7 ms·

Make coders develop Blackberry apps, says firm's boss

32 points by percept 12y ago

codezero 12y ago
Previous discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8927539 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8927539
wglb 12y ago
So would their position be different if they were still the market leader?
x13 12y ago
forcing != free market
mijoharas 12y ago
If this weren't from bbc I would assume that someone had misquoted the onion as a proper news source again. This argument seems pretty preposterous.
kabdib 12y ago
Microsoft subsidized development of some popular apps for Windows Phone (e.g., Angry Birds). They paid for these. They were necessary to claw away at some market share. Chen seems to think he's entitled . . . and this is one reason why BlackBerry is utterly doomed. Now I wouldn't develop a BB app even if he paid me :-) But while we're at it, maybe we do need some regulation, so we can hold app developers at gunpoint (because that's what laws do, in the final argument) and force them to cough up the goods. In fact, I have an old Palm Pilot VII in a box somewhere that is being discriminated against and would be perfectly useful if only it had some apps... </snark>
- GrinningFool 12y ago
  They did subsidize a number of major apps that come over to BlackBerry.
  - kabdib 12y ago
    On the other hand, it's probably cheaper to buy a congressman or senator than it is to pay a developer to port an app.
    - declan 12y ago
      Exactly right. I noticed this many times when living in DC. There's even a study that puts numbers on the ROI for politician-purchasing: "In a recent study, researchers Raquel Alexander and Susan Scholz calculated the total amount the corporations saved from the lower tax rate. They compared the taxes saved to the amount the firms spent lobbying for the law. Their research showed the return on lobbying for those multinational corporations was 22,000 percent. That means for every dollar spent on lobbying, the companies got $220 in tax benefits." http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2012/01/06/144737864/forget-stocks-or-bonds-invest-in-a-lobbyist http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2012/01/06/144737864/forget-s...
      - droope 12y ago
        holy shit
  - noarchy 12y ago
    >They did subsidize a number of major apps that come over to BlackBerry. Subsidized, and even subsequently outsourced development to other companies, though I realize this isn't necessarily unusual. It just isn't made public.
fidotron 12y ago
Wow. Ignorant or wilfully stupid? We might as well argue that Blackberry be forced to run a common OS.
- kenrikm 12y ago
  Like Android.. haha. Seriously this is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read that was not a April Fools Joke.
kcole16 12y ago
I almost don't believe he actually feels that way, but is simply so desperate at this point that he'll try anything. It'll be interesting to see if this news affects investor sentiment.
ksk 12y ago
Wow, that's a horrible headline. Did anyone actually read the letter? His position is far less extreme. All hes essentially advocating for is open protocols so that popular services aren't locked down to a single platform. It's an interesting question whether government should mandate interoperability.
- declan 12y ago
  I did read the letter and his position is extreme: the BBC captured it accurately. Anytime you write a letter to Congress that includes the phrase "must be mandated" -- as Blackberry's CEO did -- it's abundantly clear you're asking for a new law. Now, I admit the question of whether or not this particular proposed law is extreme or not is a judgment call, but forcing programmers (at gunpoint?) to develop for other platforms seems a bit extreme to me. Also not a recipe for very good code. :)
- hvs 12y ago
  That's not what he says: Unlike BlackBerry, which allows iPhone users to download and use our BBM service, Apple does not allow BlackBerry or Android users to download Apple’s iMessage messaging service. Netflix, which has forcefully advocated for carrier neutrality, has discriminated against BlackBerry customers by refusing to make its streaming movie service available to them.
  - ksk 12y ago
    His phrasing is clumsy because hes not a programmer. The issue is that its rather "impossible" to create BB apps for some services because they're locked down. If NetFlix and Apple were to open the API, that would be enough for anyone (including BB employees) to create the app themselves. I don't think BB is so poor that they couldn't hire a few devs to get the apps written.
    - moeedm 12y ago
      Netflix and Apple don't have to open up anything if they don't want to. It's their service and ultimately they can choose which platforms to support. This is just whining from BlackBerry.
jpinkerton88 12y ago
WhatsApp only supporting Google Chrome for their web client is silly. Should they be allowed to look silly? Yes.
walkamages 12y ago
Developing on the BlackBerry 10 OS has actually been a pleasant experience, but that was for fun rather than profit, as the numbers do not add up in their store vs the rest of the market. Their android runtime is very good and most apps run well on it, with the confidence of a modicum more sandboxing than a native android phone. I think BlackBerry's only real hope now is to get the phone into the hands of people for little to no cost and hold developer events and contests. It will cost them to have a dev community, like Microsoft learnt, but without it, they will wither even more so.
wooyi 12y ago
What Mr. Chen claims as "discrimination" or non-net neutrality is not that at all. Net neutrality is not about making apps available for all platforms. On a side note, has anyone developed a BB app? Maybe he should start there first.
programminggeek 12y ago
Well, time to stop supporting BlackBerry.
pyre 12y ago
Seeing as it's a letter to Congress, maybe the phrase "Those who can't innovate, legislate" is apt...
cblock811 12y ago
Sorry but maybe Apple and Android don't care about BlackBerry because it's going under. Nobody wants to hang out with a loser and that's what they've become. His whining doesn't help. I'm sure turning around BlackBerry is a monumental task but I feel like he should be focused on innovating and leading and let his PR team do the writing for public statements.
jevinskie 12y ago
If someone was foolish enough to still own BBRY, I think this incident should be evidence enough to get out while you can. What an incredibly stupid thing for a CEO to say.
lxfontes 12y ago
I'm in favour of competition, but this sounds like "Music industry should be forced to release cassette tapes" BB was ahead of the curve, had its glory days, dropped the ball on not focusing on enterprise and now it is struggling to find its place. I do think we need a 3rd big player in this market (other than apple/google). Feels like innovation has became a battle of thinness / big screens.
- greggyb 12y ago
  Microsoft is a big player in terms of resources, though not market share (2%?) in smart phones. Based on their Windows 10 announcement yesterday, they are pushing universal device integration, which should help them in the enterprise market. If they deliver, what they'll have is a full stack of productivity, line-of-business, and analytics platforms through a unified UI for any device. Most enterprises already run Windows and if mobile/tablet integration is seamless with a Microsoft platform, that should be a large gain in market share. The two big questions are if they can deliver well on the promise, and if they can leverage enterprise adoption to increase their consumer market share.
cheezit 12y ago
lol, no.
nextw33k 12y ago
Initially my reaction was the same as the herd, however on reflection I see that he's trying to address a problem in the mobile space. Really the mobile phone market is currently a duopoly and that's bad for consumers. We are now getting past the initial innovation part of the curve and starting to see level growth in terms of the number of devices in the market place and platform changes. What we need to start thinking about is perhaps a standard on which Apps are built. Right now its like the 90s where you'd build a site for IE and one for Netscape.

32 points by percept 12y ago

codezero 12y ago

Previous discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8927539 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8927539

wglb 12y ago

So would their position be different if they were still the market leader?

x13 12y ago

forcing != free market

mijoharas 12y ago

If this weren't from bbc I would assume that someone had misquoted the onion as a proper news source again. This argument seems pretty preposterous.

kabdib 12y ago

Microsoft subsidized development of some popular apps for Windows Phone (e.g., Angry Birds). They paid for these. They were necessary to claw away at some market share. Chen seems to think he's entitled . . . and this is one reason why BlackBerry is utterly doomed. Now I wouldn't develop a BB app even if he paid me :-) But while we're at it, maybe we do need some regulation, so we can hold app developers at gunpoint (because that's what laws do, in the final argument) and force them to cough up the goods. In fact, I have an old Palm Pilot VII in a box somewhere that is being discriminated against and would be perfectly useful if only it had some apps... </snark>

GrinningFool 12y ago
They did subsidize a number of major apps that come over to BlackBerry.
- kabdib 12y ago
  On the other hand, it's probably cheaper to buy a congressman or senator than it is to pay a developer to port an app.
  - declan 12y ago
    Exactly right. I noticed this many times when living in DC. There's even a study that puts numbers on the ROI for politician-purchasing: "In a recent study, researchers Raquel Alexander and Susan Scholz calculated the total amount the corporations saved from the lower tax rate. They compared the taxes saved to the amount the firms spent lobbying for the law. Their research showed the return on lobbying for those multinational corporations was 22,000 percent. That means for every dollar spent on lobbying, the companies got $220 in tax benefits." http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2012/01/06/144737864/forget-stocks-or-bonds-invest-in-a-lobbyist http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2012/01/06/144737864/forget-s...
    - droope 12y ago
      holy shit
- noarchy 12y ago
  >They did subsidize a number of major apps that come over to BlackBerry. Subsidized, and even subsequently outsourced development to other companies, though I realize this isn't necessarily unusual. It just isn't made public.

fidotron 12y ago

Wow. Ignorant or wilfully stupid? We might as well argue that Blackberry be forced to run a common OS.

kenrikm 12y ago
Like Android.. haha. Seriously this is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read that was not a April Fools Joke.

kcole16 12y ago

I almost don't believe he actually feels that way, but is simply so desperate at this point that he'll try anything. It'll be interesting to see if this news affects investor sentiment.

ksk 12y ago

Wow, that's a horrible headline. Did anyone actually read the letter? His position is far less extreme. All hes essentially advocating for is open protocols so that popular services aren't locked down to a single platform. It's an interesting question whether government should mandate interoperability.

declan 12y ago
I did read the letter and his position is extreme: the BBC captured it accurately. Anytime you write a letter to Congress that includes the phrase "must be mandated" -- as Blackberry's CEO did -- it's abundantly clear you're asking for a new law. Now, I admit the question of whether or not this particular proposed law is extreme or not is a judgment call, but forcing programmers (at gunpoint?) to develop for other platforms seems a bit extreme to me. Also not a recipe for very good code. :)
hvs 12y ago
That's not what he says: Unlike BlackBerry, which allows iPhone users to download and use our BBM service, Apple does not allow BlackBerry or Android users to download Apple’s iMessage messaging service. Netflix, which has forcefully advocated for carrier neutrality, has discriminated against BlackBerry customers by refusing to make its streaming movie service available to them.
- ksk 12y ago
  His phrasing is clumsy because hes not a programmer. The issue is that its rather "impossible" to create BB apps for some services because they're locked down. If NetFlix and Apple were to open the API, that would be enough for anyone (including BB employees) to create the app themselves. I don't think BB is so poor that they couldn't hire a few devs to get the apps written.
  - moeedm 12y ago
    Netflix and Apple don't have to open up anything if they don't want to. It's their service and ultimately they can choose which platforms to support. This is just whining from BlackBerry.

jpinkerton88 12y ago

WhatsApp only supporting Google Chrome for their web client is silly. Should they be allowed to look silly? Yes.

walkamages 12y ago

Developing on the BlackBerry 10 OS has actually been a pleasant experience, but that was for fun rather than profit, as the numbers do not add up in their store vs the rest of the market. Their android runtime is very good and most apps run well on it, with the confidence of a modicum more sandboxing than a native android phone. I think BlackBerry's only real hope now is to get the phone into the hands of people for little to no cost and hold developer events and contests. It will cost them to have a dev community, like Microsoft learnt, but without it, they will wither even more so.

wooyi 12y ago

What Mr. Chen claims as "discrimination" or non-net neutrality is not that at all. Net neutrality is not about making apps available for all platforms. On a side note, has anyone developed a BB app? Maybe he should start there first.

programminggeek 12y ago

Well, time to stop supporting BlackBerry.

pyre 12y ago

Seeing as it's a letter to Congress, maybe the phrase "Those who can't innovate, legislate" is apt...

cblock811 12y ago

Sorry but maybe Apple and Android don't care about BlackBerry because it's going under. Nobody wants to hang out with a loser and that's what they've become. His whining doesn't help. I'm sure turning around BlackBerry is a monumental task but I feel like he should be focused on innovating and leading and let his PR team do the writing for public statements.

jevinskie 12y ago

If someone was foolish enough to still own BBRY, I think this incident should be evidence enough to get out while you can. What an incredibly stupid thing for a CEO to say.

lxfontes 12y ago

I'm in favour of competition, but this sounds like "Music industry should be forced to release cassette tapes" BB was ahead of the curve, had its glory days, dropped the ball on not focusing on enterprise and now it is struggling to find its place. I do think we need a 3rd big player in this market (other than apple/google). Feels like innovation has became a battle of thinness / big screens.

greggyb 12y ago
Microsoft is a big player in terms of resources, though not market share (2%?) in smart phones. Based on their Windows 10 announcement yesterday, they are pushing universal device integration, which should help them in the enterprise market. If they deliver, what they'll have is a full stack of productivity, line-of-business, and analytics platforms through a unified UI for any device. Most enterprises already run Windows and if mobile/tablet integration is seamless with a Microsoft platform, that should be a large gain in market share. The two big questions are if they can deliver well on the promise, and if they can leverage enterprise adoption to increase their consumer market share.

cheezit 12y ago

lol, no.

nextw33k 12y ago

Initially my reaction was the same as the herd, however on reflection I see that he's trying to address a problem in the mobile space. Really the mobile phone market is currently a duopoly and that's bad for consumers. We are now getting past the initial innovation part of the curve and starting to see level growth in terms of the number of devices in the market place and platform changes. What we need to start thinking about is perhaps a standard on which Apps are built. Right now its like the 90s where you'd build a site for IE and one for Netscape.