6 ms·

I disagree with the notion that 5.45x39 out of a roughly 12-inch barrel would be that great against bears. I thought they would at least issue slugs for the sh

by jboggan 12y ago

I disagree with the notion that 5.45x39 out of a roughly 12-inch barrel would be that great against bears. I thought they would at least issue slugs for the shotgun barrel (which is somewhere in between the small 28-gauge and a .410 shotguns in American parlance) but apparently not . . . you need hardened cast projectiles to penetrate on bears, not soft points. Compare the 5.45x39 stats [1] to a round more suited and used for defense against bears [2] 1 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.45%C3%9739mm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.45%C3%9739mm 2 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45-70 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45-70 Seems like a nice versatile platform for small game though.

trhway 12y ago
there are 3 potential targets: 1. bears 2. run-away prisoners and various other "wild" people - illegal (and legal) gold panners, poachers in "taiga" or even marihuana("konoplya") gatherers or similar in Kazahstan "steppe" - in many respects those people are more dangerous than bears 3. small game
- rl3 12y ago
  When picturing the second scenario, I can't help but think it's a scene straight out of a Hollywood screenplay complete with cheesy one-liners. I mean, we're talking about bandits being dispatched by shotgun-wielding Cosmonauts who just returned from space, and they may still even be wearing their space suits. Wow.
  - stbullard 12y ago
    There was a short film about just that premise recently - only the cosmonaut landed on a farm in the US, and is discovered by a father and son. Wish I could remember the name!
    - otibom 12y ago
      Do you mean Baikonur (2011) ?
      - stbullard 12y ago
        Nope - as I recall, it was a short film, around 15 minutes long.
- abcd_f 12y ago
  4. Wolves ... which were the actual issue during the already mentioned Voshod-2 recovery.
teuobk 12y ago
Perhaps more surprising is that they now use a 9mm sidearm for that role, at least according to the article's speculation. Good luck doing anything other than making the bear mad with that.
- grecy 12y ago
  I live in the Yukon, and I can confirm that when confronted with even a medium sized brown bear the last thing the world you'd want to do is shoot it with a 9mm sidearm.
  - Avshalom 12y ago
    While I wouldn't shoot one with a 9mm, just a warning shot is generally enough to get a bear to move on unless you've already deeply pissed it off some how.
    - hvs 12y ago
      Or the bear's cubs are nearby.
    - grecy 12y ago
      Haha, such a common misnomer. When you're dealing with a bear that has never seen people before, it has no idea that loud noises like rifles are dangerous. I've seen a friend fire a .375 right past a brown's head from 50 yards and it didn't even blink. The bear just kept eating berries sitting on his butt. You can lay on your horn in the car, fire bear bangers and smash pots and pans together - they don't care. I've also seen someone unload into one with 5 shots from a .303 - all shots hit home in the heart/lung area (later we found both lungs torn apart, though not the heart) and it kept running full speed for over 100 yards. If we had been closer than 100 yards, it would have had us.
- bofussing 12y ago
  The Sirius Sled Patrol in Northern Greenland use a Glock chambered for the 10mm Auto after experience showed that the 9mm Parabellum was insufficient in polar bear encounters. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sl%C3%A6depatruljen_Sirius#Equipment http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sl%C3%A6depatruljen_Sirius#Equi...
fit2rule 12y ago
I know that second-guessing Russian scientists about the efficacy of their weapons is something Americans just can't resist doing. But .. really? You honestly don't think 5.45x39 would stop a Russian bear? This, based on how many years of living in a bear-infested area, like the Russian scientists who made the decision .. ?
- coolsunglasses 12y ago
  http://www.newsminer.com/news/alaska_news/man-uses-assault-rifle-to-kill-charging-bear-near-anchorage/article_3470e44a-f8b3-11e2-b51b-001a4bcf6878.html http://www.newsminer.com/news/alaska_news/man-uses-assault-r... It's really not the best choice for bear-hunting, but it is possible. More problematic is the barrel length and capacity than the cartridge per se.
  - fit2rule 12y ago
    Its not for hunting. It is for defense.
- elliptic 12y ago
  I've spent most of my life in Alaska. I don't really know anyone who would hunt brown bear with that cartridge; it would possibly suffice for self-defense. Many "smaller" rounds are fine - plenty of locals hunt with 30-06, or even 270 Winchesters, but those rounds are much more heavily loaded. Also, the comment in TFA article about the "tumbling" being key against bears sounds off; the hard part is getting through the protective mass of fur/bone/muscle/fat. That said, bears (and especially wolves) surely represent minimal risk as compared to the elements and more generally being in got-damn space. Funny thing to worry about.
  - fit2rule 12y ago
    Yeah, these are not your average bear hunters. Every little bit of weight counts, so I can see where being on the lighter side of the load would make a difference to the science teams putting together these survival packages. Hunting bears? Use what you like. Trying to survive long enough after 6 months in space? I'm okay with having the lighter load out ..

by jboggan 12y ago

trhway 12y ago

there are 3 potential targets: 1. bears 2. run-away prisoners and various other "wild" people - illegal (and legal) gold panners, poachers in "taiga" or even marihuana("konoplya") gatherers or similar in Kazahstan "steppe" - in many respects those people are more dangerous than bears 3. small game

rl3 12y ago
When picturing the second scenario, I can't help but think it's a scene straight out of a Hollywood screenplay complete with cheesy one-liners. I mean, we're talking about bandits being dispatched by shotgun-wielding Cosmonauts who just returned from space, and they may still even be wearing their space suits. Wow.
- stbullard 12y ago
  There was a short film about just that premise recently - only the cosmonaut landed on a farm in the US, and is discovered by a father and son. Wish I could remember the name!
  - otibom 12y ago
    Do you mean Baikonur (2011) ?
    - stbullard 12y ago
      Nope - as I recall, it was a short film, around 15 minutes long.
abcd_f 12y ago
4. Wolves ... which were the actual issue during the already mentioned Voshod-2 recovery.

teuobk 12y ago

Perhaps more surprising is that they now use a 9mm sidearm for that role, at least according to the article's speculation. Good luck doing anything other than making the bear mad with that.

grecy 12y ago
I live in the Yukon, and I can confirm that when confronted with even a medium sized brown bear the last thing the world you'd want to do is shoot it with a 9mm sidearm.
- Avshalom 12y ago
  While I wouldn't shoot one with a 9mm, just a warning shot is generally enough to get a bear to move on unless you've already deeply pissed it off some how.
  - hvs 12y ago
    Or the bear's cubs are nearby.
  - grecy 12y ago
    Haha, such a common misnomer. When you're dealing with a bear that has never seen people before, it has no idea that loud noises like rifles are dangerous. I've seen a friend fire a .375 right past a brown's head from 50 yards and it didn't even blink. The bear just kept eating berries sitting on his butt. You can lay on your horn in the car, fire bear bangers and smash pots and pans together - they don't care. I've also seen someone unload into one with 5 shots from a .303 - all shots hit home in the heart/lung area (later we found both lungs torn apart, though not the heart) and it kept running full speed for over 100 yards. If we had been closer than 100 yards, it would have had us.
bofussing 12y ago
The Sirius Sled Patrol in Northern Greenland use a Glock chambered for the 10mm Auto after experience showed that the 9mm Parabellum was insufficient in polar bear encounters. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sl%C3%A6depatruljen_Sirius#Equipment http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sl%C3%A6depatruljen_Sirius#Equi...

fit2rule 12y ago

I know that second-guessing Russian scientists about the efficacy of their weapons is something Americans just can't resist doing. But .. really? You honestly don't think 5.45x39 would stop a Russian bear? This, based on how many years of living in a bear-infested area, like the Russian scientists who made the decision .. ?

coolsunglasses 12y ago
http://www.newsminer.com/news/alaska_news/man-uses-assault-rifle-to-kill-charging-bear-near-anchorage/article_3470e44a-f8b3-11e2-b51b-001a4bcf6878.html http://www.newsminer.com/news/alaska_news/man-uses-assault-r... It's really not the best choice for bear-hunting, but it is possible. More problematic is the barrel length and capacity than the cartridge per se.
- fit2rule 12y ago
  Its not for hunting. It is for defense.
elliptic 12y ago
I've spent most of my life in Alaska. I don't really know anyone who would hunt brown bear with that cartridge; it would possibly suffice for self-defense. Many "smaller" rounds are fine - plenty of locals hunt with 30-06, or even 270 Winchesters, but those rounds are much more heavily loaded. Also, the comment in TFA article about the "tumbling" being key against bears sounds off; the hard part is getting through the protective mass of fur/bone/muscle/fat. That said, bears (and especially wolves) surely represent minimal risk as compared to the elements and more generally being in got-damn space. Funny thing to worry about.
- fit2rule 12y ago
  Yeah, these are not your average bear hunters. Every little bit of weight counts, so I can see where being on the lighter side of the load would make a difference to the science teams putting together these survival packages. Hunting bears? Use what you like. Trying to survive long enough after 6 months in space? I'm okay with having the lighter load out ..