6 ms·

Introducing Raindrop from Mozilla Labs

84 points by mcxx 17y ago

chaosprophet 17y ago
Has anybody here taken a look at the code and/or managed to compile a (atleast half-working) working build???
smokinn 17y ago
So far it's exactly what I do in gmail. Whenever I sign up to a new mailing list I simply click filter messages from this mailing list when the confirmation arrives, select skip inbox and archive and apply a label of the mailing list name. That way, all the mailing lists have their own label on the left bar with the number of unread messages in each and don't clutter up my inbox. I can do the same with facebook/amazon/whatever but I actually care about reading my facebook emails right away (I only get emails when invited to events or have new messages) and don't get much spam from amazon and whatnot, I always unsubscribe. I fail to see any innovation in what they've done.
babyshake 17y ago
Raindrop seems conspicuously similar to Wave, both in its title and its functionality. It's interesting to see Mozilla getting more independent, post-Chrome.
- weaksauce 17y ago
  I would say that it looks more like an extensible message classification "email" client that aggregates more than just email. The point about the name is interesting.
fr33ba5e 17y ago
introducing mozilla procmail!
jerome_etienne 17y ago
It is clearly in the same vibe as wave... only google has already a version with wave, it is opensource and is much further at the moment. I hope will not start to act like microsoft on innovation. Microsoft is getting used to "try to follow the leader, 10miles behind". Additionnaly their post doesnt even mention the existence of wave... what to think about that ?
- lbrandy 17y ago
  They can't mention google wave in every post to their blog. Try: http://labs.mozilla.com/raindrop/faq/ http://labs.mozilla.com/raindrop/faq/ >How does Raindrop relate to Google Wave? >Google Wave is attempting to create a new form of messaging. We applaud their effort to innovate in the messaging space, and if it gains traction, we will be looking at ways to integrate the messaging protocols from Wave into the open, extensible user interface of the Raindrop platform. In the meantime, Raindrop is focusing on complementing existing messaging sources.
  - jsz0 17y ago
    Sounds like a much more realistic approach than Wave.
there 17y ago
the problem i see with it is that it's all client-side filtering. when you access your email account from another computer, a webmail client, an iphone, whatever, all of those messages are still lumped into your inbox unless you have server-side filtering. i still use procmail on my server to shuffle messages into imap folders before any of the clients see them. mailing lists go to separate folders that i never have to look at on my phone and my inbox stays clean so that new mail notifications on my phone actually mean something important has come through.
- janl 17y ago
  I use procmail & IMAP on my server and raindrop as a IMAP client. Works well. In addition, Raindrop, being written on top of CouchDB, supports n-master-replication. You could just replicate your locally filtered messages to your other devices with or without going through a central server.
  - there 17y ago
    so you need two sets of filters? procmail and raindrop? does raindrop actually move messages between folders or just present a filtered/sorted inbox like sup (http://sup.rubyforge.org/ http://sup.rubyforge.org/)?
    - janl 17y ago
      Raindrop doesn't filter, but it adheres your server filters
- sp332 17y ago
  What's nice is that you don't have to depend on every server implementing the features you want. You just have to impllement the feature once in your client, and suddenly every message from every source "supports" that feature. Mozilla has been doing this with a lot of things, like identity (with Weave) and even web app mashups (with Ubiquity) are being moved into the browser.
- omouse 17y ago
  Client-side filtering is far more powerful. All you need is to copy the filters to your other clients which, in effect, makes your client act as a local server :)
chaosmachine 17y ago
The logo reminds me of Drupal: http://images.google.com/images?q=drupal+logo http://images.google.com/images?q=drupal+logo
- pistoriusp 17y ago
  And the interface (http://www.flickr.com/photos/43332657@N06/3996189794/sizes/o/in/pool-1279790@N22/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/43332657@N06/3996189794/sizes/o...) looks similar to fever (http://feedafever.com/#demo http://feedafever.com/#demo)
  - janl 17y ago
    This is only one of many possible, experimental interfaces. There already are alternatives, and they encourage for a lot more.
sp332 17y ago
There are videos describing the various component of Raindrop on Mozilla Messaging's Vimeo page, http://vimeo.com/mozillamessaging/videos http://vimeo.com/mozillamessaging/videos
fjabre 17y ago
Wait, is this Thunderbird re-envisioned..? Are they seriously making this a windows client/download..?? EDIT: You can have it hosted by a service provider as indicated in one of their videos. Any chance of this being a success..? That's an honest, albeit, loaded question. Given the track record I'm not so sure... It's a great idea that would probably have a better chance as a YC startup..
- janl 17y ago
  TB re-envisioned: I don't know. Will they make downloadable windows version: Yes.
chrischen 17y ago
I don't think they bought the domain raindrop.com yet, yet somehow the screenshot shows the app at raindrop.com.
- burke 17y ago
  The status bar also says "transferring data from 127.0.0.1" -- and there's no "http:// http:// at the front. They just edited the address bar after the page loaded.
  - chrischen 17y ago
    Oh yea I knew that. Sorry, it's hard to pass vocal inflections and speech nuances into text and I forgot. When I said "yet somehow ..." I wasn't seriously inquiring how they did it, just the fact that they did do that. :)
ericb 17y ago
Thunderbird is so painful to use that I have trouble imagining the Thunderbird team producing something great. I'd rather they fixed Thunderbird. I'm tired of: - Getting prompted for every single message whether I want to send in html or plain text format. - Search that takes forever. - Junk in my inbox, messages I wanted in junk. - A UI that finds any excuse to pop a modal dialog in my way. Can anyone recommend another FOSS mail client that it is both good, and cross platform?
- jimbokun 17y ago
  gmail?
- tcc619 17y ago
  have you looked at thunderbird 3.0b4/ the new search works great
- access_denied 17y ago
  GNUS
- aerique 17y ago
  Your Thunderbird experience is almost completely opposite of mine. Gnus is my main e-mail client but there are a couple of Windows machines I run Thunderbird on. All of your points can be solved by going through the configuration options. Maybe that shouldn't be necessary, but not everyone's the same.
  - RyanMcGreal 17y ago
    Likewise. There hasn't been a lot of innovation in the Thunderbird client, but it consistently and mostly stays out of the way. Search is pretty fast and messages go where they're supposed to go. In ~five years of using it across three machines, I've only had two instances in which a folder got corrupted, and in both cases I was able to repair it and recover the messages. Also, when I migrated from Windows to Linux, transitioning my email profile was utterly seamless.
- l0stman 17y ago
pvg 17y ago
There's a common but often-ignored meta-lesson here - begin by describing what the thing actually does, concretely. "An exploration in messaging innovation being led by the team responsible for Thunderbird, to explore new ways to use Open Web technologies to create useful, compelling messaging experiences" has near-zero information content and happily eats up the invaluable initial attention and visual spaces. One has to scale up a substantial wall of text before reaching anything specific but not before being invited on a detour into the 'Guiding Principles'. I didn't go down that path but presumably the principles include 'Be vague'. It may sound like mere grouchy nit-picking but I've found that this type of failure at basic communication in a project's description is often indicative of its future lack of success. The pages of the Chandler project used to be a wonderfully instructive example but even they seem to have cleaned up their act on their current website. A very incomplete list of words and expressions to avoid before clearly stating what a product does - revolutionary innovation vision open passionate watch a video/screencast Any others?
- hussong 17y ago
  Couldn't agree more. I'm looking at a number of payment processors and merchant services, and some make it extremely hard to figure out what they actually do--it's all buried in useless marketese.
- dstorrs 17y ago
  Hear, hear! I read the first few sentences, saw "messaging"--strike one--saw a bunch of incoherent babble--strike two--then started skimming. Halfway down the page, I still had no idea what it actually DID, so I closed the page. Could someone who was more interested than I was sum this up in a sentence? What does it actually do?
- Adrenalist 17y ago
  I agree with your point. I had to do some digging to get more concrete information. When a friend’s link from YouTube or flickr arrives, your messaging client should be able to show the video or photos near or as part of the message, rather than rudely kicking you over to a separate browser tab. Notifications from computers and mailing lists should be organized for you, not clutter your Inbox or require tedious manual filter setup. It should be easy to smoothly integrate new web services into your conversation viewer entirely using open web technologies. http://labs.mozilla.com/raindrop/2009/10/22/introducing-raindrop/#post-1 http://labs.mozilla.com/raindrop/2009/10/22/introducing-rain...
ajju 17y ago
Scott Macgregor who used to head up the Thunderbird team seems to have built another email client (proprietary). http://www.postbox-inc.com/ http://www.postbox-inc.com/
c00p3r 17y ago
Mozilla Wave? Who is next? Apple?
BjornW 17y ago
The thing I found most interesting, is the use of couchdb and python for Raindrop instead of XUL. My hypothesis: Due to CouchDB being used by both Canonical (UbuntuOne) and now Mozilla in new interesting 'products I'm more and less convinced that CouchDB will be become a the choice for data storage. It seems like a good replacement (although comparing the two isn't really fair) for sqlite. Why? Because it supposedly (I haven't tested this myself yet) makes it very easy to sync between different couchdb instances (making it easier to have on- offline applications) and because you can 'run' a complete application from it using only html and javascript. I've been reading Chris Anderson's (http://jchrisa.net/drl/_design/sofa/_list/index/recent-posts?descending=true&limit=5 http://jchrisa.net/drl/_design/sofa/_list/index/recent-posts...) about how couchdb would transform both desktop and webapplications and nowadays I tend to agree more and more. Curious as what other people think of this..

84 points by mcxx 17y ago

Has anybody here taken a look at the code and/or managed to compile a (atleast half-working) working build???

So far it's exactly what I do in gmail. Whenever I sign up to a new mailing list I simply click filter messages from this mailing list when the confirmation arrives, select skip inbox and archive and apply a label of the mailing list name. That way, all the mailing lists have their own label on the left bar with the number of unread messages in each and don't clutter up my inbox. I can do the same with facebook/amazon/whatever but I actually care about reading my facebook emails right away (I only get emails when invited to events or have new messages) and don't get much spam from amazon and whatnot, I always unsubscribe. I fail to see any innovation in what they've done.

babyshake 17y ago

Raindrop seems conspicuously similar to Wave, both in its title and its functionality. It's interesting to see Mozilla getting more independent, post-Chrome.

weaksauce 17y ago
I would say that it looks more like an extensible message classification "email" client that aggregates more than just email. The point about the name is interesting.

fr33ba5e 17y ago

introducing mozilla procmail!

jerome_etienne 17y ago

It is clearly in the same vibe as wave... only google has already a version with wave, it is opensource and is much further at the moment. I hope will not start to act like microsoft on innovation. Microsoft is getting used to "try to follow the leader, 10miles behind". Additionnaly their post doesnt even mention the existence of wave... what to think about that ?

lbrandy 17y ago
They can't mention google wave in every post to their blog. Try: http://labs.mozilla.com/raindrop/faq/ http://labs.mozilla.com/raindrop/faq/ >How does Raindrop relate to Google Wave? >Google Wave is attempting to create a new form of messaging. We applaud their effort to innovate in the messaging space, and if it gains traction, we will be looking at ways to integrate the messaging protocols from Wave into the open, extensible user interface of the Raindrop platform. In the meantime, Raindrop is focusing on complementing existing messaging sources.
- jsz0 17y ago
  Sounds like a much more realistic approach than Wave.

there 17y ago

the problem i see with it is that it's all client-side filtering. when you access your email account from another computer, a webmail client, an iphone, whatever, all of those messages are still lumped into your inbox unless you have server-side filtering. i still use procmail on my server to shuffle messages into imap folders before any of the clients see them. mailing lists go to separate folders that i never have to look at on my phone and my inbox stays clean so that new mail notifications on my phone actually mean something important has come through.

janl 17y ago
I use procmail & IMAP on my server and raindrop as a IMAP client. Works well. In addition, Raindrop, being written on top of CouchDB, supports n-master-replication. You could just replicate your locally filtered messages to your other devices with or without going through a central server.
- there 17y ago
  so you need two sets of filters? procmail and raindrop? does raindrop actually move messages between folders or just present a filtered/sorted inbox like sup (http://sup.rubyforge.org/ http://sup.rubyforge.org/)?
  - janl 17y ago
    Raindrop doesn't filter, but it adheres your server filters
sp332 17y ago
What's nice is that you don't have to depend on every server implementing the features you want. You just have to impllement the feature once in your client, and suddenly every message from every source "supports" that feature. Mozilla has been doing this with a lot of things, like identity (with Weave) and even web app mashups (with Ubiquity) are being moved into the browser.
omouse 17y ago
Client-side filtering is far more powerful. All you need is to copy the filters to your other clients which, in effect, makes your client act as a local server :)

chaosmachine 17y ago

The logo reminds me of Drupal: http://images.google.com/images?q=drupal+logo http://images.google.com/images?q=drupal+logo

pistoriusp 17y ago
And the interface (http://www.flickr.com/photos/43332657@N06/3996189794/sizes/o/in/pool-1279790@N22/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/43332657@N06/3996189794/sizes/o...) looks similar to fever (http://feedafever.com/#demo http://feedafever.com/#demo)
- janl 17y ago
  This is only one of many possible, experimental interfaces. There already are alternatives, and they encourage for a lot more.

sp332 17y ago

There are videos describing the various component of Raindrop on Mozilla Messaging's Vimeo page, http://vimeo.com/mozillamessaging/videos http://vimeo.com/mozillamessaging/videos

fjabre 17y ago

Wait, is this Thunderbird re-envisioned..? Are they seriously making this a windows client/download..?? EDIT: You can have it hosted by a service provider as indicated in one of their videos. Any chance of this being a success..? That's an honest, albeit, loaded question. Given the track record I'm not so sure... It's a great idea that would probably have a better chance as a YC startup..

janl 17y ago
TB re-envisioned: I don't know. Will they make downloadable windows version: Yes.

chrischen 17y ago

I don't think they bought the domain raindrop.com yet, yet somehow the screenshot shows the app at raindrop.com.

burke 17y ago
The status bar also says "transferring data from 127.0.0.1" -- and there's no "http:// http:// at the front. They just edited the address bar after the page loaded.
- chrischen 17y ago
  Oh yea I knew that. Sorry, it's hard to pass vocal inflections and speech nuances into text and I forgot. When I said "yet somehow ..." I wasn't seriously inquiring how they did it, just the fact that they did do that. :)

ericb 17y ago

Thunderbird is so painful to use that I have trouble imagining the Thunderbird team producing something great. I'd rather they fixed Thunderbird. I'm tired of: - Getting prompted for every single message whether I want to send in html or plain text format. - Search that takes forever. - Junk in my inbox, messages I wanted in junk. - A UI that finds any excuse to pop a modal dialog in my way. Can anyone recommend another FOSS mail client that it is both good, and cross platform?

jimbokun 17y ago
gmail?
tcc619 17y ago
have you looked at thunderbird 3.0b4/ the new search works great
access_denied 17y ago
GNUS
aerique 17y ago
Your Thunderbird experience is almost completely opposite of mine. Gnus is my main e-mail client but there are a couple of Windows machines I run Thunderbird on. All of your points can be solved by going through the configuration options. Maybe that shouldn't be necessary, but not everyone's the same.
- RyanMcGreal 17y ago
  Likewise. There hasn't been a lot of innovation in the Thunderbird client, but it consistently and mostly stays out of the way. Search is pretty fast and messages go where they're supposed to go. In ~five years of using it across three machines, I've only had two instances in which a folder got corrupted, and in both cases I was able to repair it and recover the messages. Also, when I migrated from Windows to Linux, transitioning my email profile was utterly seamless.
l0stman 17y ago

pvg 17y ago

There's a common but often-ignored meta-lesson here - begin by describing what the thing actually does, concretely. "An exploration in messaging innovation being led by the team responsible for Thunderbird, to explore new ways to use Open Web technologies to create useful, compelling messaging experiences" has near-zero information content and happily eats up the invaluable initial attention and visual spaces. One has to scale up a substantial wall of text before reaching anything specific but not before being invited on a detour into the 'Guiding Principles'. I didn't go down that path but presumably the principles include 'Be vague'. It may sound like mere grouchy nit-picking but I've found that this type of failure at basic communication in a project's description is often indicative of its future lack of success. The pages of the Chandler project used to be a wonderfully instructive example but even they seem to have cleaned up their act on their current website. A very incomplete list of words and expressions to avoid before clearly stating what a product does - revolutionary innovation vision open passionate watch a video/screencast Any others?

hussong 17y ago
Couldn't agree more. I'm looking at a number of payment processors and merchant services, and some make it extremely hard to figure out what they actually do--it's all buried in useless marketese.
dstorrs 17y ago
Hear, hear! I read the first few sentences, saw "messaging"--strike one--saw a bunch of incoherent babble--strike two--then started skimming. Halfway down the page, I still had no idea what it actually DID, so I closed the page. Could someone who was more interested than I was sum this up in a sentence? What does it actually do?
Adrenalist 17y ago
I agree with your point. I had to do some digging to get more concrete information. When a friend’s link from YouTube or flickr arrives, your messaging client should be able to show the video or photos near or as part of the message, rather than rudely kicking you over to a separate browser tab. Notifications from computers and mailing lists should be organized for you, not clutter your Inbox or require tedious manual filter setup. It should be easy to smoothly integrate new web services into your conversation viewer entirely using open web technologies. http://labs.mozilla.com/raindrop/2009/10/22/introducing-raindrop/#post-1 http://labs.mozilla.com/raindrop/2009/10/22/introducing-rain...

ajju 17y ago

Scott Macgregor who used to head up the Thunderbird team seems to have built another email client (proprietary). http://www.postbox-inc.com/ http://www.postbox-inc.com/

c00p3r 17y ago

Mozilla Wave? Who is next? Apple?

BjornW 17y ago

The thing I found most interesting, is the use of couchdb and python for Raindrop instead of XUL. My hypothesis: Due to CouchDB being used by both Canonical (UbuntuOne) and now Mozilla in new interesting 'products I'm more and less convinced that CouchDB will be become a the choice for data storage. It seems like a good replacement (although comparing the two isn't really fair) for sqlite. Why? Because it supposedly (I haven't tested this myself yet) makes it very easy to sync between different couchdb instances (making it easier to have on- offline applications) and because you can 'run' a complete application from it using only html and javascript. I've been reading Chris Anderson's (http://jchrisa.net/drl/_design/sofa/_list/index/recent-posts?descending=true&limit=5 http://jchrisa.net/drl/_design/sofa/_list/index/recent-posts...) about how couchdb would transform both desktop and webapplications and nowadays I tend to agree more and more. Curious as what other people think of this..