3 ms·

I'll get voted down on this for sure, but I can't see the problem. Nobody is making startups apply Keiretsu, and if Y-Combinator and Jason won't invest in your

I'll get voted down on this for sure, but I can't see the problem. Nobody is making startups apply Keiretsu, and if Y-Combinator and Jason won't invest in your startup what's wrong with deciding to pay to let Keiretsu consider funding you? Better a startup pays some money and has a least one company consider their application than nobody does.

netsp 17y ago
The problem is that it creates a problematic incentive structure.
- lupin_sansei 17y ago
  You mean Keiretsu has an incentive to listen to many applications but to maybe fund few? Startups also have an incentive to only apply to places that they think they have a chance at getting funding from (especially if they have to pay). If Keiretsu don't fund very many startups word will get out and startups will stop applying.
  - paulbaumgart 17y ago
    How would "word get out"? Vague insinuations? I haven't seen them publish any hard statistics, so how can a group know if it's just them that got rejected for funding, or if it's pretty much everyone who applies?
    - netsp 17y ago
      Word is getting out. This forum, that blog. That is word getting out. I'm sure fewer startups are applying.
  - netsp 17y ago
    I mean Keiretsu has an incentive to listen to as many applications as possible. Your right about startups having incentives too. However, Keiretsu have all the information. hey have an incentive to keep it that way. Investors, on the other hand, play the game more regularly. It's impossible to keep the information from them long term. If they had to pay to come, they would need to be finding good investments. Startups don't have this feedback, at least not without things like public complaints.
jacquesm 17y ago
It's ok if you can't see the problem, really. There are plenty of people that play the lottery, and there are plenty of people that don't. Some see trouble and loss where others see a chance. So, feel free to approach Keiretsu with your idea now, since they've stopped charging, you really can't lose. Or do you think that maybe since they did this in the past they might have a little ethical problem somewhere ? If Jason Calacanis fails with 37 Signals and all he does is keep the VC world on their toes he's got my vote. It's like banking, if banks started charging you a $500 application fee for a $10000 loan, how would you feel ? What if they charged you the fee anyway even if they declined you ? Why would they ever grant a loan then, after all there is more profit in getting people to apply endlessly and every now and the at random approve a loan to keep them hopeful.
- lupin_sansei 17y ago
  "Why would they ever grant a loan then, after all there is more profit in getting people to apply endlessly and every now and the at random approve a loan to keep them hopeful." Because once people realised that no more loans were being given out they would stop applying to banks that didn't give out loans. The same thing will happen to Keiretsu if they never funded anyone.
  - netsp 17y ago
    That is where the problem comes in. Something like that needs to surface. If it is a huge bank, people would know. If it a little 'broker' people might not. What Jason is trying to do is bring this to the surface. He attempts to be part of the process by which 'people realised that no more loans were being given out" so that they stop applying for loans, except with investment.
- kgrin 17y ago
  Wrong Jason... Calacanis is Mahalo & others... 37signals is Jason Fried. (Minor, of course, though I suppose not to the Jasons!)
  - jacquesm 17y ago

netsp 17y ago

The problem is that it creates a problematic incentive structure.

lupin_sansei 17y ago
You mean Keiretsu has an incentive to listen to many applications but to maybe fund few? Startups also have an incentive to only apply to places that they think they have a chance at getting funding from (especially if they have to pay). If Keiretsu don't fund very many startups word will get out and startups will stop applying.
- paulbaumgart 17y ago
  How would "word get out"? Vague insinuations? I haven't seen them publish any hard statistics, so how can a group know if it's just them that got rejected for funding, or if it's pretty much everyone who applies?
  - netsp 17y ago
    Word is getting out. This forum, that blog. That is word getting out. I'm sure fewer startups are applying.
- netsp 17y ago
  I mean Keiretsu has an incentive to listen to as many applications as possible. Your right about startups having incentives too. However, Keiretsu have all the information. hey have an incentive to keep it that way. Investors, on the other hand, play the game more regularly. It's impossible to keep the information from them long term. If they had to pay to come, they would need to be finding good investments. Startups don't have this feedback, at least not without things like public complaints.

jacquesm 17y ago

It's ok if you can't see the problem, really. There are plenty of people that play the lottery, and there are plenty of people that don't. Some see trouble and loss where others see a chance. So, feel free to approach Keiretsu with your idea now, since they've stopped charging, you really can't lose. Or do you think that maybe since they did this in the past they might have a little ethical problem somewhere ? If Jason Calacanis fails with 37 Signals and all he does is keep the VC world on their toes he's got my vote. It's like banking, if banks started charging you a $500 application fee for a $10000 loan, how would you feel ? What if they charged you the fee anyway even if they declined you ? Why would they ever grant a loan then, after all there is more profit in getting people to apply endlessly and every now and the at random approve a loan to keep them hopeful.

lupin_sansei 17y ago
"Why would they ever grant a loan then, after all there is more profit in getting people to apply endlessly and every now and the at random approve a loan to keep them hopeful." Because once people realised that no more loans were being given out they would stop applying to banks that didn't give out loans. The same thing will happen to Keiretsu if they never funded anyone.
- netsp 17y ago
  That is where the problem comes in. Something like that needs to surface. If it is a huge bank, people would know. If it a little 'broker' people might not. What Jason is trying to do is bring this to the surface. He attempts to be part of the process by which 'people realised that no more loans were being given out" so that they stop applying for loans, except with investment.
kgrin 17y ago
Wrong Jason... Calacanis is Mahalo & others... 37signals is Jason Fried. (Minor, of course, though I suppose not to the Jasons!)
- jacquesm 17y ago