6 ms·

It will be interesting to see if they can pare down some of Greece's military expenditures, they have over a hundred thousand in their military, nearly ninety t

It will be interesting to see if they can pare down some of Greece's military expenditures, they have over a hundred thousand in their military, nearly ninety thousand soldiers. Granted the politicians can always point to Turkey as a threat but I would be very curious how the new administration handles this. Side effects of closing some of the nearly 500 military and releasing troops is not having jobs for them.

crdoconnor 12y ago
I would assume so. This type of thing: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/greece-spends-bailout-cash-european-military-purchases http://www.zerohedge.com/news/greece-spends-bailout-cash-eur... ...is against everything Syriza stands for.
- sebkomianos 12y ago
  It's highly unlikely: The government is a coalition of SYRIZA and Independent Greeks, a quite right-winged party whose president was given the Ministry of Defense and first words were "I want to apologise to the people of our armed forces for the financial injustice they were done to by the previous government".
  - crdoconnor 12y ago
    Which probably means that wages/benefits will be raised even as expenditures on foreign military hardware are cut. They can still easily do that and cut armed forces expenditures.
    - sebkomianos 12y ago
      "Easily" is a jump, I am not sure the right wing of this coalition will be happy to discuss any military spending. By the way, for what it's worth, "foreign military hardware" has been a very well-known ground for greek officials to receive bribes.
mallamanis 12y ago
I do not expect them to decrease military expenditures. Their coalition partners (the far-right "Independent Greeks" that will be "holding" the ministry of defense) will not allow that easily.
- coldtea 12y ago
  Not to mention Turkey is always a real threat -- like any expanding nation that wants to play a big role in the area, haven't forgotten it's empire status and has several assets that it covets in the Aegean area. Even intelligent people for some reason don't grok history, and always assume "this time is different" and "wars cannot happen anymore because ..." (of course this is exactly what they said in Europe just before the first world war).
bradleyjg 12y ago
I'd think the first order of business would be to get tax compliance up. It wasn't very high to begin with, but since the new year tax revenue has collapsed completely. Ref: http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2015/01/the-greek-fiscal-update.html http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2015/01/the...
- mdemare 12y ago
  Higher tax compliance would help the government pay their bills, but it would in equal measure harm the people's ability to pay their bills. Greece's biggest problems are not high debt payments, they are 25% unemployment, and GDP having dropped 27% from its peak.
- bobcostas55 12y ago
  Literally every government for the last 35 years has promised to get tax compliance up. It's not gonna happen. Beware Greeks Bearing Bonds[0] goes into good detail on the problems with the enforcement bureaucracy and legal systems that make it so difficult to actually apply the law. [0] http://www.vanityfair.com/business/features/2010/10/greeks-bearing-bonds-201010 http://www.vanityfair.com/business/features/2010/10/greeks-b...
VLM 12y ago
That may be the very least likely thing that could happen, given the historical example of the Weimar republic about a century ago. I'm not implying thats likely or good, but asking politicians to voluntarily give up possibly their only lever is rather optimistic.
- mdemare 12y ago
  How would firing soldiers and sailors help with their unemployment rate?
  - fennecfoxen 12y ago
    Well, when you don't have to pay a soldier's salary, then you can pay the salary of someone who makes stuff, or does stuff, or supports people who do stuff -- stuff that the rest of the world economy is willing to pay money for. The whole problem is that Greece doesn't have money to do both, and hiring people to mess around with boats doesn't actually contribute to economic growth and prosperity...
    - mdemare 12y ago
      I agree that soldiers and sailors are not particularly productive in a country that's been at peace for quite some time. Nevertheless, if you've got potential candidates who make stuff that the rest of the world is willing to pay for, maybe you should hire them either way. They'll pay for themselves after all. And if you're going to hire them either way, why fire the sailor? (Unless of course it's the sailor you want to hire for a more productive endeavor...)
      - tjradcliffe 12y ago
        It's not that soldiers and sailors are "not particularly productive", in peace or war. Its that they are what in economics is called a "deadweight loss". They contribute nothing to the productive economy of Greece and the money that pays them could be spent in many more productive ways.
spacecowboy_lon 12y ago
with a hard right colation partner I doubt that Greece spends more per head than teh USA does - Acoring to Charlie Stoss its to keep the Gernerals happy so they don't stage another Coup
grengineer 12y ago
Most soldiers are conscripts. My monthly salary as a conscripted soldier was 8.92 euro and when I became sergeant I got 11.15 euro per month.

crdoconnor 12y ago

I would assume so. This type of thing: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/greece-spends-bailout-cash-european-military-purchases http://www.zerohedge.com/news/greece-spends-bailout-cash-eur... ...is against everything Syriza stands for.

sebkomianos 12y ago
It's highly unlikely: The government is a coalition of SYRIZA and Independent Greeks, a quite right-winged party whose president was given the Ministry of Defense and first words were "I want to apologise to the people of our armed forces for the financial injustice they were done to by the previous government".
- crdoconnor 12y ago
  Which probably means that wages/benefits will be raised even as expenditures on foreign military hardware are cut. They can still easily do that and cut armed forces expenditures.
  - sebkomianos 12y ago
    "Easily" is a jump, I am not sure the right wing of this coalition will be happy to discuss any military spending. By the way, for what it's worth, "foreign military hardware" has been a very well-known ground for greek officials to receive bribes.

mallamanis 12y ago

I do not expect them to decrease military expenditures. Their coalition partners (the far-right "Independent Greeks" that will be "holding" the ministry of defense) will not allow that easily.

coldtea 12y ago
Not to mention Turkey is always a real threat -- like any expanding nation that wants to play a big role in the area, haven't forgotten it's empire status and has several assets that it covets in the Aegean area. Even intelligent people for some reason don't grok history, and always assume "this time is different" and "wars cannot happen anymore because ..." (of course this is exactly what they said in Europe just before the first world war).

bradleyjg 12y ago

I'd think the first order of business would be to get tax compliance up. It wasn't very high to begin with, but since the new year tax revenue has collapsed completely. Ref: http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2015/01/the-greek-fiscal-update.html http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2015/01/the...

mdemare 12y ago
Higher tax compliance would help the government pay their bills, but it would in equal measure harm the people's ability to pay their bills. Greece's biggest problems are not high debt payments, they are 25% unemployment, and GDP having dropped 27% from its peak.
bobcostas55 12y ago
Literally every government for the last 35 years has promised to get tax compliance up. It's not gonna happen. Beware Greeks Bearing Bonds[0] goes into good detail on the problems with the enforcement bureaucracy and legal systems that make it so difficult to actually apply the law. [0] http://www.vanityfair.com/business/features/2010/10/greeks-bearing-bonds-201010 http://www.vanityfair.com/business/features/2010/10/greeks-b...

VLM 12y ago

That may be the very least likely thing that could happen, given the historical example of the Weimar republic about a century ago. I'm not implying thats likely or good, but asking politicians to voluntarily give up possibly their only lever is rather optimistic.

mdemare 12y ago
How would firing soldiers and sailors help with their unemployment rate?
- fennecfoxen 12y ago
  Well, when you don't have to pay a soldier's salary, then you can pay the salary of someone who makes stuff, or does stuff, or supports people who do stuff -- stuff that the rest of the world economy is willing to pay money for. The whole problem is that Greece doesn't have money to do both, and hiring people to mess around with boats doesn't actually contribute to economic growth and prosperity...
  - mdemare 12y ago
    I agree that soldiers and sailors are not particularly productive in a country that's been at peace for quite some time. Nevertheless, if you've got potential candidates who make stuff that the rest of the world is willing to pay for, maybe you should hire them either way. They'll pay for themselves after all. And if you're going to hire them either way, why fire the sailor? (Unless of course it's the sailor you want to hire for a more productive endeavor...)
    - tjradcliffe 12y ago
      It's not that soldiers and sailors are "not particularly productive", in peace or war. Its that they are what in economics is called a "deadweight loss". They contribute nothing to the productive economy of Greece and the money that pays them could be spent in many more productive ways.

spacecowboy_lon 12y ago

with a hard right colation partner I doubt that Greece spends more per head than teh USA does - Acoring to Charlie Stoss its to keep the Gernerals happy so they don't stage another Coup

grengineer 12y ago

Most soldiers are conscripts. My monthly salary as a conscripted soldier was 8.92 euro and when I became sergeant I got 11.15 euro per month.