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More than Windows sucking, the OEM laptop industry has largely fumbled hardware. For a while it looked like Dell and/or Samsung might actually give Apple a run

More than Windows sucking, the OEM laptop industry has largely fumbled hardware. For a while it looked like Dell and/or Samsung might actually give Apple a run for its money in terms of design and quality, but that fell flat on its face. I'm a pretty biased sample, but honestly I know more people running non-OSX on Apple laptops than I know people running non-OSX on non-Apple laptops. Apple's laptops beat the rest of the industry even without the OS.

ChuckMcM 12y ago
I think this is a big part of it. I would rather run Windows on an Macbook Pro than any of the other hardware (although the new Lenovo machines are getting closer). That said it is still the phone/tablet/media streams that dominate their income.
- slantyyz 12y ago
  >> I would rather run Windows on an Macbook Pro than any of the other hardware I honestly don't get why people often say that Macbooks are the best Windows laptops. I have always found the Windows on Mac experience to be sub-par with respect to the key placement, driver behavior, and oversensitive scrolling with Apple mice. I far prefer running Windows on a similarly equipped PC laptop. On the two Macbooks that I have run BootCamp on, I have always found it somewhat painful dealing with the subtle but noticeable differences related to the keyboard and pointing devices.
  - ChuckMcM 12y ago
    That hasn't been my experience. I find the mouse experience equivalent to my Lenovo. The Lenovo maxes out with an HD screen (1920 x 1080) and has about 2/3rds the battery life. I will concede the keyboard point. I pretty much hate all laptop keyboards equally though.
    - slantyyz 12y ago
      I probably should have specified that my issue is with the Magic Mouse with Windows in particular. It just scrolls when I don't want it to, and when it does, it's stupid fast. I don't have that issue with any non-Apple mouse that I have.
  - 72deluxe 12y ago
    I too find the trackpad (which is a joy to use under OSX) to be a clunky ill-performing appliance under Windows. It suddenly becomes a real nuisance to use (ie, no I want to move a window not drag and select). I resort to using an external mouse when I reboot to Windows on my MacBook.
puranjay 12y ago
It's a big branding issue as well. I know Apple makes two laptops: MBAs and MBPs. I don't know what all laptops Dell or Lenovo make. I don't know if they have ultrabooks, and if they do, what are their names. When I buy a new Windows laptop, I sort by specs, not brand. I avoid a few brands (HP, Acer), but as long as I get good enough specs at a good enough price, I'll buy anything. I don't care about specific models/brands in Dell, Samsung or Lenovo because I don't even know if they exist, and if they do, why I should give a crap about them.
- raquo 12y ago
  Very true. Consider that this is the main Laptops* page on samsung.com: http://www.samsung.com/ca/consumer/office/mobile-computing http://www.samsung.com/ca/consumer/office/mobile-computing It's as if they want their laptops to be as generic as possible. * They don't even have a Laptops page. They have an ATIV page which bundles everything from mice to all-in-ones under the brand.
  - puranjay 12y ago
    Dear God, that's a terrible brand name. If I wasn't computer savvy, I'd think 'ATIV' is some new data transfer protocol. Compare that with this: http://www.apple.com/macbook-air/ http://www.apple.com/macbook-air/ and you can see why Apple is pulling ahead of everyone
- hkmurakami 12y ago
  A perfect demonstration of this problem is when you search Amazon for "Asus zenbook". It gives me a hundred results with various SKUs and model years and I have NO idea as a consumer which one is the best fit for me.
  - fru2013 12y ago
    Search Amazon for "macbook". And you will see a similar pattern.
adl 12y ago
Serious question, what makes Apple laptops beat the rest of the industry? No docking station, can't change batteries, no touch screens, no spill resistant keyboards, no matte screen option,etc. You also need those dongles for ethernet and video and can't upgrade RAM or hard drives on the retina models. Sure, the OS (if you need/like OSX, there is little choice), and the trackpad (if you like that those) are good, the rest? meh. I rather have a Thinkpad that can take a lot of abuse.
- _mgr 12y ago
  Probably something to do with forgoing all the things you mentioned so that they could nail the true purpose of a laptop, while also making it aesthetically pleasing. This is a tenet of who Apple is as a company. Whether you agree with the aesthetic position is a personal preference. The figures speak for themselves though... a large proportion of consumers which includes IT professionals want what Apple sells more than they want the things in your Thinkpad. *Edit for spelling.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
- kevinchen 12y ago
  The vast majority of customers don't care about any of those. They're willing to pay a little more for something that is reliable, not too heavy, looks nice, well designed, and sturdy. These are things that bring people utility but won't show up on a specs sheet.
  - adl 12y ago
    I understand your point, i really do. And I can understand why people would choose Macbooks, I understand the appeal, I just want to point out that they are not the only laptops in the market with those characteristics. Maybe most consumers don't care about other features (minimalism can be good and a feature by itself) and a Mac is ideal for them, that is fine, I just disagree that only MBP have those qualities
- 12y ago

ChuckMcM 12y ago

I think this is a big part of it. I would rather run Windows on an Macbook Pro than any of the other hardware (although the new Lenovo machines are getting closer). That said it is still the phone/tablet/media streams that dominate their income.

slantyyz 12y ago
>> I would rather run Windows on an Macbook Pro than any of the other hardware I honestly don't get why people often say that Macbooks are the best Windows laptops. I have always found the Windows on Mac experience to be sub-par with respect to the key placement, driver behavior, and oversensitive scrolling with Apple mice. I far prefer running Windows on a similarly equipped PC laptop. On the two Macbooks that I have run BootCamp on, I have always found it somewhat painful dealing with the subtle but noticeable differences related to the keyboard and pointing devices.
- ChuckMcM 12y ago
  That hasn't been my experience. I find the mouse experience equivalent to my Lenovo. The Lenovo maxes out with an HD screen (1920 x 1080) and has about 2/3rds the battery life. I will concede the keyboard point. I pretty much hate all laptop keyboards equally though.
  - slantyyz 12y ago
    I probably should have specified that my issue is with the Magic Mouse with Windows in particular. It just scrolls when I don't want it to, and when it does, it's stupid fast. I don't have that issue with any non-Apple mouse that I have.
- 72deluxe 12y ago
  I too find the trackpad (which is a joy to use under OSX) to be a clunky ill-performing appliance under Windows. It suddenly becomes a real nuisance to use (ie, no I want to move a window not drag and select). I resort to using an external mouse when I reboot to Windows on my MacBook.

puranjay 12y ago

It's a big branding issue as well. I know Apple makes two laptops: MBAs and MBPs. I don't know what all laptops Dell or Lenovo make. I don't know if they have ultrabooks, and if they do, what are their names. When I buy a new Windows laptop, I sort by specs, not brand. I avoid a few brands (HP, Acer), but as long as I get good enough specs at a good enough price, I'll buy anything. I don't care about specific models/brands in Dell, Samsung or Lenovo because I don't even know if they exist, and if they do, why I should give a crap about them.

raquo 12y ago
Very true. Consider that this is the main Laptops* page on samsung.com: http://www.samsung.com/ca/consumer/office/mobile-computing http://www.samsung.com/ca/consumer/office/mobile-computing It's as if they want their laptops to be as generic as possible. * They don't even have a Laptops page. They have an ATIV page which bundles everything from mice to all-in-ones under the brand.
- puranjay 12y ago
  Dear God, that's a terrible brand name. If I wasn't computer savvy, I'd think 'ATIV' is some new data transfer protocol. Compare that with this: http://www.apple.com/macbook-air/ http://www.apple.com/macbook-air/ and you can see why Apple is pulling ahead of everyone
hkmurakami 12y ago
A perfect demonstration of this problem is when you search Amazon for "Asus zenbook". It gives me a hundred results with various SKUs and model years and I have NO idea as a consumer which one is the best fit for me.
- fru2013 12y ago
  Search Amazon for "macbook". And you will see a similar pattern.

adl 12y ago

Serious question, what makes Apple laptops beat the rest of the industry? No docking station, can't change batteries, no touch screens, no spill resistant keyboards, no matte screen option,etc. You also need those dongles for ethernet and video and can't upgrade RAM or hard drives on the retina models. Sure, the OS (if you need/like OSX, there is little choice), and the trackpad (if you like that those) are good, the rest? meh. I rather have a Thinkpad that can take a lot of abuse.

_mgr 12y ago
Probably something to do with forgoing all the things you mentioned so that they could nail the true purpose of a laptop, while also making it aesthetically pleasing. This is a tenet of who Apple is as a company. Whether you agree with the aesthetic position is a personal preference. The figures speak for themselves though... a large proportion of consumers which includes IT professionals want what Apple sells more than they want the things in your Thinkpad. *Edit for spelling.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
kevinchen 12y ago
The vast majority of customers don't care about any of those. They're willing to pay a little more for something that is reliable, not too heavy, looks nice, well designed, and sturdy. These are things that bring people utility but won't show up on a specs sheet.
- adl 12y ago
  I understand your point, i really do. And I can understand why people would choose Macbooks, I understand the appeal, I just want to point out that they are not the only laptops in the market with those characteristics. Maybe most consumers don't care about other features (minimalism can be good and a feature by itself) and a Mac is ideal for them, that is fine, I just disagree that only MBP have those qualities
12y ago