8 ms·

An alternative point of view is that the Maker culture is basically arts and crafts for men so it actually is a positive example of "raising our sons more like

An alternative point of view is that the Maker culture is basically arts and crafts for men so it actually is a positive example of "raising our sons more like our daughters", to use her example. It provides a positive creative outlet that isn't about competition, success, building a business, etc. which almost all men's activities seem to have to be centered on. In any event, thought provoking article...

ForHackernews 12y ago
Except that it's becoming increasingly co-opted by commerce. How many non-commercial "maker" events are there? Make Magazine and various others are explictly selling the maker ethos, and using the maker "brand" to sell other things.
- Animats 12y ago
  That's true, and it's why I only exhibited at Maker Faire once. We felt we were being used as free entertainers for a flea market.
- guyzero 12y ago
  Michael's also sells more than just the literal stuff in their store - they sell the entire notion of doing things yourself. It's no different. All it means is that "man crafts" have caught up to "woman crafts".
  - electromagnetic 12y ago
    An illustrative division would be: Micheals is predominantly "woman crafts" in that the main portion of the store is devoted to the classical archetypal "woman work" like knitting, crochet, decorating, etc. Yes it sells the entire notion of DIY. I think last I was in there was one isle that was classical "man stuff". However, the main store behind the notion of DIY for men is Home Depot (and the other hardware stores). The inverse is shown here where the décor section usually takes up one isle. We need to stop assigning gender roles to activities. I have a 20 month old son, and me and my wife try very hard to not genderize behaviours or activities.
    - infinite8s 12y ago
      The difficulty is getting everyone else around you (especially grandparents and other family) not to do the genderizing. It almost gets to the point where I'd rather they not interact with my children.
brianpgordon 12y ago
How do you and the author see this at all as a gender issue? The author says that coding is making "because it is widely perceived to be done by men" and that there are "gendered, capitalist benefits of being a person who makes products." I am utterly baffled. Where does this even come from? How do you look at this issue and see even a whiff of anything related to gender?
- philwelch 12y ago
  "A fanatic is someone who can't change his mind and won't change the subject".
- zzzeek 12y ago
  > How do you look at this issue and see even a whiff of anything related to gender? How about the article's explanation? It requires historical context (that is, can't be looked at in a vacuum). > Walk through a museum. Look around a city. Almost all the artifacts that we value as a society were made by or at the order of men. But behind every one is an invisible infrastructure of labor—primarily caregiving, in its various aspects—that is mostly performed by women. yes? or no?
  - hueving 12y ago
    >yes? or no? No. Until I see some proof that these men were incompetent/useless until they had a caregiver, I think this is complete bogus to justify a role that wasn't really needed. If full-time caregiving was required, you would not encounter single people that could function in society and you would never meet a child with both parents employed.
    - blueMist 12y ago
      Agree with the single people aspect, but a child whose parents are both employed is being cared by someone else. And unless the parents are well-off, that someone else is either not paid or badly paid.
- Rapzid 12y ago
BertMan1678 12y ago
"An alternative point of view is that the Maker culture is basically arts and crafts for men ..." Yes ... because of course making is for boys and "arts and crafts" is for girls. [Sigh]

ForHackernews 12y ago

Except that it's becoming increasingly co-opted by commerce. How many non-commercial "maker" events are there? Make Magazine and various others are explictly selling the maker ethos, and using the maker "brand" to sell other things.

Animats 12y ago
That's true, and it's why I only exhibited at Maker Faire once. We felt we were being used as free entertainers for a flea market.
guyzero 12y ago
Michael's also sells more than just the literal stuff in their store - they sell the entire notion of doing things yourself. It's no different. All it means is that "man crafts" have caught up to "woman crafts".
- electromagnetic 12y ago
  An illustrative division would be: Micheals is predominantly "woman crafts" in that the main portion of the store is devoted to the classical archetypal "woman work" like knitting, crochet, decorating, etc. Yes it sells the entire notion of DIY. I think last I was in there was one isle that was classical "man stuff". However, the main store behind the notion of DIY for men is Home Depot (and the other hardware stores). The inverse is shown here where the décor section usually takes up one isle. We need to stop assigning gender roles to activities. I have a 20 month old son, and me and my wife try very hard to not genderize behaviours or activities.
  - infinite8s 12y ago
    The difficulty is getting everyone else around you (especially grandparents and other family) not to do the genderizing. It almost gets to the point where I'd rather they not interact with my children.

brianpgordon 12y ago

How do you and the author see this at all as a gender issue? The author says that coding is making "because it is widely perceived to be done by men" and that there are "gendered, capitalist benefits of being a person who makes products." I am utterly baffled. Where does this even come from? How do you look at this issue and see even a whiff of anything related to gender?

philwelch 12y ago
"A fanatic is someone who can't change his mind and won't change the subject".
zzzeek 12y ago
> How do you look at this issue and see even a whiff of anything related to gender? How about the article's explanation? It requires historical context (that is, can't be looked at in a vacuum). > Walk through a museum. Look around a city. Almost all the artifacts that we value as a society were made by or at the order of men. But behind every one is an invisible infrastructure of labor—primarily caregiving, in its various aspects—that is mostly performed by women. yes? or no?
- hueving 12y ago
  >yes? or no? No. Until I see some proof that these men were incompetent/useless until they had a caregiver, I think this is complete bogus to justify a role that wasn't really needed. If full-time caregiving was required, you would not encounter single people that could function in society and you would never meet a child with both parents employed.
  - blueMist 12y ago
    Agree with the single people aspect, but a child whose parents are both employed is being cared by someone else. And unless the parents are well-off, that someone else is either not paid or badly paid.
Rapzid 12y ago

BertMan1678 12y ago

"An alternative point of view is that the Maker culture is basically arts and crafts for men ..." Yes ... because of course making is for boys and "arts and crafts" is for girls. [Sigh]