way to get a reliable used car is to buy a new car and take care of it for 5 years. Purchase price isn't much over the life of a car, if you keep the car 10+ years. A gently used, inspected and certified Civic costs as much as a new. Efficient markets and transaction costs.

passive 12y ago

I grew up middle class, and statistically I'm upper-middle-class now. The closest I've got to a new car was when I got together with my wife, who had just purchased one. Currently, we operate two cheap vehicles, less than $10k between them. But I work from home, and my wife is part-time, so we don't put a lot of load on them. We also can easily handle one of them breaking down, both financially and from a scheduling perspective. I have the time to change a flat if needed. Used cars make sense for me, but I'm definitely privileged in many of the ways Jack describes in the article.