6 ms·

+1 I went to Sandstorm's home page, and spent the first 5 minutes trying to figure out what it is & what it does. "Sandstorm is an open source platform for per

+1 I went to Sandstorm's home page, and spent the first 5 minutes trying to figure out what it is & what it does. "Sandstorm is an open source platform for personal servers". Ok, fine, but what is it REALLY? What does it do? Why is it better than (hosting / VPS hosting / AWS / Docker / PaaS)? Give me some examples of what I can do with it. Sorry, you lost me with your home page.

roadnottaken 12y ago
I had the same experience. Still don't get it.
- kentonv 12y ago
  Question: Did either of you try the demo? (I know it was kind of broken under all the traffic earlier.) Usually the demo is what makes people "get it". It's been surprisingly difficult to find a sentence or two that describe Sandstorm in a way that is effective on everyone. For any text we use, different sets of people get it or are confused. :/
  - akanet 12y ago
    Sure, but I think almost anything is better here than "Sandstorm is an open source platform for personal servers."
  - themoonbus 12y ago
    People on the internet are easily distracted and have short attention spans. You want them to get interested enough to actually run your demo. I'm not going to take 10 minutes to delve deeper unless you hook me to begin with. Also, you don't need to have text that appeals to everyone (there is no "average" user), but you should be able to write text that appeals to at least one of your groups (individuals, developers, enterprise). The two sentences you have currently are so generic that they don't say anything at all. An open source platform? An open source platform that does what? Target the group with your messaging that you are targeting with your platform. Sure, sandstorm could be used by any of them, but which group is MOST important to your platform?
    - kentonv 12y ago
      I've added a brief subtext based in part on your suggestions. Let me know what you think.
      - themoonbus 12y ago
        Looks good! I would think about replacing your main tagline with that sentence, or something like it. Not to be overly harsh, but your main tagline doesn't say anything. Edit: Actually, I think if you said something like "Sandstorm is an open source app platform for personal servers" that would be a major improvement. The whole "app" part is missing from the main tagline. Then, your sub-tagline goes into more detail about what apps. Edit 2: Actually, I would remove the open source part altogether. It's redundant if you have a github link somewhere on your page, which you do, and I think the developer community you are targeting would assume that it's open source. Or, just keep "open".
        kentonv 12y ago
        Actually, the words "open source" are a recent addition to our header, whereas we've always had the github link. We discovered from feedback that many people who visited our page had no idea that it was open source, since most people don't look at nav bars, and this of course completely changed their perception of the project (for the worse, obviously). When we put "open source" into the header, we saw a marked increase in interest. Thanks for the feedback, though! We'll think about inserting "app" in there.
        themoonbus 12y ago
        Ah, gotcha. Makes sense!
    - rpdillon 12y ago
      10 minutes? The demo allows you to set up a Wordpress blog in literally 10 seconds (it's four clicks and no typing or scrolling -- not even to log in). I'm not sure why that's so onerous, even for folks with short attention spans.
  - bootload 12y ago
    "... Usually the demo is what makes people "get it"...." Kenton, I'd agree with this approach. The killer approach is for newly created applications, ported to sandstorm to take advantage of the isolation, security and scalability. So one area to look at, might be extra tools/paths to port, maintain and expand development. For cough, Microsoft (platform), it was VB, the killer app. For Linux (platform) it was Apache (killer app). So "the path" to get applications on Sandstorm (platform) to create a killer app, might be the answer. ==== background ==== In fact, one way would be to ask what apps people (HN for example) already use and what problems they have. You need a feel for the numbers of applications companies/startups use. Is it technical? Is it business related? Is it cost? Install it (if it's ported) and work a discussion around it. For example the reader who chimed in on creating a page on Wordpress - show the path to do that. Another one I'd suggest as a side-business/demo is a collaborative editor (hello etherpad). [0] I know for a fact google, for example, use some crappy Doc editor (sans the nice editor features) to screen candidates. So there's a demand there. For the technical minded, poking around https://capnproto.org/ https://capnproto.org/ really explains what sandstorm servers can do. [0] https://sandstorm.io/apps/?host=https://demo.sandstorm.io https://sandstorm.io/apps/?host=https://demo.sandstorm.io
  - syllogism 12y ago
    So write more than two sentences? Tell the story. There's this idea around that people don't read text. What if it's just that most text sucks? Web designers end up writing web pages with text that isn't really designed to be read, so people don't read it, and then it get optimized away. The result is often really weird. It's this blank pastel page with some vague promises and a SIGN UP NOW button. Zombo.com all over again. I thought your Cap'n Proto page did a good job of this actually! It tells the story.
    - username223 12y ago
      > What if it's just that most text sucks? Web designers end up writing web pages with text that isn't really designed to be read,... Pretty much. "Web designers" are mainly focused on extracting money from credit card numbers. Humans are an annoying intermediary.
CalRobert 12y ago
It's better because the internet was supposed to be a bunch of computers talking to each other. It was a beautiful vision. Instead, it's been centralized on two levels: FB/Google/Instagram etc. serving content, and AWS/DigitalOcean owning the hardware for those intrepid individuals who want to roll their own solutions. The internet wasn't supposed to be Amazon, Google, and Facebook all talking to each other. It's scary that ISP's don't even want you to host your own (modest) server. It's SUPPOSED to be a bunch of computers networked together! Sandstorm makes it easier to live that vision where you own the hardware, or at LEAST have full control over your cloud. It doesn't necessarily need to be your home computer - a colo'ed odroid (or RPi if your needs are modest) would do the trick too. As more and more of the internet is gobbled up by VPS services I think it's important that the average Jane or Joe can still put together their own website, blog, game server, etc. and not be reliant on a company for it.
- apenguin 12y ago
  Unfortunately, I don't see how this solves the problem. The main problem for me is this part of my ISP's ToS: "Users may not run any type of server on the system." Further, every ISP I've ever had has had some such clause. I'd have to get a business plan to actually be allowed to run a server. So who is this, or any home server software, even for? (Or at least, who in the US)
  - kentonv 12y ago
    Sandstorm is not necessarily about running the server at home (though you can). It's more about being able to choose what is on your server and control how your data is stored and accessed, whether on a home machine or running in a datacenter.
    - ausjke 12y ago
      I think I can use apt-get/rpm/etc to control what's on my server already these days?
      - 12y ago

roadnottaken 12y ago

I had the same experience. Still don't get it.

kentonv 12y ago
Question: Did either of you try the demo? (I know it was kind of broken under all the traffic earlier.) Usually the demo is what makes people "get it". It's been surprisingly difficult to find a sentence or two that describe Sandstorm in a way that is effective on everyone. For any text we use, different sets of people get it or are confused. :/
- akanet 12y ago
  Sure, but I think almost anything is better here than "Sandstorm is an open source platform for personal servers."
- themoonbus 12y ago
  People on the internet are easily distracted and have short attention spans. You want them to get interested enough to actually run your demo. I'm not going to take 10 minutes to delve deeper unless you hook me to begin with. Also, you don't need to have text that appeals to everyone (there is no "average" user), but you should be able to write text that appeals to at least one of your groups (individuals, developers, enterprise). The two sentences you have currently are so generic that they don't say anything at all. An open source platform? An open source platform that does what? Target the group with your messaging that you are targeting with your platform. Sure, sandstorm could be used by any of them, but which group is MOST important to your platform?
  - kentonv 12y ago
    I've added a brief subtext based in part on your suggestions. Let me know what you think.
    - themoonbus 12y ago
      Looks good! I would think about replacing your main tagline with that sentence, or something like it. Not to be overly harsh, but your main tagline doesn't say anything. Edit: Actually, I think if you said something like "Sandstorm is an open source app platform for personal servers" that would be a major improvement. The whole "app" part is missing from the main tagline. Then, your sub-tagline goes into more detail about what apps. Edit 2: Actually, I would remove the open source part altogether. It's redundant if you have a github link somewhere on your page, which you do, and I think the developer community you are targeting would assume that it's open source. Or, just keep "open".
      - kentonv 12y ago
        Actually, the words "open source" are a recent addition to our header, whereas we've always had the github link. We discovered from feedback that many people who visited our page had no idea that it was open source, since most people don't look at nav bars, and this of course completely changed their perception of the project (for the worse, obviously). When we put "open source" into the header, we saw a marked increase in interest. Thanks for the feedback, though! We'll think about inserting "app" in there.
      - themoonbus 12y ago
        Ah, gotcha. Makes sense!
  - rpdillon 12y ago
    10 minutes? The demo allows you to set up a Wordpress blog in literally 10 seconds (it's four clicks and no typing or scrolling -- not even to log in). I'm not sure why that's so onerous, even for folks with short attention spans.
- bootload 12y ago
  "... Usually the demo is what makes people "get it"...." Kenton, I'd agree with this approach. The killer approach is for newly created applications, ported to sandstorm to take advantage of the isolation, security and scalability. So one area to look at, might be extra tools/paths to port, maintain and expand development. For cough, Microsoft (platform), it was VB, the killer app. For Linux (platform) it was Apache (killer app). So "the path" to get applications on Sandstorm (platform) to create a killer app, might be the answer. ==== background ==== In fact, one way would be to ask what apps people (HN for example) already use and what problems they have. You need a feel for the numbers of applications companies/startups use. Is it technical? Is it business related? Is it cost? Install it (if it's ported) and work a discussion around it. For example the reader who chimed in on creating a page on Wordpress - show the path to do that. Another one I'd suggest as a side-business/demo is a collaborative editor (hello etherpad). [0] I know for a fact google, for example, use some crappy Doc editor (sans the nice editor features) to screen candidates. So there's a demand there. For the technical minded, poking around https://capnproto.org/ https://capnproto.org/ really explains what sandstorm servers can do. [0] https://sandstorm.io/apps/?host=https://demo.sandstorm.io https://sandstorm.io/apps/?host=https://demo.sandstorm.io
- syllogism 12y ago
  So write more than two sentences? Tell the story. There's this idea around that people don't read text. What if it's just that most text sucks? Web designers end up writing web pages with text that isn't really designed to be read, so people don't read it, and then it get optimized away. The result is often really weird. It's this blank pastel page with some vague promises and a SIGN UP NOW button. Zombo.com all over again. I thought your Cap'n Proto page did a good job of this actually! It tells the story.
  - username223 12y ago
    > What if it's just that most text sucks? Web designers end up writing web pages with text that isn't really designed to be read,... Pretty much. "Web designers" are mainly focused on extracting money from credit card numbers. Humans are an annoying intermediary.

CalRobert 12y ago

It's better because the internet was supposed to be a bunch of computers talking to each other. It was a beautiful vision. Instead, it's been centralized on two levels: FB/Google/Instagram etc. serving content, and AWS/DigitalOcean owning the hardware for those intrepid individuals who want to roll their own solutions. The internet wasn't supposed to be Amazon, Google, and Facebook all talking to each other. It's scary that ISP's don't even want you to host your own (modest) server. It's SUPPOSED to be a bunch of computers networked together! Sandstorm makes it easier to live that vision where you own the hardware, or at LEAST have full control over your cloud. It doesn't necessarily need to be your home computer - a colo'ed odroid (or RPi if your needs are modest) would do the trick too. As more and more of the internet is gobbled up by VPS services I think it's important that the average Jane or Joe can still put together their own website, blog, game server, etc. and not be reliant on a company for it.

apenguin 12y ago
Unfortunately, I don't see how this solves the problem. The main problem for me is this part of my ISP's ToS: "Users may not run any type of server on the system." Further, every ISP I've ever had has had some such clause. I'd have to get a business plan to actually be allowed to run a server. So who is this, or any home server software, even for? (Or at least, who in the US)
- kentonv 12y ago
  Sandstorm is not necessarily about running the server at home (though you can). It's more about being able to choose what is on your server and control how your data is stored and accessed, whether on a home machine or running in a datacenter.
  - ausjke 12y ago
    I think I can use apt-get/rpm/etc to control what's on my server already these days?
    - 12y ago