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Lockitron Announces the $99 Bolt, a Deadbolt You Can Unlock with Your Phone

85 points by paulgerhardt 12y ago

post_break 12y ago
I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole with how they've handled the original lockitron.
- Zhenya 12y ago
  Context; link; something for reference?
  - minikites 12y ago
    It's right there in the article: http://techcrunch.com/2014/01/16/lockitrons-long-march/ http://techcrunch.com/2014/01/16/lockitrons-long-march/
    - Zhenya 12y ago
      OP was references something so horrid that he would physically not come into contact with said device. The article mentions smoothed-over growing pains for a new hardware company.
  - post_break 12y ago
    Never really shipping, constant delays, bad communication, device failures, android lagging behind, etc etc. http://www.reddit.com/r/lockitron http://www.reddit.com/r/lockitron
    - Karunamon 12y ago
      88 readers with a huge delay between posts. Is it really that bad?
      - post_break 12y ago
        Go through and read the posts. Doesn't seem like a single person was happy with their lockitron. Some are still waiting for theirs to ship... It's a dud.
        Karunamon 12y ago
        Same thing was said about Soylent, who just now are getting their house in order. Shipping delays for kickstarted products are not a new or unexepcted thing nowadays.
        george88b 12y ago
        What do you mean? Their product delay was minimal compared to lockitron (~2years!) and they kept everyone well informed regarding the delay(same can not be said for lockitron). Their refined shipping estimates in light of delays were also spot on. I could not be happier with how Soylent handled things, while I would NEVER purchase anything from lockitron again.
        mikeash 12y ago
        I pre-ordered one in August 2013. Note: pre-ordered, not "kickstarted" or anything of the like. I went to their web site, I saw the product described, I saw a predicted ship date a few weeks away, I placed an order, I gave them money. A year and a half later and I still don't have it. Communication has been pretty bad, with many blown dates, infrequent messages, and a dashboard that often showed "ship by" dates that were months in the past. Now they're switching my order to a completely different product that I'm not sure I want. Pre-orders have risk too, but not of even remotely the same magnitude. This behavior might be reasonable for a crowdfunded product, but not for one where the product is supposedly done and shipping imminently.
    - Deebot 12y ago
      With such a good track record with all of that, I would absolutely trust a device these people made to secure my home! /s
  - kylec 12y ago
    I placed a preorder for a Lockitron on Jan 12, 2013, with the general expectation that it would ship in the spring/summer of that year. It did not. I'm still waiting for it.
kylec 12y ago
They're apparently switching pre-orders for the crowdfunded Lockitron to Lockitron Bolt (http://help.lockitron.com/article/95-whats-bolt-and-how-will-my-lockitron-order-change http://help.lockitron.com/article/95-whats-bolt-and-how-will...). This is disappointing because Lockitron Bolt is a different kind of product - instead of sitting on top of the deadbolt, you have to replace it instead. This makes it unsuitable for renters like me. It looks like I'll have to cancel my order.
- prezjordan 12y ago
  Is there a price difference, and will folks who pre-ordered get a refund?
  - kylec 12y ago
    There is a price difference - I preordered at $159 and the regular Lockitron preorder price was $179. The announced pricing for the Lockitron Bolt is $99. No idea how they'll handle the refunds though.
  - paulgerhardt 12y ago
    There is a price difference for people who switch from the previous crowdfunded Lockitron to the Bluetooth only Lock with no Bridge. The difference will be refunded when we start shipping. More details in the Bolt FAQ: http://help.lockitron.com/article/95-whats-bolt-and-how-will-my-lockitron-order-change http://help.lockitron.com/article/95-whats-bolt-and-how-will...
- tashoecraft 12y ago
  If you are willing to swap it out when you leave there shouldn't be a problem just because you rent. They have an option called Key Match mentioned on their website (didn't see it in the article) that allows you to match it to your existing key. They don't say whether you can later change to a different key or not, but you really shouldn't have a problem just because you rent.
  - bcj 12y ago
mattmaroon 12y ago
The original Lockitron is one of the worst products I've ever purchased. BTLE doesn't work with my phone (LG G3). Battery lasts about 3 days. Sleeps all the time and doesn't wake up unless I pull a Jean Claude Van Damme-style roundhouse on the door. It's pretty much 100% useless but hey, at least I spent $1,300 replacing my front door half so I could use that.
- ccamrobertson 12y ago
  Matt, sorry that we screwed up with the crowdfunded Lockitron. We're still working to solve the Bluetooth issues on Android which, until very recently, have been inherent in the stack. The frustration of sleeping Lockitron is why we're moving to a separate WiFi component (Bridge). Let me know if there's anything I can do in the meantime (cameron [at]).
  - mattmaroon 12y ago
    Separate wifi component would be great. There needs to be something plugged in all the time. Will you be replacing the crowdfunded one with a better one? (I don't even mind replacing the deadbolt.) Edit: also I love you guys. You've done a great job keeping people up to date, handling support requests (my emails get answered in hours). I think you'll get there. Just frustrated with the product.
    - ccamrobertson 12y ago
      Yes, that's exactly what Lockitron Bolt + Bridge is meant to do. Replacement deadbolt, separate WiFi to help battery life.
      - mattmaroon 12y ago
        I meant would people who bought the crowdfunded one be able to send it in and get the Bolt+Bridge? I'd be ecstatic to do that.
  - andrey-g 12y ago
adanto6840 12y ago
At least their preorder process didn't require advance payment like so many other recent hardware "campaigns" of late. Still a bummer though... I got tired of the delays and bought a Kevo; doesn't fully satisfy all the things I wanted from Lockitron but hey, I can buy it at the local Home Depot today.
- djrogers 12y ago
  I preordered in Oct 2012, but they made me pay in Oct 2013. Recently cancelled my order, as it never shipped...
flatline 12y ago
I have trouble imagining this sort of mechanical device working reliably. You can hardly compare it to Nest, which really has no moving parts. Our front door has quite a bit of wiggle room, and if the house settles after locking the door you find that you must push the door about 1mm out or the weight of the door rests against the deadbolt and it's pretty much impossible to move by hand. Similarly, most doors and the surrounding frame are subject to seasonal and even daily expansion and contraction based on heat and humidity. It just sounds like a very temperamental device. Does anyone know the reality of how well these work?
- adanto6840 12y ago
  I have a similar product (to the Bolt) called Kevo and it's been quite reliable, 100% even. That said, my door's deadbolt is a "loose" fit if anything and our climate stays very dry year round...
- madaxe_again 12y ago
  Never mind mechanical reliability - the fact that it's an outright replacement concerns me. I wonder what the behaviour would be if I hooked a car battery up to the exterior lock... not a concern with the previous, electrically disconnected from the exterior, model. Oh, and how well it fares when rain gets in it.
  - paulgerhardt 12y ago
    An outright replacement acutually makes for a more robust product as we can control all the variables (how much rotation, how much force, and so on.) The previous version of Lockitron had to work in an unconstrained environment (vastly different characteristics for different kinds of locks Lockitron would fit over.) Think of it as parsing clean vs dirty data. Also with the car battery example, where are you hooking up what? Electricity follows the path of least resistance. If both jumpers are connected to the outside of the metal deadbolt, you're not going to affect the interior. You would need one jumper on either side of the door to do what I think you have in mind.
    - 12y ago
joenathan 12y ago
Preordered the Lockitron when is was first announced, after ~ 2 years got tired of waiting and canceled my order and bought a Yale ZWave smart lock. I am very happy with it, it has a touch screen, I can open it with a pin code, from my phone or even from my Android Wear watch. I love that it's ZWave because I don't have to use a separate app for it and other home automation devices, and I can set rules based on the condition of the other devices. Between getting burned on this and the SOAP router, I will never back a hardware based Kickstrarter. I figure it's better to let someone else pay for the privilege to get the alpha version and struggle with it until the bugs are worked out.
kxo 12y ago
August does everything they are claiming and doesn't require a total replacement.
pkorzeniewski 12y ago
I don't get it.. What's the point? How hard is opening a classic lock with a key? It's like a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.. You can easily imagine things going wrong like unreliability, dead phone or abuse of the "give access via email or SMS" feature
- smackfu 12y ago
  It's virtualizing the key, which lets you do some more fancy stuff than a physical key. Namely revoking and adding access without requiring key duplication or changing the locks.
- ics 12y ago
  > You can also use email or SMS to give access to a particular lock, so your friends and family can always get in without needing a key. Have a babysitter or a cleaner who comes by regularly? You’ll soon be able to give permission to individuals for specific portions of the day. From the article. Particularly useful for: AirBnB hosts, people with roommates, friends/family visiting, etc.
- macleanjr 12y ago
  I have a KwikSet Kevo, and it's been a huge convenience for me when returning home. I'm typically carrying several bags/waterbottle/misc items, and just tapping my lock rather than digging for a specific key is way easier, especially with hands full.
- post_break 12y ago
  I had a bluetooth deadbolt. I was able to give my friend a virtual key when he came to visit as I didn't have a spare for the deadbolt. The key was encrypted based on a username and password and I could revoke it at will. It filled a need for the time he stayed at my place and worked great.
  - r00fus 12y ago
    > I had a bluetooth deadbolt. I was able to give my friend a virtual key when he came to visit as I didn't have a spare for the deadbolt. Or you could have visited the locksmith (or your local hardware store with a key department) and gotten 1 or more spares in minutes.
steven2012 12y ago
I supported the current version of Lockitron, and cancelled my order after waiting over a year. I'm glad I did, based on the reviews and sheer unhappiness with the product. If the founders of Lockitron think that I will be fooled again by a new product, they're sorely mistaken. I'd rather support a lock that has been out in the field for longer with a company that has proven they can deliver a real product, like the August lock for sale at Apple stores.
hdfglkjsdfg 12y ago
key fob or some RFID is much easier to use than getting out your phone, flipping through the apps, finding your door app, opening your door app, pressing the button (not registering), pressing the button (fuck, not registering), ahh there we go.. your door is unlocked. If you're that worried about your nanny having a key, maybe you should stop trusting that person. A door lock only keeps out the honest anyway. Unless you live in a bunker.
- lkbm 12y ago
  I'll grant that breaking into a house is really easy, but it stops both the honest and the lazy, and most of us are usually pretty lazy.
- totalrobe 12y ago
  What if you have to travel and your friend is going to stay at your place for a night and feed your cat, but you aren't able to give him a physical key beforehand because he's also traveling out of state? It would be great to be able to authorize his phone to open the door. This may have happened to me.
  - UrMomReadsHN 12y ago
    >you aren't able to give him a physical key beforehand because he's also traveling out of state? I actually had this issue once. I solved it very easily, I put the key in an envelop and mailed it.
lsllc 12y ago
Is the bridge required? Or can I connect to existing wifi. If not, how about Smartthings hub compatibility?
- ccamrobertson 12y ago
  Bridge is not required for functionality, only if you want remote control. You can still share access with other users and get the benefit of Sense. While on the radar, we haven't announced any integrations with platforms just yet.
UrMomReadsHN 12y ago
Theres insurance issues to consider... If you report to your insurance company you have a deadbolt and then your house gets broken into. (Perhaps due to a flaw in the software?) Now your insurance company finds out you have a Bluetooth dohicky on your door rather than a physically locked deadlock lock. Your insurance now won't pay up. I'm not sure how much those Proxcards that every business in the world uses costs, but they sure are time tested and convenient. Probably expensive though. I believe they are RFID. Don't put this on your rental property either until you consult your local laws regarding requirements for doors and locks for rentals to see if this meets the requirements.
- toomuchtodo 12y ago
  > I'm not sure how much those Proxcards that every business in the world uses costs, but they sure are time tested and convenient. Probably expensive though. I installed a proximity card system a few jobs ago, and each IP enabled reader from HID (http://www.hidglobal.com/products/readers/iclass/rw400 http://www.hidglobal.com/products/readers/iclass/rw400) was about $550 for both the external RFID interface and then the internal in-wall control unit (that used POE Ethernet to connect to the network). The cost per card is fairly trivial. > Don't put this on your rental property either until you consult your local laws regarding requirements for doors and locks for rentals to see if this meets the requirements. There are no code issues with this as long as if power fails, internal occupants can still exit the building (fire code).
  - UrMomReadsHN 12y ago
    >There are no code issues with this How do you know? Landlord tenant laws are incredibly local (you can't possibly know all of them for all locales in the world) and can be very specific and probably haven't gotten caught up to new technology. My town (just the town!) has a 30+ page document on what a landlord has to provide a tenant written in very VERY specific terms. Thats not even considering state laws. And federal.
    - toomuchtodo 12y ago
hpvic03 12y ago
What does the other side of the lock look like? That's not clear from the website. Also, what happens if your phone is dead? This is a serious issue that's not mentioned anywhere on the website. It would be nice if there was a physical key backup.
- ccamrobertson 12y ago
  Sorry we didn't include this. It's very vanilla. See second 14 on this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bK8ToEdXI8I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bK8ToEdXI8I. Lockitron Bolt still comes with a physical key.
colinsidoti 12y ago
With Bridge, will this still work with the API?
- ccamrobertson 12y ago
  Yes, Bolt will be backwards compatible with our v2 API (https://api.lockitron.com https://api.lockitron.com).
sliken 12y ago
Yet another IoT widget that glosses over security with a "trust us"? Can I use it without an internet connection? Can a $15 software defined radio do a replay attack?
- ccamrobertson 12y ago
  Lockitron Bolt is BLE-only (although we require an intermittent connection through your handset to transmit encrypted key & log data) unless paired with Bridge. We've thought a lot about an option to use Lockitron entirely offline - is this what you're looking for?
  - x1798DE 12y ago
    I'm a bit confused by this comment. It sounds like you need to buy an extra thing for $49 to get it to work over the internet at all. Assuming you use the base model, what needs to go online, and who is the key and log data being transmitted to? I'm not interested in this product at the moment because of how my house is set up, but as a security and privacy-conscious person, I'd much prefer something that requires zero internet connection, even if that means using a version that has fewer features.
    - paulgerhardt 12y ago
      Bolt works locally over Bluetooth with no Internet connection. The optional extra thing (Bridge) is if you would like to enable Internet connectivity. A $15 dollar SDR wouldn't do it either. Most electronic locks aren't susceptible to replay attacks unless they're using KeeLoq and it's out of range. You might be able to do another kind of attack with three Ubertooth One's though. We got something like this working in our lab and I talked about it at DefCon 21 in the Wireless Village track - the basic patch is to use corroborate with other data (geo, time, etc.)
      - sliken 12y ago
        So there's a one time password sent over BLE? Or is it just the fact that a successful pairing was made? The former would be great, the later not so much.
fchollet 12y ago
We had a Lockitron on the main door at my previous office. I can't even tell you how many times I got locked out because the device would get stuck (only way to open the door in these cases was with the key, which only two people had). Their app was the most buggy piece of Android software I've ever had the privilege of using, which is pretty amazing for an app that consists of one single button. It was essentially a webview on the lockitron website, and it would often just display raw-html error messages instead of the lock/unlock button. The sheer amateurism of this "company" blows my mind. I wouldn't touch this new product with a ten foot pole.
- Animats 12y ago
  That was the old version. The new version has no mechanical key backup. Most of the other lock manufacturers selling remote-controlled locks have retained a mechanical key. These things run on batteries, after all. Their site still says "Any smartphone can control Lockitron through our mobile website." What could possibly go wrong with a website that can unlock thousands of doors? Do they offer "lawful access" to cops? Do you get told when that happens? Agree on "sheer amateurism". This is version 2 of their product, they've been in business for a while, and they're only taking "pre-orders".
  - desdiv 12y ago
    OP mentioned it being an office, so giving every employee a backup mechanical key might not be viable, depending on how paranoid the employer is.
  - jzwinck 12y ago
    Some electronic locks have a terminal on the outside for a 9V battery in case the internal batteries die. For example: http://www.interlock.com.sg/index.php/products/gateman-digital-locks/gateman-a20-fd-a20fhh http://www.interlock.com.sg/index.php/products/gateman-digit... No mechanical key and no emergency battery terminal? Better have another door.
bravo22 12y ago
What's the ANSI rating of the deadbolt? Is it some cheap Chinese OEM version? With all due respect, but considering all the issues with the first Lockitron (which apparently hasn't shipped to all backers yet) I'd have serious considerations trusting this product. If you couldn't ship a product that would rotate a motor, how should we trust you now to actually have a reliable physical lock and keyway as well!?
- paulgerhardt 12y ago
  You're a tough one to please. Bolt is spec'd for Grade 2. Previously you complained Lockitron was too expensive[1], now you complain it's too cheap? [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8028912 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8028912
  - bravo22 12y ago
    For reference Kwisket/Weiser locks, even the basic deadbolts like 980, are ANSI Grade 1. So why would you provide an inferior bolt!? I'm not complaining about the price. I'm concerned that now there are two points of failure and that not only there is the risk of the electronics not working and randomly stopping (based on your track record of poor product development) but people are putting an inferior mechanical deadbolt on their door which can be broken into easier and possibly fail more than a regular $20 deadbolt from Home Depot. I would think as a company with such a checkered past you would be more humble instead of attacking your potential user base.
    - paulgerhardt 12y ago
      Are you asking rhetorically or do you earnestly want to know?
      - bravo22 12y ago
        I'm puzzled as to why you would provide a Grade 2 instead of a Grade 1. So yes I would like to know what the reasoning was behind that.
broknbottle 12y ago
I can't believe these guys still haven't shipped out product for the original crowd funding campaign. I wouldn't waste my time with this company.
ianburrell 12y ago
I find it interesting that Lockitron ended up with the same design as the other smart locks. They all replace the lock, are Bluetooth only, and use bridge for remote connection.
Balgair 12y ago
Friends and I were having beers and decided to come up with the most absurd product we could conceive of actually getting funded. One guess as to what it was. Honestly, doors and locks do not need 'disruption.' Many many other things could use this treatment and the hours put in. Aside: We decided the pricing sweet spot was 40, as that's about double the cost of a real lock. Also, this actually passes one of the Valley tests, that the company help get you laid (Fb, Google, Uber, etc all do this and the lock here does too as it is 'James Bond-y')
- comex 12y ago
  As someone who's very forgetful and tends to leave things behind, I must disagree. When I was in college a few years ago, I left my door unlocked for a period of months, because I had lost my keys, but replacing keys required a fee (increasing every time) and was generally a cumbersome process. I suppose an easy solution would be to not have an obnoxious fee, but if I had had a Lockitron, I could have just used my phone, and if I lost my phone (which, of course, has a remote GPS function), I could have switched to a new one. A different use case: over New Year's I was on a trip to Germany, working with some friends in a hackerspace there. Since it was a private space (and open at all hours), the door was not kept unlocked, but a relatively large number of people had access to it. The hackerspace could have handed out keys, or used some more complicated keycard system, but instead they used a Lockitron-like device (not sure which one; it being a hackerspace, they were managing the lock over SSH!). This way they could give anyone (potentially temporary) access without complicated logistics. First world solutions.
  - Balgair 12y ago
    Good write-up. Also, Denny's is a shining counterpoint to this. Many locations are 24/7/365. Friends have made it to store management and are explicitly told that though there are locks on the front doors, no-one has the keys as they typically loose them. Apparently, this is not uncommon. I heard about a place in LA that hasn't closed in 50 years or something. The only time they tried to was during the Rodney King riots, but as the keys were long gone, they decided to stay open.
rsync 12y ago
Remember when you would see someones Windows XP system, and they had 40 systray icons all running and blinking in the lower right ? You know those people that have 20 different OSX extensions all running in the upper right ? That's what I think of when I think of having 50 different networked computers all chattering away on Internet/bluetooth/wifi/zigbee/whatever throughout every room of my house.
- Carrok 12y ago
  Just counted my icons in the upper right of my OS X. 25. They all do awesome stuff though.
mrchess 12y ago
After a 2+ year shipping delay for a defunct product, this company will never see a penny of my money ever again. Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.
kefka 12y ago
Wow. This company sure seems like a gold-plated turd in their dealings. Nope, they shall see none of my money. I'll also pass the word around that their stuff doesn't work.
pdx6 12y ago
I ended up buying a Lockitron used on Fobo, and the sucker just didn't work. I tried for days to get it to set my wifi settings, and when it finally did work, the lock/unlock wasn't real time from the app; I would have to knock on my door to wake up the Lockitron so it would let me in. I did find their support helpful, but the out of box experience was pretty crappy. Eventually I had the lock working fine and all I had to do was remember to swap out the batteries every month or so. Unfortunately, the thumb turn on my lock stripped and I have to replace the deadbolt now. I'm not sure if this was Lockitron's fault or that I didn't tighten in the thumb turn retention bolt enough after I install their door adapter. I would consider either the classic Lockitron or the Bolt, even after this. I remember when I was at the DefCon Wifi Village and someone from Lockitron offered hackers $1000 to turn the bolt remotely; pretty ballsy!
nodata 12y ago
Does anyone know? If I smash the front off one of these (the public facing part), can I wire it up to open the lock?

85 points by paulgerhardt 12y ago

post_break 12y ago

I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole with how they've handled the original lockitron.

Zhenya 12y ago
Context; link; something for reference?
- minikites 12y ago
  It's right there in the article: http://techcrunch.com/2014/01/16/lockitrons-long-march/ http://techcrunch.com/2014/01/16/lockitrons-long-march/
  - Zhenya 12y ago
    OP was references something so horrid that he would physically not come into contact with said device. The article mentions smoothed-over growing pains for a new hardware company.
- post_break 12y ago
  Never really shipping, constant delays, bad communication, device failures, android lagging behind, etc etc. http://www.reddit.com/r/lockitron http://www.reddit.com/r/lockitron
  - Karunamon 12y ago
    88 readers with a huge delay between posts. Is it really that bad?
    - post_break 12y ago
      Go through and read the posts. Doesn't seem like a single person was happy with their lockitron. Some are still waiting for theirs to ship... It's a dud.
      - Karunamon 12y ago
        Same thing was said about Soylent, who just now are getting their house in order. Shipping delays for kickstarted products are not a new or unexepcted thing nowadays.
        george88b 12y ago
        What do you mean? Their product delay was minimal compared to lockitron (~2years!) and they kept everyone well informed regarding the delay(same can not be said for lockitron). Their refined shipping estimates in light of delays were also spot on. I could not be happier with how Soylent handled things, while I would NEVER purchase anything from lockitron again.
        mikeash 12y ago
        I pre-ordered one in August 2013. Note: pre-ordered, not "kickstarted" or anything of the like. I went to their web site, I saw the product described, I saw a predicted ship date a few weeks away, I placed an order, I gave them money. A year and a half later and I still don't have it. Communication has been pretty bad, with many blown dates, infrequent messages, and a dashboard that often showed "ship by" dates that were months in the past. Now they're switching my order to a completely different product that I'm not sure I want. Pre-orders have risk too, but not of even remotely the same magnitude. This behavior might be reasonable for a crowdfunded product, but not for one where the product is supposedly done and shipping imminently.
  - Deebot 12y ago
    With such a good track record with all of that, I would absolutely trust a device these people made to secure my home! /s
- kylec 12y ago
  I placed a preorder for a Lockitron on Jan 12, 2013, with the general expectation that it would ship in the spring/summer of that year. It did not. I'm still waiting for it.

kylec 12y ago

They're apparently switching pre-orders for the crowdfunded Lockitron to Lockitron Bolt (http://help.lockitron.com/article/95-whats-bolt-and-how-will-my-lockitron-order-change http://help.lockitron.com/article/95-whats-bolt-and-how-will...). This is disappointing because Lockitron Bolt is a different kind of product - instead of sitting on top of the deadbolt, you have to replace it instead. This makes it unsuitable for renters like me. It looks like I'll have to cancel my order.

prezjordan 12y ago
Is there a price difference, and will folks who pre-ordered get a refund?
- kylec 12y ago
  There is a price difference - I preordered at $159 and the regular Lockitron preorder price was $179. The announced pricing for the Lockitron Bolt is $99. No idea how they'll handle the refunds though.
- paulgerhardt 12y ago
  There is a price difference for people who switch from the previous crowdfunded Lockitron to the Bluetooth only Lock with no Bridge. The difference will be refunded when we start shipping. More details in the Bolt FAQ: http://help.lockitron.com/article/95-whats-bolt-and-how-will-my-lockitron-order-change http://help.lockitron.com/article/95-whats-bolt-and-how-will...
tashoecraft 12y ago
If you are willing to swap it out when you leave there shouldn't be a problem just because you rent. They have an option called Key Match mentioned on their website (didn't see it in the article) that allows you to match it to your existing key. They don't say whether you can later change to a different key or not, but you really shouldn't have a problem just because you rent.
- bcj 12y ago

mattmaroon 12y ago

The original Lockitron is one of the worst products I've ever purchased. BTLE doesn't work with my phone (LG G3). Battery lasts about 3 days. Sleeps all the time and doesn't wake up unless I pull a Jean Claude Van Damme-style roundhouse on the door. It's pretty much 100% useless but hey, at least I spent $1,300 replacing my front door half so I could use that.

ccamrobertson 12y ago
Matt, sorry that we screwed up with the crowdfunded Lockitron. We're still working to solve the Bluetooth issues on Android which, until very recently, have been inherent in the stack. The frustration of sleeping Lockitron is why we're moving to a separate WiFi component (Bridge). Let me know if there's anything I can do in the meantime (cameron [at]).
- mattmaroon 12y ago
  Separate wifi component would be great. There needs to be something plugged in all the time. Will you be replacing the crowdfunded one with a better one? (I don't even mind replacing the deadbolt.) Edit: also I love you guys. You've done a great job keeping people up to date, handling support requests (my emails get answered in hours). I think you'll get there. Just frustrated with the product.
  - ccamrobertson 12y ago
    Yes, that's exactly what Lockitron Bolt + Bridge is meant to do. Replacement deadbolt, separate WiFi to help battery life.
    - mattmaroon 12y ago
      I meant would people who bought the crowdfunded one be able to send it in and get the Bolt+Bridge? I'd be ecstatic to do that.
- andrey-g 12y ago

adanto6840 12y ago

At least their preorder process didn't require advance payment like so many other recent hardware "campaigns" of late. Still a bummer though... I got tired of the delays and bought a Kevo; doesn't fully satisfy all the things I wanted from Lockitron but hey, I can buy it at the local Home Depot today.

djrogers 12y ago
I preordered in Oct 2012, but they made me pay in Oct 2013. Recently cancelled my order, as it never shipped...

flatline 12y ago

I have trouble imagining this sort of mechanical device working reliably. You can hardly compare it to Nest, which really has no moving parts. Our front door has quite a bit of wiggle room, and if the house settles after locking the door you find that you must push the door about 1mm out or the weight of the door rests against the deadbolt and it's pretty much impossible to move by hand. Similarly, most doors and the surrounding frame are subject to seasonal and even daily expansion and contraction based on heat and humidity. It just sounds like a very temperamental device. Does anyone know the reality of how well these work?

adanto6840 12y ago
I have a similar product (to the Bolt) called Kevo and it's been quite reliable, 100% even. That said, my door's deadbolt is a "loose" fit if anything and our climate stays very dry year round...
madaxe_again 12y ago
Never mind mechanical reliability - the fact that it's an outright replacement concerns me. I wonder what the behaviour would be if I hooked a car battery up to the exterior lock... not a concern with the previous, electrically disconnected from the exterior, model. Oh, and how well it fares when rain gets in it.
- paulgerhardt 12y ago
  An outright replacement acutually makes for a more robust product as we can control all the variables (how much rotation, how much force, and so on.) The previous version of Lockitron had to work in an unconstrained environment (vastly different characteristics for different kinds of locks Lockitron would fit over.) Think of it as parsing clean vs dirty data. Also with the car battery example, where are you hooking up what? Electricity follows the path of least resistance. If both jumpers are connected to the outside of the metal deadbolt, you're not going to affect the interior. You would need one jumper on either side of the door to do what I think you have in mind.
  - 12y ago

joenathan 12y ago

Preordered the Lockitron when is was first announced, after ~ 2 years got tired of waiting and canceled my order and bought a Yale ZWave smart lock. I am very happy with it, it has a touch screen, I can open it with a pin code, from my phone or even from my Android Wear watch. I love that it's ZWave because I don't have to use a separate app for it and other home automation devices, and I can set rules based on the condition of the other devices. Between getting burned on this and the SOAP router, I will never back a hardware based Kickstrarter. I figure it's better to let someone else pay for the privilege to get the alpha version and struggle with it until the bugs are worked out.

kxo 12y ago

August does everything they are claiming and doesn't require a total replacement.

pkorzeniewski 12y ago

I don't get it.. What's the point? How hard is opening a classic lock with a key? It's like a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.. You can easily imagine things going wrong like unreliability, dead phone or abuse of the "give access via email or SMS" feature

smackfu 12y ago
It's virtualizing the key, which lets you do some more fancy stuff than a physical key. Namely revoking and adding access without requiring key duplication or changing the locks.
ics 12y ago
> You can also use email or SMS to give access to a particular lock, so your friends and family can always get in without needing a key. Have a babysitter or a cleaner who comes by regularly? You’ll soon be able to give permission to individuals for specific portions of the day. From the article. Particularly useful for: AirBnB hosts, people with roommates, friends/family visiting, etc.
macleanjr 12y ago
I have a KwikSet Kevo, and it's been a huge convenience for me when returning home. I'm typically carrying several bags/waterbottle/misc items, and just tapping my lock rather than digging for a specific key is way easier, especially with hands full.
post_break 12y ago
I had a bluetooth deadbolt. I was able to give my friend a virtual key when he came to visit as I didn't have a spare for the deadbolt. The key was encrypted based on a username and password and I could revoke it at will. It filled a need for the time he stayed at my place and worked great.
- r00fus 12y ago
  > I had a bluetooth deadbolt. I was able to give my friend a virtual key when he came to visit as I didn't have a spare for the deadbolt. Or you could have visited the locksmith (or your local hardware store with a key department) and gotten 1 or more spares in minutes.

steven2012 12y ago

I supported the current version of Lockitron, and cancelled my order after waiting over a year. I'm glad I did, based on the reviews and sheer unhappiness with the product. If the founders of Lockitron think that I will be fooled again by a new product, they're sorely mistaken. I'd rather support a lock that has been out in the field for longer with a company that has proven they can deliver a real product, like the August lock for sale at Apple stores.

hdfglkjsdfg 12y ago

key fob or some RFID is much easier to use than getting out your phone, flipping through the apps, finding your door app, opening your door app, pressing the button (not registering), pressing the button (fuck, not registering), ahh there we go.. your door is unlocked. If you're that worried about your nanny having a key, maybe you should stop trusting that person. A door lock only keeps out the honest anyway. Unless you live in a bunker.

lkbm 12y ago
I'll grant that breaking into a house is really easy, but it stops both the honest and the lazy, and most of us are usually pretty lazy.
totalrobe 12y ago
What if you have to travel and your friend is going to stay at your place for a night and feed your cat, but you aren't able to give him a physical key beforehand because he's also traveling out of state? It would be great to be able to authorize his phone to open the door. This may have happened to me.
- UrMomReadsHN 12y ago
  >you aren't able to give him a physical key beforehand because he's also traveling out of state? I actually had this issue once. I solved it very easily, I put the key in an envelop and mailed it.

lsllc 12y ago

Is the bridge required? Or can I connect to existing wifi. If not, how about Smartthings hub compatibility?

ccamrobertson 12y ago
Bridge is not required for functionality, only if you want remote control. You can still share access with other users and get the benefit of Sense. While on the radar, we haven't announced any integrations with platforms just yet.

UrMomReadsHN 12y ago

Theres insurance issues to consider... If you report to your insurance company you have a deadbolt and then your house gets broken into. (Perhaps due to a flaw in the software?) Now your insurance company finds out you have a Bluetooth dohicky on your door rather than a physically locked deadlock lock. Your insurance now won't pay up. I'm not sure how much those Proxcards that every business in the world uses costs, but they sure are time tested and convenient. Probably expensive though. I believe they are RFID. Don't put this on your rental property either until you consult your local laws regarding requirements for doors and locks for rentals to see if this meets the requirements.

toomuchtodo 12y ago
> I'm not sure how much those Proxcards that every business in the world uses costs, but they sure are time tested and convenient. Probably expensive though. I installed a proximity card system a few jobs ago, and each IP enabled reader from HID (http://www.hidglobal.com/products/readers/iclass/rw400 http://www.hidglobal.com/products/readers/iclass/rw400) was about $550 for both the external RFID interface and then the internal in-wall control unit (that used POE Ethernet to connect to the network). The cost per card is fairly trivial. > Don't put this on your rental property either until you consult your local laws regarding requirements for doors and locks for rentals to see if this meets the requirements. There are no code issues with this as long as if power fails, internal occupants can still exit the building (fire code).
- UrMomReadsHN 12y ago
  >There are no code issues with this How do you know? Landlord tenant laws are incredibly local (you can't possibly know all of them for all locales in the world) and can be very specific and probably haven't gotten caught up to new technology. My town (just the town!) has a 30+ page document on what a landlord has to provide a tenant written in very VERY specific terms. Thats not even considering state laws. And federal.
  - toomuchtodo 12y ago

hpvic03 12y ago

What does the other side of the lock look like? That's not clear from the website. Also, what happens if your phone is dead? This is a serious issue that's not mentioned anywhere on the website. It would be nice if there was a physical key backup.

ccamrobertson 12y ago
Sorry we didn't include this. It's very vanilla. See second 14 on this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bK8ToEdXI8I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bK8ToEdXI8I. Lockitron Bolt still comes with a physical key.

colinsidoti 12y ago

With Bridge, will this still work with the API?

ccamrobertson 12y ago
Yes, Bolt will be backwards compatible with our v2 API (https://api.lockitron.com https://api.lockitron.com).

sliken 12y ago

Yet another IoT widget that glosses over security with a "trust us"? Can I use it without an internet connection? Can a $15 software defined radio do a replay attack?

ccamrobertson 12y ago
Lockitron Bolt is BLE-only (although we require an intermittent connection through your handset to transmit encrypted key & log data) unless paired with Bridge. We've thought a lot about an option to use Lockitron entirely offline - is this what you're looking for?
- x1798DE 12y ago
  I'm a bit confused by this comment. It sounds like you need to buy an extra thing for $49 to get it to work over the internet at all. Assuming you use the base model, what needs to go online, and who is the key and log data being transmitted to? I'm not interested in this product at the moment because of how my house is set up, but as a security and privacy-conscious person, I'd much prefer something that requires zero internet connection, even if that means using a version that has fewer features.
  - paulgerhardt 12y ago
    Bolt works locally over Bluetooth with no Internet connection. The optional extra thing (Bridge) is if you would like to enable Internet connectivity. A $15 dollar SDR wouldn't do it either. Most electronic locks aren't susceptible to replay attacks unless they're using KeeLoq and it's out of range. You might be able to do another kind of attack with three Ubertooth One's though. We got something like this working in our lab and I talked about it at DefCon 21 in the Wireless Village track - the basic patch is to use corroborate with other data (geo, time, etc.)
    - sliken 12y ago
      So there's a one time password sent over BLE? Or is it just the fact that a successful pairing was made? The former would be great, the later not so much.

fchollet 12y ago

We had a Lockitron on the main door at my previous office. I can't even tell you how many times I got locked out because the device would get stuck (only way to open the door in these cases was with the key, which only two people had). Their app was the most buggy piece of Android software I've ever had the privilege of using, which is pretty amazing for an app that consists of one single button. It was essentially a webview on the lockitron website, and it would often just display raw-html error messages instead of the lock/unlock button. The sheer amateurism of this "company" blows my mind. I wouldn't touch this new product with a ten foot pole.

Animats 12y ago
That was the old version. The new version has no mechanical key backup. Most of the other lock manufacturers selling remote-controlled locks have retained a mechanical key. These things run on batteries, after all. Their site still says "Any smartphone can control Lockitron through our mobile website." What could possibly go wrong with a website that can unlock thousands of doors? Do they offer "lawful access" to cops? Do you get told when that happens? Agree on "sheer amateurism". This is version 2 of their product, they've been in business for a while, and they're only taking "pre-orders".
- desdiv 12y ago
  OP mentioned it being an office, so giving every employee a backup mechanical key might not be viable, depending on how paranoid the employer is.
- jzwinck 12y ago
  Some electronic locks have a terminal on the outside for a 9V battery in case the internal batteries die. For example: http://www.interlock.com.sg/index.php/products/gateman-digital-locks/gateman-a20-fd-a20fhh http://www.interlock.com.sg/index.php/products/gateman-digit... No mechanical key and no emergency battery terminal? Better have another door.

bravo22 12y ago

What's the ANSI rating of the deadbolt? Is it some cheap Chinese OEM version? With all due respect, but considering all the issues with the first Lockitron (which apparently hasn't shipped to all backers yet) I'd have serious considerations trusting this product. If you couldn't ship a product that would rotate a motor, how should we trust you now to actually have a reliable physical lock and keyway as well!?

paulgerhardt 12y ago
You're a tough one to please. Bolt is spec'd for Grade 2. Previously you complained Lockitron was too expensive[1], now you complain it's too cheap? [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8028912 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8028912
- bravo22 12y ago
  For reference Kwisket/Weiser locks, even the basic deadbolts like 980, are ANSI Grade 1. So why would you provide an inferior bolt!? I'm not complaining about the price. I'm concerned that now there are two points of failure and that not only there is the risk of the electronics not working and randomly stopping (based on your track record of poor product development) but people are putting an inferior mechanical deadbolt on their door which can be broken into easier and possibly fail more than a regular $20 deadbolt from Home Depot. I would think as a company with such a checkered past you would be more humble instead of attacking your potential user base.
  - paulgerhardt 12y ago
    Are you asking rhetorically or do you earnestly want to know?
    - bravo22 12y ago
      I'm puzzled as to why you would provide a Grade 2 instead of a Grade 1. So yes I would like to know what the reasoning was behind that.

broknbottle 12y ago

I can't believe these guys still haven't shipped out product for the original crowd funding campaign. I wouldn't waste my time with this company.

ianburrell 12y ago

I find it interesting that Lockitron ended up with the same design as the other smart locks. They all replace the lock, are Bluetooth only, and use bridge for remote connection.

Balgair 12y ago

Friends and I were having beers and decided to come up with the most absurd product we could conceive of actually getting funded. One guess as to what it was. Honestly, doors and locks do not need 'disruption.' Many many other things could use this treatment and the hours put in. Aside: We decided the pricing sweet spot was 40, as that's about double the cost of a real lock. Also, this actually passes one of the Valley tests, that the company help get you laid (Fb, Google, Uber, etc all do this and the lock here does too as it is 'James Bond-y')

comex 12y ago
As someone who's very forgetful and tends to leave things behind, I must disagree. When I was in college a few years ago, I left my door unlocked for a period of months, because I had lost my keys, but replacing keys required a fee (increasing every time) and was generally a cumbersome process. I suppose an easy solution would be to not have an obnoxious fee, but if I had had a Lockitron, I could have just used my phone, and if I lost my phone (which, of course, has a remote GPS function), I could have switched to a new one. A different use case: over New Year's I was on a trip to Germany, working with some friends in a hackerspace there. Since it was a private space (and open at all hours), the door was not kept unlocked, but a relatively large number of people had access to it. The hackerspace could have handed out keys, or used some more complicated keycard system, but instead they used a Lockitron-like device (not sure which one; it being a hackerspace, they were managing the lock over SSH!). This way they could give anyone (potentially temporary) access without complicated logistics. First world solutions.
- Balgair 12y ago
  Good write-up. Also, Denny's is a shining counterpoint to this. Many locations are 24/7/365. Friends have made it to store management and are explicitly told that though there are locks on the front doors, no-one has the keys as they typically loose them. Apparently, this is not uncommon. I heard about a place in LA that hasn't closed in 50 years or something. The only time they tried to was during the Rodney King riots, but as the keys were long gone, they decided to stay open.

rsync 12y ago

Remember when you would see someones Windows XP system, and they had 40 systray icons all running and blinking in the lower right ? You know those people that have 20 different OSX extensions all running in the upper right ? That's what I think of when I think of having 50 different networked computers all chattering away on Internet/bluetooth/wifi/zigbee/whatever throughout every room of my house.

Carrok 12y ago
Just counted my icons in the upper right of my OS X. 25. They all do awesome stuff though.

mrchess 12y ago

After a 2+ year shipping delay for a defunct product, this company will never see a penny of my money ever again. Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.

kefka 12y ago

Wow. This company sure seems like a gold-plated turd in their dealings. Nope, they shall see none of my money. I'll also pass the word around that their stuff doesn't work.

pdx6 12y ago

I ended up buying a Lockitron used on Fobo, and the sucker just didn't work. I tried for days to get it to set my wifi settings, and when it finally did work, the lock/unlock wasn't real time from the app; I would have to knock on my door to wake up the Lockitron so it would let me in. I did find their support helpful, but the out of box experience was pretty crappy. Eventually I had the lock working fine and all I had to do was remember to swap out the batteries every month or so. Unfortunately, the thumb turn on my lock stripped and I have to replace the deadbolt now. I'm not sure if this was Lockitron's fault or that I didn't tighten in the thumb turn retention bolt enough after I install their door adapter. I would consider either the classic Lockitron or the Bolt, even after this. I remember when I was at the DefCon Wifi Village and someone from Lockitron offered hackers $1000 to turn the bolt remotely; pretty ballsy!

nodata 12y ago

Does anyone know? If I smash the front off one of these (the public facing part), can I wire it up to open the lock?