10 ms·

Tesla’s P85D Will Get Even Faster Thanks to a Software Update

116 points by martin_ 12y ago

adrianN 12y ago
I wonder how the security on these over-the-air updates is. I'm a little scared of the idea that someone who's not even touching my car might be able to replace the piece of code that connect the brake pedal to the actual brakes.
- nodesocket 12y ago
  I have to imagine their software testing processes are absolutely ridiculous and touch every possible permutation of the code.
  - kylec 12y ago
    I would have said the same thing about Apple, then they released an update that make the iPhone 6 unable to make calls. Mistakes happen, and your car could be bricked by one.
    - sliverstorm 12y ago
      Hell, even if you like to believe mistakes only happen to some people- Musk clearly falls in the group of "has made mistakes". SpaceX is proof his ventures are not immune to error. Which is fine, but I'm unnerved hearing the people who seem to consider Tesla infallible. 'They'll never make a mistake like that, they're Tesla!'
      - benplumley 12y ago
        I'll bite; why do you think SpaceX was a mistake? They've had some pretty impressive achievements, all while actually making profit. Unless you meant individual errors like this month's landing attempt.
        u02sgb 12y ago
        Do you mean "SpaceX was a mistake"? To me it read "SpaceX has made mistakes" (which you'd expect working with nascent technology).
        mattlutze 12y ago
        > SpaceX is proof his ventures are not immune to error. Errors probably means errors here. As in yeah, most recently trying to land a booster on a barge and missing. Mistakes happen. The wrong number in a configuration somewhere and everyone's car suddenly has a vampire that sucks down the battery 50% faster, or causes a misreading of wheel speed for anti-lock braking, or etc.
        ceejayoz 12y ago
        I really don't think you can consider SpaceX's first actual real-world test of a technology to be an error.
      - sp332 12y ago
        They made fewer mistakes than anyone else ever has when landing a reusable rocket from orbit that way. I'd be OK with driving a car made by someone with that track record.
    - mirimir 12y ago
      I'm assuming that there's an option to require approval before installing downloaded updates. Yes?
      - threeseed 12y ago
        So what if there was ? Everybody including myself (technical) would just install it regardless. We place faith in companies having proper testing procedures.
        mirimir 12y ago
        Yes, but I'd install it in the driveway, and not on the freeway ;)
        saiya-jin 12y ago
        ... and would you then test all critical systems, one by one, when having morning rush to work in example? Once you trust you trust, and if you don't, you don't update. Not much space between (for me) ...
        Vraxx 12y ago
        I'm assuming if you didn't have to accept immediately that you could push it off until you have time to do so. In addition just knowing that there is an update is a boon on it's own. If I know that the code has changed on my car and something starts acting funny, I'm a lot more likely to suspect the software and report issues properly than if it stealth changes it (I would assume mechanical wear and tear at that point).
        mirimir 12y ago
        I don't have an updatable car. But I have used Windows. And it's become my practice to hold off for a few days after updates come out, and check for horror stories. And I typically do a manual backup before updating.
        spyder 12y ago
    - drzaiusapelord 12y ago
      I hate the idea that Apple or Google are examples of good embedded coding and their defect ratio is the best humanity can get. I don't understand how people think this way. Embedded development has a very different culture and lower tolerance of faults than general development and ESPECIALLY mobile development which is a nightmarish show of amateur hour. I have no idea how Tesla does this, but in most cases you're deal with deterministic software or real time OS's, massive testing suites, coding guidelines that guarantee positive outcomes, etc. JPL published its guidelines. Do you think Google and Apple are this stringent with their mobile toys? Of course not. They have zero economic interest to do so. They just have to make things good enough that kids and housewives won't complain too much. http://spinroot.com/gerard/pdf/P10.pdf http://spinroot.com/gerard/pdf/P10.pdf or more specific to autos http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MISRA_C http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MISRA_C Mistakes will always happen, but Apple or Google are not good examples of what well written software is.
- NovaS1X 12y ago
  There are mechanical failure modes for these things, as well as multiple electronic ones. I'm not saying your comment is ungrounded, I'm just saying that a process locking up or sending wrong information is not likely, or even possible, to net you 100% loss of use in your brakes. Cars are the most highly regulated consumer product on earth. Brake systems nor Tesla fly under the radar here.
  - serf 12y ago
    Cars are the most highly regulated consumer product on earth. Brake systems nor Tesla fly under the radar here. I felt that way too, til I watched few of the talks from the people that were doing the testing of Toyota electronics after all of the unintended acceleration problems.[1] Did you realize, for example, that while there are coding standards that one should adhere to while doing embedded systems-critical stuff (like MISRA guidelines), there are no requirements for automotive companies to adhere to any such software standardization, and that it's left up to the individual manufacturers to decide upon standards? The US automotive industry is unique in that it doesn't have a rigor requirement for software. Planes and heavy equipment do have such requirements within the states. Toyota didn't even use bug tracking or source management, and used their own software guidelines. That's scary given the complexity is so high that the entire system cannot be fully tested in a feasible way. Atop the software issues, the hardware ECM was made in such a way so as to make the secondary 'cross-checking' processor basically useless. Both CPUs were checking the same I/O, if that was the fault then BOTH would read bad data, and the hardware was made in such a way as to make that impossible to work around. An old Camry isn't anywhere near as complex as a modern electric car, and I personally have more faith in Tesla than I do Toyota, but it makes me want to push US legislation into requiring US auto manufacturers into following the strict software guidelines that are available to them. Fun trivia: MISRA guidelines were originally pushed by the automotive industry in the early 90s/late 80s, and now they are one of the only critical systems groups to not follow them. [1]:http://users.ece.cmu.edu/~koopman/pubs/koopman14_toyota_ua_slides.pdf http://users.ece.cmu.edu/~koopman/pubs/koopman14_toyota_ua_s...
    - kbenson 12y ago
      I imagine Tesla would love this. My guess is that Tesla has much more rigorous software practices, given Musk's software engineering background.
- alexandros 12y ago
  While I have no knowledge of how Tesla does their OTA, my startup makes software for over-the-air updating, so I can make a few general comments on this. It may help if you think of your car as just another server. Any connection between the server and client can be encrypted of course, using well-known tools. Besides that, the car can be made to not accept updates that are not signed by the manufacturer, so your only exposure is to the manufacturer. Of course someone may have physical access to your car and be able to write new software locally, but then they may also be able to do mechanical sabotage, so it's not a new risk. So you basically have to trade off one kind of security (the manufacturer can update my car remotely) with another (security bug announced in the software my car runs, I am now a sitting duck). It definitely takes a shift in perspective, but in the brave new world where cars (and other things) run millions of lines of code, over-the-air updates are a necessity. (but of course I'd say that). I've written a bit more about this conundrum here - https://resin.io/blog/you-cant-secure-what-you-cannot-update/ https://resin.io/blog/you-cant-secure-what-you-cannot-update...
  - diminoten 12y ago
    Exactly. If you can't update the car's software, then you can't patch bugs/vulnerabilities.
- martinkl 12y ago
  I don't know about Tesla specifically, but in general the security of embedded firmware is pretty catastrophic [1]. OTA updates are definitely a two-edged sword: on the one hand, they allow vulnerabilities to be fixed (without taking the car to a service center); on the other, the update process can itself be an attack target (e.g. man in the middle serves firmware image with malware included). [1] https://www.usenix.org/system/files/conference/usenixsecurity14/sec14-paper-costin.pdf https://www.usenix.org/system/files/conference/usenixsecurit...
  - phkahler 12y ago
    Digital Signatures on the updates.
- apaprocki 12y ago
  Anyone doing this in a serious fashion will have something similar to this kind of setup: Device has a per-device key burned in at the factory and the private keys sit in a manufacturer HSM. Updates are signed by the manufacturer and also encrypted with the per-device key for each device. The device itself will have tamper-proof (well, as tamper resistant as they can be) chips and a secure boot-loader that will do all the dirty work. Nothing is ever 100% secure, but you shouldn't believe it is something similar to a piece of software on your computer where it is just "hit this https URL for the executable and run it". Or maybe you should believe that and force manufacturers to come out and state otherwise :)
aunty_helen 12y ago
There's nothing stopping ICE car manufacturers from doing the same thing. ICEs are run by computers with lookup tables for fuel and ignition timings(etc.) which are often less than optimal and could be revised for both performance and reliability after a model has been in use by the general public. This is just Tesla being their usual disruptive self. Patiently waiting for a Tesla I can afford.
- malandrew 12y ago
  I'm guessing self driving cars will be here or on the horizon when Tesla's get into the affordable range.
- guelo 12y ago
  Enthusiasts tweak performance parameters on ICE computers all the time.
- Arcanum-XIII 12y ago
  Traditional vendors are not willing to give the general public those kind of improvements not because they can't, but because they feel it will hurt their bottom line by not being able to sell more new car. Customer are left on their own - and so they resort to patch their car with parts that drop their warranty - sometimes for good reason, sometimes not. For example some vendors are famous for selling the same engine at different price point, throttling the low end - a bit like what's done on some CPU/GPU in the computer world !
  - zone411 12y ago
    Actually, some other manufacturers do provide such free improvements, though they would require a visit to the dealership. McLaren provided performance improvements for the 12C, even after the model got discontinued.
    - saiya-jin 12y ago
      good example, but McLaren is far from your usual car manufacturer. In purchasing price you pay also for these services...
andrewtbham 12y ago
elon recently tweeted a video of people experiencing P85D "Insane Mode" acceleration for the first time https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qFV5i8tBhs&app=desktop https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qFV5i8tBhs&app=desktop
- davidy123 12y ago
  This strikes me as quite a dangerous feature. Cars accelerating slowly is a great safety feature. Maybe they could relabel this feature the "Suge Knight" feature since it will make parking lots and other areas of surging cars a whole new theatre.
  - userbinator 12y ago
    It's around as dangerous as any other performance car with an extremely powerful engine. You can still drive slowly; the difference is in what happens when you floor the pedal.
- tempestn 12y ago
  That video was hilarious, thanks!
- Corrado 12y ago
  I love how it glued that little girl's phone to the seat. That much acceleration is just insane; I guess that's why they call it that, huh?
IvyMike 12y ago
> Imagine getting into your car and having it say “Oh! Hey. I’m faster now than I was yesterday. You’re welcome!” Because that’s what’s happening. Yes, that is awesome. But on the other hand, in the past I've had updates to my TiVo and my PS3 where I turned it on and it said "Oh! Hey. I'm shittier than I was yesterday. Suck it." And someday, that could happen with Teslas, too. Updates are a mixed bag.
- Taek 12y ago
  "This car will never speed in construction zones anymore" "This car is now property of pWnz0r. Pay 20btc to {address} to reclaim your car" "This car will only fill up at TSA approved electric stations" "This car will not turn on for anyone with a recent DUI" "This car will not turn on during the Snow Emergency" Some of these are probably not risks given the current capabilities of Tesla's, but future cars might have enough cameras and sensors to enforce such updates.
  - tedivm 12y ago
    "Due to your inebriated state the car has been placed in chauffeur mode and is driving you home. After you pay pWnz0r."
  - demarq 12y ago
    Future generations will have all sorts of amazing technology and vehicles, but their experiences and freedoms will just never match what we have today... to them we'll be bad-asses who lived danger ever minute of every day on our terms. The way we make movies about the future they'll make movies about our time. And the few of us still remaining we'll make up all sorts of stories to make it sound like everyone alive was an action star. They will be repulsed by what they have become. that or... to them we'll be wreckless and inefficient neanderthals. They'll be just happy to have their governments. Like having this monolithic antivirus installed on society, to keep everyone 'safe'.
    - mattlutze 12y ago
      In such a future, Demolition Man may actually have ended up being known as a scion of things to come, Marco Brambilla heralded in the Smithsonian for his foresight and ingenuity in taking on the project.
sschueller 12y ago
Does something like this require DOT approval? In the case of the Tesla there is no emissions change but are there safety changes that need to be retested?
demarq 12y ago
Insane mode is great but an extra gear or something would would also be nice for even more performance. http://youtu.be/r4CnSS4OG4A http://youtu.be/r4CnSS4OG4A
- tyho 12y ago
  An extra gear would not give more performance, the reason cars with internal combustion engines have gears is because they do not produce their full power at low engine speeds, whereas electric motors do, hence why the Tesla does not have nor would benefit from a gearbox. You can see why a gearbox is a disadvantage in this video here: http://youtu.be/0e-jquwHKtI?t=30s http://youtu.be/0e-jquwHKtI?t=30s During the first 2 gear changes you can see the lambo fall behind during gear changes.
  - semi-extrinsic 12y ago
    s/power/torque/ And saying a Tesla would have no benefit of a gearbox is a bit strong. There are reasons to believe [1] it would increase efficiency at the cost of more complexity. [1] http://www.gizmag.com/new-multi-speed-electric-vehicle-transmission-improves-ev-performance-and-range/11670/ http://www.gizmag.com/new-multi-speed-electric-vehicle-trans...
    - tyho 12y ago
      I was speaking a bit imprecisely. An electric motors power-speed curve is not totally flat, just much more so than normal engines.
  - Animats 12y ago
    Tesla's original cars had a 2-speed gearbox, because they had problems with the motor at high revs and they couldn't get their desired top speed without a gear change. The gearbox was a huge problem, because the shift ratio was so big that the jolt on gear change damaged the gearbox, and gearbox life was maybe a year. So they went to a motor with a larger speed range and better cooling, and a one-speed gearbox. Tesla retrofit most of their early cars with the new powertrain. http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/engineering-update-powertrain-15 http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/engineering-update-powertrai... Some earlier electric cars had multi-speed gearboxes, but that was back when electric cars had brush-type DC motors. Once high-power semiconductors got really good, electric cars went to polyphase AC motors with variable-frequency drive. That technology is now in everything from better R/C drones to electric locomotives. AC motors can be made to synchronize, which allows the Tesla 2-motor car to have all-wheel drive with no front/back differential. One motor per wheel is probably next. The big win for this technology turns out to be Diesel-electric locomotives. All the wheels on all the locomotives can be synched up, eliminating wheel slip. The locomotives can even be distributed through the train. Here's a 3.5 mile long train run as a test by Union Pacific in 2010. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdIzRFOaTCY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdIzRFOaTCY There have been longer trains, but mostly in flat areas. This was from LA to Texas at speeds to 70mph.
shenoyroopesh 12y ago
Wow. This is just insane. I was a bit confused initially as to how a mechanical problem can be solved by a software update, but then someone explained in one of the comments that it's about fuel-injection tables and stuff. Incredible, but just a bit scary too. I really hope they test that software to the hilt - I mean like NASA style, slow but steady kind of stuff. I wouldn't want to go 1 feet near the car if the quality is in the same quality vicinity as 99% other software (and that includes software that we generally consider "good quality"). Anyone knows what their software development process is to get that kind of confidence?
- fuzzix 12y ago
  > Anyone knows what their software development process is to get that kind of confidence? If it's NASA confidence, waterfall every time :) Having worked in that sort of environment (everything about the system has been analysed on paper before a text editor is launched), don't knock it until you've tried it. This wasn't rocket science either, it was export refund batch jobs. In the 21st century.
- secfirstmd 12y ago
  Awaits the first person to claim that open source car software is much better and that that next year will be the year of open source driving software - just as soon as the whole dashboard UI/UX is made a little better and the update process for your engine doesn't require you going to the command line because the drivers for the windscreen wipers are broken for no reason after the last upgrade.
- threeseed 12y ago
  It isn't insane. It's been happening for many years. And the software development process is pretty standard waterfall. And yes they absolutely test that software to the hilt. Generally though the software is architecturally quite basic i.e. they don't do anything too fancy.
- msl 12y ago
  There is a write up about the development of the STS-software[1]. If memory serves, the key is specifying everything extremely rigorously. It seems to me though, that writing such specification (if sensor A detects such-and-such value and sensor B...) would share most of the problems writing actual software does. Another look at how to get "NASA like" confidence is provided by Richard Feynman[2] and Diane Vaughan[3]. [1] http://www.fastcompany.com/28121/they-write-right-stuff http://www.fastcompany.com/28121/they-write-right-stuff [2] http://science.ksc.nasa.gov/shuttle/missions/51-l/docs/rogers-commission/Appendix-F.txt http://science.ksc.nasa.gov/shuttle/missions/51-l/docs/roger... [3] http://www.amazon.com/The-Challenger-Launch-Decision-Technology/dp/0226851761 http://www.amazon.com/The-Challenger-Launch-Decision-Technol...
mattlutze 12y ago
The notable thing here is that the updates are done "magically", as in, in the background over WiFi. Software mappings for engine performance are often modified by hobbyists, performance tuners, etc., it just normally takes plugging in a tool or swapping a control chip.
- Shivetya 12y ago
  The only question I have is. Can I block Tesla from delivering updates.
  - mattlutze 12y ago
    Perhaps, put a tinfoil hat on your car's wifi or cellular radio? (I imagine it must use s cellular data connection for the backups given not everyone will log the car into wifi) But with seriousness, it's a good question. I would be surprised if the purchase agreement for the car doesn't somewhere include a clause that you agree to allow the car to make updates. In 2012 when the pushed the first big update, Wired indicated owners couldn't opt-out [1]. Looking at their legal website [2], I see that under Rights & Choices you can turn off the collection of Telemetric Data, which may disable periodic software and firmware updates. But no, on a casual Googling, I don't see it outlined anywhere how they manage opting out of those updates. [1] http://www.wired.com/2012/09/tesla-over-the-air/ http://www.wired.com/2012/09/tesla-over-the-air/ [2] https://www.teslamotors.com/about/legal https://www.teslamotors.com/about/legal
  - NickM 12y ago
    I don't believe any of the Model S updates have ever been automatically applied. It will automatically tell you "hey, an update is available" but won't install it until you give the go-ahead.
    - giarc 12y ago
      But can you skip that update but install the next? Say update 2.1 is a speed increase and user doesn't want that. Update 2.2 is a safety feature that the user wants, would 2.2 include 2.1?
trvz 12y ago
> Imagine getting into your car and having it say “Oh! Hey. I’m faster now than I was yesterday. You’re welcome!” Because that’s what’s happening. Imagine having such a software-powered car and being unable to get into it because it was stolen: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiegel.de%2Fauto%2Faktuell%2Fadac-entdeckt-it-sicherheitsluecke-bei-bmw-connected-drive-a-1015819.html https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%... Imagine some company without Google's software engineering expertise building a self driving car, allowing hackers to take it over and create mayhem.
- lazyjones 12y ago
  > Imagine having such a software-powered car and being unable to get into it because it was stolen: That's OK because the mobile access provider will know where it is - he always does, wherever you go...
deleted 12y ago
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phkahler 12y ago
As a motor control guy I'd really like to have a look inside Teslas control algorithm. Most people - even experts - leave something on the table. This improvement is no surprise to me.
- easytiger 12y ago
  Until you've completed not inconsiderable testing that might take months you wont push a component to its limits or within 99% of its limits. Same with normal cars. e.g. Diesel components are very heavy and can deliver much more power than the engines they live in have by default.
- drzaiusapelord 12y ago
  I wonder if they typically launch with very conservative defaults and over time can learn more about the system and what tweaks can be done without causing too many issues. In ICE there's this whole "chip tuning" culture that does this as well. With a trivial updating process and all the data each Tesla sends, it seems like "chip tuning" is built into the Tesla culture as well.
  - phkahler 12y ago
    >> I wonder if they typically launch with very conservative defaults and over time can learn more about the system and what tweaks can be done without causing too many issues. Good point. Slamming full torque as fast as possible on a Tesla might physically break things and should only be pushed out as an update after appropriate testing. I'm assuming they were not even getting the highest possible torque out of it though. Electric motors are a fairly interesting problem and most of the work goes into dealing with limiting cases. Most of the literature doesn't even deal with some of the fundamental problems and most people just avoid them by leaving a little performance on the table.

116 points by martin_ 12y ago

I wonder how the security on these over-the-air updates is. I'm a little scared of the idea that someone who's not even touching my car might be able to replace the piece of code that connect the brake pedal to the actual brakes.

nodesocket 12y ago
I have to imagine their software testing processes are absolutely ridiculous and touch every possible permutation of the code.
- kylec 12y ago
  I would have said the same thing about Apple, then they released an update that make the iPhone 6 unable to make calls. Mistakes happen, and your car could be bricked by one.
  - sliverstorm 12y ago
    Hell, even if you like to believe mistakes only happen to some people- Musk clearly falls in the group of "has made mistakes". SpaceX is proof his ventures are not immune to error. Which is fine, but I'm unnerved hearing the people who seem to consider Tesla infallible. 'They'll never make a mistake like that, they're Tesla!'
    - benplumley 12y ago
      I'll bite; why do you think SpaceX was a mistake? They've had some pretty impressive achievements, all while actually making profit. Unless you meant individual errors like this month's landing attempt.
      - u02sgb 12y ago
        Do you mean "SpaceX was a mistake"? To me it read "SpaceX has made mistakes" (which you'd expect working with nascent technology).
      - mattlutze 12y ago
        > SpaceX is proof his ventures are not immune to error. Errors probably means errors here. As in yeah, most recently trying to land a booster on a barge and missing. Mistakes happen. The wrong number in a configuration somewhere and everyone's car suddenly has a vampire that sucks down the battery 50% faster, or causes a misreading of wheel speed for anti-lock braking, or etc.
        ceejayoz 12y ago
        I really don't think you can consider SpaceX's first actual real-world test of a technology to be an error.
    - sp332 12y ago
      They made fewer mistakes than anyone else ever has when landing a reusable rocket from orbit that way. I'd be OK with driving a car made by someone with that track record.
  - mirimir 12y ago
    I'm assuming that there's an option to require approval before installing downloaded updates. Yes?
    - threeseed 12y ago
      So what if there was ? Everybody including myself (technical) would just install it regardless. We place faith in companies having proper testing procedures.
      - mirimir 12y ago
        Yes, but I'd install it in the driveway, and not on the freeway ;)
        saiya-jin 12y ago
        ... and would you then test all critical systems, one by one, when having morning rush to work in example? Once you trust you trust, and if you don't, you don't update. Not much space between (for me) ...
        Vraxx 12y ago
        I'm assuming if you didn't have to accept immediately that you could push it off until you have time to do so. In addition just knowing that there is an update is a boon on it's own. If I know that the code has changed on my car and something starts acting funny, I'm a lot more likely to suspect the software and report issues properly than if it stealth changes it (I would assume mechanical wear and tear at that point).
        mirimir 12y ago
        I don't have an updatable car. But I have used Windows. And it's become my practice to hold off for a few days after updates come out, and check for horror stories. And I typically do a manual backup before updating.
        spyder 12y ago
  - drzaiusapelord 12y ago
    I hate the idea that Apple or Google are examples of good embedded coding and their defect ratio is the best humanity can get. I don't understand how people think this way. Embedded development has a very different culture and lower tolerance of faults than general development and ESPECIALLY mobile development which is a nightmarish show of amateur hour. I have no idea how Tesla does this, but in most cases you're deal with deterministic software or real time OS's, massive testing suites, coding guidelines that guarantee positive outcomes, etc. JPL published its guidelines. Do you think Google and Apple are this stringent with their mobile toys? Of course not. They have zero economic interest to do so. They just have to make things good enough that kids and housewives won't complain too much. http://spinroot.com/gerard/pdf/P10.pdf http://spinroot.com/gerard/pdf/P10.pdf or more specific to autos http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MISRA_C http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MISRA_C Mistakes will always happen, but Apple or Google are not good examples of what well written software is.
NovaS1X 12y ago
There are mechanical failure modes for these things, as well as multiple electronic ones. I'm not saying your comment is ungrounded, I'm just saying that a process locking up or sending wrong information is not likely, or even possible, to net you 100% loss of use in your brakes. Cars are the most highly regulated consumer product on earth. Brake systems nor Tesla fly under the radar here.
- serf 12y ago
  Cars are the most highly regulated consumer product on earth. Brake systems nor Tesla fly under the radar here. I felt that way too, til I watched few of the talks from the people that were doing the testing of Toyota electronics after all of the unintended acceleration problems.[1] Did you realize, for example, that while there are coding standards that one should adhere to while doing embedded systems-critical stuff (like MISRA guidelines), there are no requirements for automotive companies to adhere to any such software standardization, and that it's left up to the individual manufacturers to decide upon standards? The US automotive industry is unique in that it doesn't have a rigor requirement for software. Planes and heavy equipment do have such requirements within the states. Toyota didn't even use bug tracking or source management, and used their own software guidelines. That's scary given the complexity is so high that the entire system cannot be fully tested in a feasible way. Atop the software issues, the hardware ECM was made in such a way so as to make the secondary 'cross-checking' processor basically useless. Both CPUs were checking the same I/O, if that was the fault then BOTH would read bad data, and the hardware was made in such a way as to make that impossible to work around. An old Camry isn't anywhere near as complex as a modern electric car, and I personally have more faith in Tesla than I do Toyota, but it makes me want to push US legislation into requiring US auto manufacturers into following the strict software guidelines that are available to them. Fun trivia: MISRA guidelines were originally pushed by the automotive industry in the early 90s/late 80s, and now they are one of the only critical systems groups to not follow them. [1]:http://users.ece.cmu.edu/~koopman/pubs/koopman14_toyota_ua_slides.pdf http://users.ece.cmu.edu/~koopman/pubs/koopman14_toyota_ua_s...
  - kbenson 12y ago
    I imagine Tesla would love this. My guess is that Tesla has much more rigorous software practices, given Musk's software engineering background.
alexandros 12y ago
While I have no knowledge of how Tesla does their OTA, my startup makes software for over-the-air updating, so I can make a few general comments on this. It may help if you think of your car as just another server. Any connection between the server and client can be encrypted of course, using well-known tools. Besides that, the car can be made to not accept updates that are not signed by the manufacturer, so your only exposure is to the manufacturer. Of course someone may have physical access to your car and be able to write new software locally, but then they may also be able to do mechanical sabotage, so it's not a new risk. So you basically have to trade off one kind of security (the manufacturer can update my car remotely) with another (security bug announced in the software my car runs, I am now a sitting duck). It definitely takes a shift in perspective, but in the brave new world where cars (and other things) run millions of lines of code, over-the-air updates are a necessity. (but of course I'd say that). I've written a bit more about this conundrum here - https://resin.io/blog/you-cant-secure-what-you-cannot-update/ https://resin.io/blog/you-cant-secure-what-you-cannot-update...
- diminoten 12y ago
  Exactly. If you can't update the car's software, then you can't patch bugs/vulnerabilities.
martinkl 12y ago
I don't know about Tesla specifically, but in general the security of embedded firmware is pretty catastrophic [1]. OTA updates are definitely a two-edged sword: on the one hand, they allow vulnerabilities to be fixed (without taking the car to a service center); on the other, the update process can itself be an attack target (e.g. man in the middle serves firmware image with malware included). [1] https://www.usenix.org/system/files/conference/usenixsecurity14/sec14-paper-costin.pdf https://www.usenix.org/system/files/conference/usenixsecurit...
- phkahler 12y ago
  Digital Signatures on the updates.
apaprocki 12y ago
Anyone doing this in a serious fashion will have something similar to this kind of setup: Device has a per-device key burned in at the factory and the private keys sit in a manufacturer HSM. Updates are signed by the manufacturer and also encrypted with the per-device key for each device. The device itself will have tamper-proof (well, as tamper resistant as they can be) chips and a secure boot-loader that will do all the dirty work. Nothing is ever 100% secure, but you shouldn't believe it is something similar to a piece of software on your computer where it is just "hit this https URL for the executable and run it". Or maybe you should believe that and force manufacturers to come out and state otherwise :)

aunty_helen 12y ago

There's nothing stopping ICE car manufacturers from doing the same thing. ICEs are run by computers with lookup tables for fuel and ignition timings(etc.) which are often less than optimal and could be revised for both performance and reliability after a model has been in use by the general public. This is just Tesla being their usual disruptive self. Patiently waiting for a Tesla I can afford.

malandrew 12y ago
I'm guessing self driving cars will be here or on the horizon when Tesla's get into the affordable range.
guelo 12y ago
Enthusiasts tweak performance parameters on ICE computers all the time.
Arcanum-XIII 12y ago
Traditional vendors are not willing to give the general public those kind of improvements not because they can't, but because they feel it will hurt their bottom line by not being able to sell more new car. Customer are left on their own - and so they resort to patch their car with parts that drop their warranty - sometimes for good reason, sometimes not. For example some vendors are famous for selling the same engine at different price point, throttling the low end - a bit like what's done on some CPU/GPU in the computer world !
- zone411 12y ago
  Actually, some other manufacturers do provide such free improvements, though they would require a visit to the dealership. McLaren provided performance improvements for the 12C, even after the model got discontinued.
  - saiya-jin 12y ago
    good example, but McLaren is far from your usual car manufacturer. In purchasing price you pay also for these services...

andrewtbham 12y ago

elon recently tweeted a video of people experiencing P85D "Insane Mode" acceleration for the first time https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qFV5i8tBhs&app=desktop https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qFV5i8tBhs&app=desktop

davidy123 12y ago
This strikes me as quite a dangerous feature. Cars accelerating slowly is a great safety feature. Maybe they could relabel this feature the "Suge Knight" feature since it will make parking lots and other areas of surging cars a whole new theatre.
- userbinator 12y ago
  It's around as dangerous as any other performance car with an extremely powerful engine. You can still drive slowly; the difference is in what happens when you floor the pedal.
tempestn 12y ago
That video was hilarious, thanks!
Corrado 12y ago
I love how it glued that little girl's phone to the seat. That much acceleration is just insane; I guess that's why they call it that, huh?

IvyMike 12y ago

> Imagine getting into your car and having it say “Oh! Hey. I’m faster now than I was yesterday. You’re welcome!” Because that’s what’s happening. Yes, that is awesome. But on the other hand, in the past I've had updates to my TiVo and my PS3 where I turned it on and it said "Oh! Hey. I'm shittier than I was yesterday. Suck it." And someday, that could happen with Teslas, too. Updates are a mixed bag.

Taek 12y ago
"This car will never speed in construction zones anymore" "This car is now property of pWnz0r. Pay 20btc to {address} to reclaim your car" "This car will only fill up at TSA approved electric stations" "This car will not turn on for anyone with a recent DUI" "This car will not turn on during the Snow Emergency" Some of these are probably not risks given the current capabilities of Tesla's, but future cars might have enough cameras and sensors to enforce such updates.
- tedivm 12y ago
  "Due to your inebriated state the car has been placed in chauffeur mode and is driving you home. After you pay pWnz0r."
- demarq 12y ago
  Future generations will have all sorts of amazing technology and vehicles, but their experiences and freedoms will just never match what we have today... to them we'll be bad-asses who lived danger ever minute of every day on our terms. The way we make movies about the future they'll make movies about our time. And the few of us still remaining we'll make up all sorts of stories to make it sound like everyone alive was an action star. They will be repulsed by what they have become. that or... to them we'll be wreckless and inefficient neanderthals. They'll be just happy to have their governments. Like having this monolithic antivirus installed on society, to keep everyone 'safe'.
  - mattlutze 12y ago
    In such a future, Demolition Man may actually have ended up being known as a scion of things to come, Marco Brambilla heralded in the Smithsonian for his foresight and ingenuity in taking on the project.

sschueller 12y ago

Does something like this require DOT approval? In the case of the Tesla there is no emissions change but are there safety changes that need to be retested?

demarq 12y ago

Insane mode is great but an extra gear or something would would also be nice for even more performance. http://youtu.be/r4CnSS4OG4A http://youtu.be/r4CnSS4OG4A

tyho 12y ago
An extra gear would not give more performance, the reason cars with internal combustion engines have gears is because they do not produce their full power at low engine speeds, whereas electric motors do, hence why the Tesla does not have nor would benefit from a gearbox. You can see why a gearbox is a disadvantage in this video here: http://youtu.be/0e-jquwHKtI?t=30s http://youtu.be/0e-jquwHKtI?t=30s During the first 2 gear changes you can see the lambo fall behind during gear changes.
- semi-extrinsic 12y ago
  s/power/torque/ And saying a Tesla would have no benefit of a gearbox is a bit strong. There are reasons to believe [1] it would increase efficiency at the cost of more complexity. [1] http://www.gizmag.com/new-multi-speed-electric-vehicle-transmission-improves-ev-performance-and-range/11670/ http://www.gizmag.com/new-multi-speed-electric-vehicle-trans...
  - tyho 12y ago
    I was speaking a bit imprecisely. An electric motors power-speed curve is not totally flat, just much more so than normal engines.
- Animats 12y ago
  Tesla's original cars had a 2-speed gearbox, because they had problems with the motor at high revs and they couldn't get their desired top speed without a gear change. The gearbox was a huge problem, because the shift ratio was so big that the jolt on gear change damaged the gearbox, and gearbox life was maybe a year. So they went to a motor with a larger speed range and better cooling, and a one-speed gearbox. Tesla retrofit most of their early cars with the new powertrain. http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/engineering-update-powertrain-15 http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/engineering-update-powertrai... Some earlier electric cars had multi-speed gearboxes, but that was back when electric cars had brush-type DC motors. Once high-power semiconductors got really good, electric cars went to polyphase AC motors with variable-frequency drive. That technology is now in everything from better R/C drones to electric locomotives. AC motors can be made to synchronize, which allows the Tesla 2-motor car to have all-wheel drive with no front/back differential. One motor per wheel is probably next. The big win for this technology turns out to be Diesel-electric locomotives. All the wheels on all the locomotives can be synched up, eliminating wheel slip. The locomotives can even be distributed through the train. Here's a 3.5 mile long train run as a test by Union Pacific in 2010. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdIzRFOaTCY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdIzRFOaTCY There have been longer trains, but mostly in flat areas. This was from LA to Texas at speeds to 70mph.

shenoyroopesh 12y ago

Wow. This is just insane. I was a bit confused initially as to how a mechanical problem can be solved by a software update, but then someone explained in one of the comments that it's about fuel-injection tables and stuff. Incredible, but just a bit scary too. I really hope they test that software to the hilt - I mean like NASA style, slow but steady kind of stuff. I wouldn't want to go 1 feet near the car if the quality is in the same quality vicinity as 99% other software (and that includes software that we generally consider "good quality"). Anyone knows what their software development process is to get that kind of confidence?

fuzzix 12y ago
> Anyone knows what their software development process is to get that kind of confidence? If it's NASA confidence, waterfall every time :) Having worked in that sort of environment (everything about the system has been analysed on paper before a text editor is launched), don't knock it until you've tried it. This wasn't rocket science either, it was export refund batch jobs. In the 21st century.
secfirstmd 12y ago
Awaits the first person to claim that open source car software is much better and that that next year will be the year of open source driving software - just as soon as the whole dashboard UI/UX is made a little better and the update process for your engine doesn't require you going to the command line because the drivers for the windscreen wipers are broken for no reason after the last upgrade.
threeseed 12y ago
It isn't insane. It's been happening for many years. And the software development process is pretty standard waterfall. And yes they absolutely test that software to the hilt. Generally though the software is architecturally quite basic i.e. they don't do anything too fancy.
msl 12y ago
There is a write up about the development of the STS-software[1]. If memory serves, the key is specifying everything extremely rigorously. It seems to me though, that writing such specification (if sensor A detects such-and-such value and sensor B...) would share most of the problems writing actual software does. Another look at how to get "NASA like" confidence is provided by Richard Feynman[2] and Diane Vaughan[3]. [1] http://www.fastcompany.com/28121/they-write-right-stuff http://www.fastcompany.com/28121/they-write-right-stuff [2] http://science.ksc.nasa.gov/shuttle/missions/51-l/docs/rogers-commission/Appendix-F.txt http://science.ksc.nasa.gov/shuttle/missions/51-l/docs/roger... [3] http://www.amazon.com/The-Challenger-Launch-Decision-Technology/dp/0226851761 http://www.amazon.com/The-Challenger-Launch-Decision-Technol...

mattlutze 12y ago

The notable thing here is that the updates are done "magically", as in, in the background over WiFi. Software mappings for engine performance are often modified by hobbyists, performance tuners, etc., it just normally takes plugging in a tool or swapping a control chip.

Shivetya 12y ago
The only question I have is. Can I block Tesla from delivering updates.
- mattlutze 12y ago
  Perhaps, put a tinfoil hat on your car's wifi or cellular radio? (I imagine it must use s cellular data connection for the backups given not everyone will log the car into wifi) But with seriousness, it's a good question. I would be surprised if the purchase agreement for the car doesn't somewhere include a clause that you agree to allow the car to make updates. In 2012 when the pushed the first big update, Wired indicated owners couldn't opt-out [1]. Looking at their legal website [2], I see that under Rights & Choices you can turn off the collection of Telemetric Data, which may disable periodic software and firmware updates. But no, on a casual Googling, I don't see it outlined anywhere how they manage opting out of those updates. [1] http://www.wired.com/2012/09/tesla-over-the-air/ http://www.wired.com/2012/09/tesla-over-the-air/ [2] https://www.teslamotors.com/about/legal https://www.teslamotors.com/about/legal
- NickM 12y ago
  I don't believe any of the Model S updates have ever been automatically applied. It will automatically tell you "hey, an update is available" but won't install it until you give the go-ahead.
  - giarc 12y ago
    But can you skip that update but install the next? Say update 2.1 is a speed increase and user doesn't want that. Update 2.2 is a safety feature that the user wants, would 2.2 include 2.1?

trvz 12y ago

> Imagine getting into your car and having it say “Oh! Hey. I’m faster now than I was yesterday. You’re welcome!” Because that’s what’s happening. Imagine having such a software-powered car and being unable to get into it because it was stolen: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiegel.de%2Fauto%2Faktuell%2Fadac-entdeckt-it-sicherheitsluecke-bei-bmw-connected-drive-a-1015819.html https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%... Imagine some company without Google's software engineering expertise building a self driving car, allowing hackers to take it over and create mayhem.

lazyjones 12y ago
> Imagine having such a software-powered car and being unable to get into it because it was stolen: That's OK because the mobile access provider will know where it is - he always does, wherever you go...

deleted 12y ago

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phkahler 12y ago

As a motor control guy I'd really like to have a look inside Teslas control algorithm. Most people - even experts - leave something on the table. This improvement is no surprise to me.

easytiger 12y ago
Until you've completed not inconsiderable testing that might take months you wont push a component to its limits or within 99% of its limits. Same with normal cars. e.g. Diesel components are very heavy and can deliver much more power than the engines they live in have by default.
drzaiusapelord 12y ago
I wonder if they typically launch with very conservative defaults and over time can learn more about the system and what tweaks can be done without causing too many issues. In ICE there's this whole "chip tuning" culture that does this as well. With a trivial updating process and all the data each Tesla sends, it seems like "chip tuning" is built into the Tesla culture as well.
- phkahler 12y ago
  >> I wonder if they typically launch with very conservative defaults and over time can learn more about the system and what tweaks can be done without causing too many issues. Good point. Slamming full torque as fast as possible on a Tesla might physically break things and should only be pushed out as an update after appropriate testing. I'm assuming they were not even getting the highest possible torque out of it though. Electric motors are a fairly interesting problem and most of the work goes into dealing with limiting cases. Most of the literature doesn't even deal with some of the fundamental problems and most people just avoid them by leaving a little performance on the table.