4 ms·

This is a good example of narrative trumping reality, and we geeks are every bit as susceptible as anyone else. The actual thesis of the article is that Google

This is a good example of narrative trumping reality, and we geeks are every bit as susceptible as anyone else. The actual thesis of the article is that Google is losing interest in archiving efforts. Perhaps true, perhaps partially true, perhaps false, or perhaps unsupported either way. Entirely valid and worth exploring. The second thesis is that the Internet Archive is doing good work. Great! The title, however, is “Never trust a corporation to do a library’s job”. A generalization which no article can prove or disprove. Just dogma. Why must we make these leaps?

bmmayer1 12y ago
Especially apt considering the first libraries were corporations. Non-profit corporations, that is. But people forget that "public library" is a 20th century neologism.
- pbhjpbhj 12y ago
  The first libraries such as? The libraries at Pergamum and Alexandria were, AFAIK, state run affairs basically sponsored by the rulers at the time. Scholars from far-and-wide were invited and given a wage and services so that they could focus on scholastics. The rulers donated the [cost of] books initially but also it seems taxed all ships entering Alexandria; books being retained and copies produced and returned to the original owners. Alexandria was apparently public access, eg http://unllib.unl.edu/LPP/phillips.htm http://unllib.unl.edu/LPP/phillips.htm. It seems pretty close to the modern conception of a public library to me - paid for by the state, directed towards scholarship, open to the public, run for non-fiscal profits. A corporation to me says 'a closed group seeking it's own ends', whilst these state sponsored institutions were probably primarily for the purposes of the rulers I'm not sure equating that to corporations is helpful. As part of the Mouseion it seems the library at Alexandria was much closer to a public work than a private enterprise. I'm not a historian, just someone who's read a few articles on this particular [first?] early library (there's some good AskHistorian threads on it).
tedunangst 12y ago
Correct or not, the articles thesis is more like you can't know which corporations to trust with archiving, therefore you can't (or shouldn't) trust any. It's not possible to determine, a priori, when or if Google will decide that archiving is no longer interesting. Apparently reports of the demise of googles archive are greatly exaggerated, although the fact that they are plausible represents the danger.
- mwsherman 12y ago
  s/corporations/organizations
Spooky23 12y ago
As an old guy in this industry, I may have a perspective here that many others lack in this discussion. When Google acquired the dejanews archive, it was AWESOME! The search capability was exponentially better than what came before it. Google made a big production about this, including also of rhetoric about the importance of preserving the heritage of the Internet. Then one day, mercurial Google released a competitor to Yahoo groups, and seeded it with the Usenet archives. Except that most every aspect of Google groups was worse than what came before. I gave up on the product a decade ago as my job role changed, but at that time thing like date searching were completely and utterly broken. Perhaps it's fixed now. As people progress within Google, priorities will shift. So if you like some free offering without a monetization strategy (ie. Google Reader), you're likely to be disappointed. It's not evil, it is just life. Librarians are a different lot. Preservation of knowledge is their thing. While the headline may be a little dramatic, it is accurate.

bmmayer1 12y ago

Especially apt considering the first libraries were corporations. Non-profit corporations, that is. But people forget that "public library" is a 20th century neologism.

pbhjpbhj 12y ago
The first libraries such as? The libraries at Pergamum and Alexandria were, AFAIK, state run affairs basically sponsored by the rulers at the time. Scholars from far-and-wide were invited and given a wage and services so that they could focus on scholastics. The rulers donated the [cost of] books initially but also it seems taxed all ships entering Alexandria; books being retained and copies produced and returned to the original owners. Alexandria was apparently public access, eg http://unllib.unl.edu/LPP/phillips.htm http://unllib.unl.edu/LPP/phillips.htm. It seems pretty close to the modern conception of a public library to me - paid for by the state, directed towards scholarship, open to the public, run for non-fiscal profits. A corporation to me says 'a closed group seeking it's own ends', whilst these state sponsored institutions were probably primarily for the purposes of the rulers I'm not sure equating that to corporations is helpful. As part of the Mouseion it seems the library at Alexandria was much closer to a public work than a private enterprise. I'm not a historian, just someone who's read a few articles on this particular [first?] early library (there's some good AskHistorian threads on it).

tedunangst 12y ago

Correct or not, the articles thesis is more like you can't know which corporations to trust with archiving, therefore you can't (or shouldn't) trust any. It's not possible to determine, a priori, when or if Google will decide that archiving is no longer interesting. Apparently reports of the demise of googles archive are greatly exaggerated, although the fact that they are plausible represents the danger.

mwsherman 12y ago
s/corporations/organizations

Spooky23 12y ago

As an old guy in this industry, I may have a perspective here that many others lack in this discussion. When Google acquired the dejanews archive, it was AWESOME! The search capability was exponentially better than what came before it. Google made a big production about this, including also of rhetoric about the importance of preserving the heritage of the Internet. Then one day, mercurial Google released a competitor to Yahoo groups, and seeded it with the Usenet archives. Except that most every aspect of Google groups was worse than what came before. I gave up on the product a decade ago as my job role changed, but at that time thing like date searching were completely and utterly broken. Perhaps it's fixed now. As people progress within Google, priorities will shift. So if you like some free offering without a monetization strategy (ie. Google Reader), you're likely to be disappointed. It's not evil, it is just life. Librarians are a different lot. Preservation of knowledge is their thing. While the headline may be a little dramatic, it is accurate.