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Google opens an Uber competitor. Uber opens a Google (research) competitor. It will be interesting to see which one can commodize the other. I feel that what G

Google opens an Uber competitor. Uber opens a Google (research) competitor. It will be interesting to see which one can commodize the other. I feel that what Google has built (self-driving cars) is harder to replicate, but Google doesn't have the killer instinct that Uber does. If Android is any guide, Google would rather spread their innovation around to partners rather than to use it to build a killer first party product. I imagine Google will license their future self driving-car stack to the existing car manufacturers, Uber, et al.

toomuchtodo 12y ago
> I imagine Google will license their future self driving-car stack to the existing car manufacturers, Uber, et al. Tesla perhaps?
- seanp2k2 12y ago
  I think a self-driving Tesla would be awesome. If anyone could make that work well and sell it, it'd be them.
- threeseed 12y ago
  Pretty much only Tesla. Almost every other car manufacturer either has cars in testing or they will have access to the technology through technology sharing.
serf 12y ago
>>Google opens an Uber competitor. Uber opens a Google (research) competitor. Yep, but I feel like one significantly outclasses the other as a research facility. Will be interesting to see what happens. >>but Google doesn't have the killer instinct that Uber does. Why do you say that about the most visited site in the world? Genuine question.
- krschultz 12y ago
  I'm an Android developer, so that experience colors my perception. But compare Apple and Google in mobile. Everything Apple comes up with goes into making their product better, and they will fight with every tool they have to make the iPhone the better smart phone. Every time Google comes up with a high quality product (Google Now, Inbox, Maps), they do everything they can to ship it on iOS as well as Android. If it wasn't for Apple, Google Now & Maps would be just as good on iOS as on Android. Google doesn't use their cloud service advantages as a weapon to make Android better than iOS. They just want their technology in front of everyone, no matter what they use. I see self driving cars as a similar market. Google wants self driving cars to happen. There are lots of good reasons, but from their perspective it is both a play for even more data, and it increases the amount of time we have to use Google products. I can look at ads even longer if I don't have to drive on my commute. Thus for them doesn't it make sense to license/give away all of that tech to everybody? It doesn't matter who manufacturers the car, so long as it uses Google's car software. Thus, plenty of companies will make self driving cars using Google's software. Thus Uber will have plenty of access to self driving cars. If Google was more focused on killing Uber, they would hoard the self driving software for their 1st party initiative. I imagine if Uber invents self driving tech, no one else is getting it. They are far more interested in the core product of driving people from A to B. It's a bit of 'commodize your compliments' and the two companies respective business model. Google operates a scorched earth campaign of making everything around ad supported internet as cheap or free as possible. Uber and Apple are building businesses around charging money for the product they make directly.
  - bentcorner 12y ago
    > They just want their technology in front of everyone, no matter what they use. I don't know about that - the Windows Phone people are pretty bitter about Google's current stance (no maps, no youtube, no hangouts).
  - ProAm 12y ago
    > Everything Apple comes up with goes into making their product better Apple maps? Your statement used to be true, but not anymore.
  - 12y ago
- WillNotDownvote 12y ago
  Based on the past, in 2 years Google will have shut down their Uber-esque project. Meanwhile, Uber will be spending money researching their core business and will keep pressing on with shipping, consumer-focused products.
  - forgotpasswd3x 12y ago
    How exactly do you feel you can make those predictions about Uber? I mean, other than the ridesharing thing, what other consumer focused products have Uber shipped? You can't really make a good prediction based on one thing, right?
  - puranjay 12y ago
    Another issue some people here have overlooked: Google is a public company. It is responsible to its shareholders who seldom share the founders' long-term vision. 1 year of Google losing cash on an ambitious car project and investors will start grumbling. Another year of that and you will have some 'activist investor' asking for ending the damn thing and going back to making profits. Uber is a private company and a growing one at that. It is expected to lose money. It can go all in without anyone but its private investors questioning it - private investors who want it to do whatever it can for a $100B IPO
    - minthd 12y ago
      Google is public , but they offered unique stocks where control stays with the founders. So if they decide to invest in competing with UBER ,they will.
- puranjay 12y ago
  Google is the most visited site in the world because it offers a product that is significantly better than its competitors. Google is yet to display the aggressive expand-at-all-costs philosophy of Uber. Despite all those privacy concerns, I still believe that many of the guys at Google believe that "Don't be Evil" mantra. It also helps that the guys who've been in charge so far - Page, Brin and Schmidt - are, at heart, nerds who just love technology. Page and Brin are mostly accidental businessmen - they were doing their PhDs, not trying to build the next Microsoft. Kalanick and the guys running Uber seem to be more about business than technology. Nothing wrong with that, of course. This gives them the killer 'profit at all costs' instinct OP describes. Plus, Google does about 10 things (maps, Android, search, Devices, Plus, video, cloud services, productivity software, Chrome, Chrome OS, autonomous cars, etc.). Uber does only one thing. That helps it to focus - a key ingredient of 'killer instinct'
lazaroclapp 12y ago
Say what you wish about the fractured Android ecosystem, but it managed to get >84% of the market-share vs <12% for iOS, despite having arrived later and being (at least in its earlier incarnations, before Android 4.x) a much less polished product. Samsung alone has more users than Apple does. Spreading their innovation around to partners was a killer move from Google the same as selling their software to IBM clones was a killer move for Microsoft. Note: Not arguing that Apple's strategy was unsuccessful in the least, but Google wouldn't have been able to beat Apple at their own game (integrated hardware-software luxury-branded product) at the time of the iPhone/Android release.
- ams6110 12y ago
  Android phones are cheaper than iPhones. That's all it is.
  - untog 12y ago
    So? It doesn't matter how simple it was; it worked.
  - threeseed 12y ago
    And the larger sized screens really made a difference to the market. It's amazing to see Samsung in so much trouble now that Apple has released the iPhone 6/6+. They have lost a staggering amount of profit in only a few months.
    - higherpurpose 12y ago
      Check your dates. Samsung started losing much of its profit before the iPhone 6 came out. It lost 66 percent of its profit year over year in the summer quarter (Apple's weakest quarter, in fact). Samsung may have lost some market share and profits when the iPohne 6 was launched, but it really started bleeding when it stopped any pretense at innovation, and it just kept iterating on the ugly design of Galaxy S3 and the bloatmess of Touchwizz. Galaxy S5 was considered a failure. Because of that Samsung intends to "rebuilt everything from scratch" with Galaxy S6. It's not because of the iPhone 6.
Nogwater 12y ago
I'm not sure that I want to ride in a car built by a company with a killer instinct. ;)
moe 12y ago
I feel that what Google has built (self-driving cars) is harder to replicate, but Google doesn't have the killer instinct that Uber does. You need more than "killer instinct" to match a decade of research in autonomous vehicles. What you call "killer instinct" I would call delusional or "dumb money".
- soup10 12y ago
  Self-driving cars is one of many research projects for google, and it's far from their core competency. If they have money to spend and are very focused on this. I wouldn't count Uber out.
- PeterisP 12y ago
  I probably agree on your viewpoint, but it's not like Google really has an advantage of "a decade of research" over everyone else. They do have a serious advantage, but a the vast majority of benefits of this decade of research is not developed and kept by Google in-house. Key parts of it are either included in non-core components (sensor hardware, commodity electronics) that are used also in other applications (such as computer vision applications in manufacturing industry robotics) and Uber can simply buy that from other companies; or in publicly available academic research and data resources. In terms of actual competitive advantage in self-driving cars, I'd say that Google has the following things - (a) a vast store of high-precision mapping and laser scan data that nobody else has; (b) a 1 (2?) year gap in pure research between what they have and what has been openly published by someone; and (c) a bunch of engineering expertise and experimentation experience that Uber doesn't have but some others do -e.g. many major car manufacturers. An impressive gap, but one that can be overcome in acouple years if you're serious about it.
  - moe 12y ago
    many major car manufacturers Who? All demos that I've seen from Mercedes Benz, BMW, Toyota, Volvo, etc. were generations behind google. The self-parking car seemed to be their most impressive feat so far. Meanwhile Google Car is commuting in live city traffic, without anyone touching the wheel.
refulgentis 12y ago
More like, my ex-cofounder created Facebook, so I rage-opened a terminal and typed in `mkdir facebook_killer && cd facebook_killer && git init`
sschueller 12y ago
"Uber opens a Google (research) competitor" with money it got from Google ($258 million)
tjbarbour 12y ago
Its a race between UBER building/acquiring self-driving capabilities vs. Google spreading to all the markets. Sadly, as much legislative power as Google may have, I think we may be in an age where its easier to create the technology of self-driving cars then to get through the political/regulatory red-tape that UBER has been fighting through for years. That's probably an exaggeration, but given the how many other companies are dabbling in the self-driving space now, it may be less innovative than a few years back. On the other hand, I don't thing political/regulatory barriers are any easier to get through. At least we have two big players trying to solve a big problem, so hopefully we'll benefit in the end.
lettergram 12y ago
Even spreading it around will work in Google's favor in this case. In this case, it seems Google's goal would be gathering transportation (and obtain tracking information). Thus they could undercut Uber prices.
ignoramous 12y ago
Google doesn't spread innovation around to partners [0]... the terms of OHA, and the terms of Play Store are strongly in favour of Google and effects any competitor [1] that forks Android without Google's blessing. The Play Store terms range from absurd to downright ridiculous. [0] http://techcrunch.com/2009/12/22/google-open-when-convenient/ http://techcrunch.com/2009/12/22/google-open-when-convenient... [1] http://marketingland.com/acer-incident-revives-conspiracy-theory-about-google-android-location-and-wi-spy-21724 http://marketingland.com/acer-incident-revives-conspiracy-th...

toomuchtodo 12y ago

> I imagine Google will license their future self driving-car stack to the existing car manufacturers, Uber, et al. Tesla perhaps?

seanp2k2 12y ago
I think a self-driving Tesla would be awesome. If anyone could make that work well and sell it, it'd be them.
threeseed 12y ago
Pretty much only Tesla. Almost every other car manufacturer either has cars in testing or they will have access to the technology through technology sharing.

serf 12y ago

>>Google opens an Uber competitor. Uber opens a Google (research) competitor. Yep, but I feel like one significantly outclasses the other as a research facility. Will be interesting to see what happens. >>but Google doesn't have the killer instinct that Uber does. Why do you say that about the most visited site in the world? Genuine question.

krschultz 12y ago
I'm an Android developer, so that experience colors my perception. But compare Apple and Google in mobile. Everything Apple comes up with goes into making their product better, and they will fight with every tool they have to make the iPhone the better smart phone. Every time Google comes up with a high quality product (Google Now, Inbox, Maps), they do everything they can to ship it on iOS as well as Android. If it wasn't for Apple, Google Now & Maps would be just as good on iOS as on Android. Google doesn't use their cloud service advantages as a weapon to make Android better than iOS. They just want their technology in front of everyone, no matter what they use. I see self driving cars as a similar market. Google wants self driving cars to happen. There are lots of good reasons, but from their perspective it is both a play for even more data, and it increases the amount of time we have to use Google products. I can look at ads even longer if I don't have to drive on my commute. Thus for them doesn't it make sense to license/give away all of that tech to everybody? It doesn't matter who manufacturers the car, so long as it uses Google's car software. Thus, plenty of companies will make self driving cars using Google's software. Thus Uber will have plenty of access to self driving cars. If Google was more focused on killing Uber, they would hoard the self driving software for their 1st party initiative. I imagine if Uber invents self driving tech, no one else is getting it. They are far more interested in the core product of driving people from A to B. It's a bit of 'commodize your compliments' and the two companies respective business model. Google operates a scorched earth campaign of making everything around ad supported internet as cheap or free as possible. Uber and Apple are building businesses around charging money for the product they make directly.
- bentcorner 12y ago
  > They just want their technology in front of everyone, no matter what they use. I don't know about that - the Windows Phone people are pretty bitter about Google's current stance (no maps, no youtube, no hangouts).
- ProAm 12y ago
  > Everything Apple comes up with goes into making their product better Apple maps? Your statement used to be true, but not anymore.
- 12y ago
WillNotDownvote 12y ago
Based on the past, in 2 years Google will have shut down their Uber-esque project. Meanwhile, Uber will be spending money researching their core business and will keep pressing on with shipping, consumer-focused products.
- forgotpasswd3x 12y ago
  How exactly do you feel you can make those predictions about Uber? I mean, other than the ridesharing thing, what other consumer focused products have Uber shipped? You can't really make a good prediction based on one thing, right?
- puranjay 12y ago
  Another issue some people here have overlooked: Google is a public company. It is responsible to its shareholders who seldom share the founders' long-term vision. 1 year of Google losing cash on an ambitious car project and investors will start grumbling. Another year of that and you will have some 'activist investor' asking for ending the damn thing and going back to making profits. Uber is a private company and a growing one at that. It is expected to lose money. It can go all in without anyone but its private investors questioning it - private investors who want it to do whatever it can for a $100B IPO
  - minthd 12y ago
    Google is public , but they offered unique stocks where control stays with the founders. So if they decide to invest in competing with UBER ,they will.
puranjay 12y ago
Google is the most visited site in the world because it offers a product that is significantly better than its competitors. Google is yet to display the aggressive expand-at-all-costs philosophy of Uber. Despite all those privacy concerns, I still believe that many of the guys at Google believe that "Don't be Evil" mantra. It also helps that the guys who've been in charge so far - Page, Brin and Schmidt - are, at heart, nerds who just love technology. Page and Brin are mostly accidental businessmen - they were doing their PhDs, not trying to build the next Microsoft. Kalanick and the guys running Uber seem to be more about business than technology. Nothing wrong with that, of course. This gives them the killer 'profit at all costs' instinct OP describes. Plus, Google does about 10 things (maps, Android, search, Devices, Plus, video, cloud services, productivity software, Chrome, Chrome OS, autonomous cars, etc.). Uber does only one thing. That helps it to focus - a key ingredient of 'killer instinct'

lazaroclapp 12y ago

Say what you wish about the fractured Android ecosystem, but it managed to get >84% of the market-share vs <12% for iOS, despite having arrived later and being (at least in its earlier incarnations, before Android 4.x) a much less polished product. Samsung alone has more users than Apple does. Spreading their innovation around to partners was a killer move from Google the same as selling their software to IBM clones was a killer move for Microsoft. Note: Not arguing that Apple's strategy was unsuccessful in the least, but Google wouldn't have been able to beat Apple at their own game (integrated hardware-software luxury-branded product) at the time of the iPhone/Android release.

ams6110 12y ago
Android phones are cheaper than iPhones. That's all it is.
- untog 12y ago
  So? It doesn't matter how simple it was; it worked.
- threeseed 12y ago
  And the larger sized screens really made a difference to the market. It's amazing to see Samsung in so much trouble now that Apple has released the iPhone 6/6+. They have lost a staggering amount of profit in only a few months.
  - higherpurpose 12y ago
    Check your dates. Samsung started losing much of its profit before the iPhone 6 came out. It lost 66 percent of its profit year over year in the summer quarter (Apple's weakest quarter, in fact). Samsung may have lost some market share and profits when the iPohne 6 was launched, but it really started bleeding when it stopped any pretense at innovation, and it just kept iterating on the ugly design of Galaxy S3 and the bloatmess of Touchwizz. Galaxy S5 was considered a failure. Because of that Samsung intends to "rebuilt everything from scratch" with Galaxy S6. It's not because of the iPhone 6.

Nogwater 12y ago

I'm not sure that I want to ride in a car built by a company with a killer instinct. ;)

moe 12y ago

I feel that what Google has built (self-driving cars) is harder to replicate, but Google doesn't have the killer instinct that Uber does. You need more than "killer instinct" to match a decade of research in autonomous vehicles. What you call "killer instinct" I would call delusional or "dumb money".

soup10 12y ago
Self-driving cars is one of many research projects for google, and it's far from their core competency. If they have money to spend and are very focused on this. I wouldn't count Uber out.
PeterisP 12y ago
I probably agree on your viewpoint, but it's not like Google really has an advantage of "a decade of research" over everyone else. They do have a serious advantage, but a the vast majority of benefits of this decade of research is not developed and kept by Google in-house. Key parts of it are either included in non-core components (sensor hardware, commodity electronics) that are used also in other applications (such as computer vision applications in manufacturing industry robotics) and Uber can simply buy that from other companies; or in publicly available academic research and data resources. In terms of actual competitive advantage in self-driving cars, I'd say that Google has the following things - (a) a vast store of high-precision mapping and laser scan data that nobody else has; (b) a 1 (2?) year gap in pure research between what they have and what has been openly published by someone; and (c) a bunch of engineering expertise and experimentation experience that Uber doesn't have but some others do -e.g. many major car manufacturers. An impressive gap, but one that can be overcome in acouple years if you're serious about it.
- moe 12y ago
  many major car manufacturers Who? All demos that I've seen from Mercedes Benz, BMW, Toyota, Volvo, etc. were generations behind google. The self-parking car seemed to be their most impressive feat so far. Meanwhile Google Car is commuting in live city traffic, without anyone touching the wheel.

refulgentis 12y ago

More like, my ex-cofounder created Facebook, so I rage-opened a terminal and typed in `mkdir facebook_killer && cd facebook_killer && git init`

sschueller 12y ago

"Uber opens a Google (research) competitor" with money it got from Google ($258 million)

tjbarbour 12y ago

Its a race between UBER building/acquiring self-driving capabilities vs. Google spreading to all the markets. Sadly, as much legislative power as Google may have, I think we may be in an age where its easier to create the technology of self-driving cars then to get through the political/regulatory red-tape that UBER has been fighting through for years. That's probably an exaggeration, but given the how many other companies are dabbling in the self-driving space now, it may be less innovative than a few years back. On the other hand, I don't thing political/regulatory barriers are any easier to get through. At least we have two big players trying to solve a big problem, so hopefully we'll benefit in the end.

lettergram 12y ago

Even spreading it around will work in Google's favor in this case. In this case, it seems Google's goal would be gathering transportation (and obtain tracking information). Thus they could undercut Uber prices.

ignoramous 12y ago

Google doesn't spread innovation around to partners [0]... the terms of OHA, and the terms of Play Store are strongly in favour of Google and effects any competitor [1] that forks Android without Google's blessing. The Play Store terms range from absurd to downright ridiculous. [0] http://techcrunch.com/2009/12/22/google-open-when-convenient/ http://techcrunch.com/2009/12/22/google-open-when-convenient... [1] http://marketingland.com/acer-incident-revives-conspiracy-theory-about-google-android-location-and-wi-spy-21724 http://marketingland.com/acer-incident-revives-conspiracy-th...