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>> In general Apple's laptops are just well built and feel solid. Some PCs are like that, many aren't due to cost. If I'm going to use a machine every day for 4

>> In general Apple's laptops are just well built and feel solid. Some PCs are like that, many aren't due to cost. If I'm going to use a machine every day for 4 years I want to know it's well built and holds up well. Be glad you're not like me and are stuck with a lemon like the 2011 Macbook Pro. It's a well built (chassis-wise, at least) and solid brick with a well known design defect that Apple refuses to acknowledge exists. I have since left Apple, mainly the unibody Macbook Pros that I love so much have been discontinued in favor of models with soldered on RAM, expensive to replace SSDs. I'm not a fan of how Apple is "closing up" the expandability of their hardware. With the current Macbooks, I wouldn't have been able to upgrade from 4GB to 8GB to 16GB of RAM as the prices came down (and without paying Apple's exorbitant prices for RAM), or upgrade their hard drive to a hybrid drive, and to growing sizes of SSDs as the prices came down. Damn, I miss those unibodies.

MBCook 12y ago
I've had that kind of problem before, and I can also tell you the old PowerBooks in the G4 era could be pretty bad. You were thrilled to upgrade because it made a big difference. I've owned some of the older laptops where bits would start wearing out. My current laptop is a 2010 MBP and I've upgraded both the RAM and the HD, neither one is an option now. The upfront costs are higher than they used to be, and I'm not a fan of that. But that's part of the price of liking Apple hardware. It's the tradeoff they've decided to make and it's not enough to offset the other benefits and drive me away. I've seen enough Apple hardware at work and from friends to generally think it's good quality and not worry too much about buying my next machine from them.
- slantyyz 12y ago
  Well, let me tell you, I have never retired a PC laptop for any other reason that it got slow with age. That includes the cheap ones. My Macbook Pro was almost four years old but still quite fast. I replaced the logic board once under AppleCare, but it died out of warranty just before Christmas. I am not interested in paying 500+ for a new logic board with the same defect that my two previous logic boards had. There are plenty of other people in the same boat as me. Any good will that I had for Apple is now long gone. I'm just hoping I can get something out of the class action that has been filed.
  - MBCook 12y ago
    I don't blame you. I'm not sure what I'd do in that situation. "Wait it out" is a good strategy if there is a design element in the new machines you don't like (I did that with the early glossy screens) but if your current machine is defective and basically can't be fixed I wouldn't blame you for jumping ship at all. It's too bad situations like this end up in court where even if you get made whole it takes years and years and in the mean time you're just stuck with extra costs.
    - slantyyz 12y ago
      The worst part - Apple has a great reputation for customer service, and as today's numbers prove, they could easily afford making me and my fellow owners of problematic 2011 MBPs whole, but they've kept their head in the sand about it. It's unfortunate, because I used to be a promoter of Apple products to people I know. These days, not so much. In fact, I typically don't have much good to say about them at all. This might not have been the case had they been proactive about fixing this problem.
      - MBCook 12y ago
        I know they pull the "you've been through enough' here is a new machine" thing to help customers. But how many more mobos do you have to go through to get to that point. How much time would you waste?
- lultimouomo 12y ago
  > the old PowerBooks in the G4 era could be pretty bad. You were thrilled to upgrade because it made a big difference While I understand and respect your position, it made me smile that since someone was selling you pretty bad things, where bits would start wearing out, you were thrilled to give them more money for other things. Apple can really have the pie and eat it!
  - MBCook 12y ago
    It wasn't that so much as the G4s were so underpowered that you'd jump at an excuse to get a faster one. I never had any real problem with them other than minor cosmetic things from heavy use.
72deluxe 12y ago
I have a 2012 MBP and it's the last of the good ones I feel. A real pity because I don't know what to move to when the time comes! (I too fear the insane RAM prices).
- slantyyz 12y ago
  The good thing is that the 15" models have CPUs that are pretty fast, even today. The 2012's CPUs produce much less heat than the 2011s, so I tend to think that you're good beyond 2017 if you don't do anything that requires you to constantly get CPU speed bumps.
  - 72deluxe 12y ago
    That's the message I want to hear. Thanks! I do compile C++ in parallel frequently under Xcode, but I don't stress it for gaming other than for a few hours once a night. Stays cool most of the time (other than gaming, it goes mental then).

MBCook 12y ago

I've had that kind of problem before, and I can also tell you the old PowerBooks in the G4 era could be pretty bad. You were thrilled to upgrade because it made a big difference. I've owned some of the older laptops where bits would start wearing out. My current laptop is a 2010 MBP and I've upgraded both the RAM and the HD, neither one is an option now. The upfront costs are higher than they used to be, and I'm not a fan of that. But that's part of the price of liking Apple hardware. It's the tradeoff they've decided to make and it's not enough to offset the other benefits and drive me away. I've seen enough Apple hardware at work and from friends to generally think it's good quality and not worry too much about buying my next machine from them.

slantyyz 12y ago
Well, let me tell you, I have never retired a PC laptop for any other reason that it got slow with age. That includes the cheap ones. My Macbook Pro was almost four years old but still quite fast. I replaced the logic board once under AppleCare, but it died out of warranty just before Christmas. I am not interested in paying 500+ for a new logic board with the same defect that my two previous logic boards had. There are plenty of other people in the same boat as me. Any good will that I had for Apple is now long gone. I'm just hoping I can get something out of the class action that has been filed.
- MBCook 12y ago
  I don't blame you. I'm not sure what I'd do in that situation. "Wait it out" is a good strategy if there is a design element in the new machines you don't like (I did that with the early glossy screens) but if your current machine is defective and basically can't be fixed I wouldn't blame you for jumping ship at all. It's too bad situations like this end up in court where even if you get made whole it takes years and years and in the mean time you're just stuck with extra costs.
  - slantyyz 12y ago
    The worst part - Apple has a great reputation for customer service, and as today's numbers prove, they could easily afford making me and my fellow owners of problematic 2011 MBPs whole, but they've kept their head in the sand about it. It's unfortunate, because I used to be a promoter of Apple products to people I know. These days, not so much. In fact, I typically don't have much good to say about them at all. This might not have been the case had they been proactive about fixing this problem.
    - MBCook 12y ago
      I know they pull the "you've been through enough' here is a new machine" thing to help customers. But how many more mobos do you have to go through to get to that point. How much time would you waste?
lultimouomo 12y ago
> the old PowerBooks in the G4 era could be pretty bad. You were thrilled to upgrade because it made a big difference While I understand and respect your position, it made me smile that since someone was selling you pretty bad things, where bits would start wearing out, you were thrilled to give them more money for other things. Apple can really have the pie and eat it!
- MBCook 12y ago
  It wasn't that so much as the G4s were so underpowered that you'd jump at an excuse to get a faster one. I never had any real problem with them other than minor cosmetic things from heavy use.

72deluxe 12y ago

I have a 2012 MBP and it's the last of the good ones I feel. A real pity because I don't know what to move to when the time comes! (I too fear the insane RAM prices).

slantyyz 12y ago
The good thing is that the 15" models have CPUs that are pretty fast, even today. The 2012's CPUs produce much less heat than the 2011s, so I tend to think that you're good beyond 2017 if you don't do anything that requires you to constantly get CPU speed bumps.
- 72deluxe 12y ago
  That's the message I want to hear. Thanks! I do compile C++ in parallel frequently under Xcode, but I don't stress it for gaming other than for a few hours once a night. Stays cool most of the time (other than gaming, it goes mental then).