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Geez, his readers are downright hostile. Question: why so much hostility towards MBAs (especially from top schools) in non-MBA-heavy industries, but so much lo

Geez, his readers are downright hostile. Question: why so much hostility towards MBAs (especially from top schools) in non-MBA-heavy industries, but so much love for them in MBA-heavy industries? One would assume that industry has found them useful, as they continue to hire them. Bonus question: if you have a startup and someone applies for a job as a product manager and they have the right background, experience, passion, etc, would the fact that they got an MBA from Harvard or Stanford make you more or less likely to hire them?

dantheman 17y ago
I think it's because MBAs often make decisions that are unpopular -- this business unit isn't function profitably, we can shut it down and sell it's assets to focus on other priorities. Also, they do make a lot of money so people might not like that either.
hyperbovine 17y ago
I worked at Haas all through my undergrad and spent a lot of time in their labs as part of my job. Based on my scientific sampling method of eavesdropping on everyone within audible range, approximately 80% of the Haas MBA experience is devoted to figuring out who's driving to Tahoe. Another 10% is spent discussing professional sporting events (men) or men (women). And on rare occasions they got down to business and cranked out a PowerPoint or two. I remember feeling bewildered that these people were going to be making 10x as much as me in 2 years. This was long before I ever heard the term PHB, watched Office Space, or otherwise knew that I was supposed to hate MBAs. My point being: I came by my scorn organically.
- kqr2 17y ago
  From what I've heard, getting an MBA is more about networking (the social kind) than classroom knowledge. Consequently, going to a bar, driving to Tahoe, or just watercooler conversation is probably a good way to make contacts.
  - hyperbovine 17y ago
    True. Nevertheless it amazes me that you would pay $150,000 for that.
    - eru 17y ago
      People are prepared to pay so much because their classmates pay so much. High barriers to entry mean that you can network with people serious about it.
- pbhjpbhj 17y ago
  It's very rare that I genuinely laugh out loud at a comment here but I did for you. Thank me later. Loved it. Insightful too.
gchpaco 17y ago
MBAs are strongly associated with the theory that managers can "manage" competently with no domain knowledge whatsoever. This is unpopular conceptually with people who do have domain knowledge, and those folks can point to scads of examples of situations where a newly minted MBA decided he understood something important and fucked everything up. I think your "industry has found them useful" argument is undermined by the realization that MBAs tend to hire other MBAs, rather like a virus spreading.
- gaius 17y ago
  That's relatively recent thing. In the early days of the MBA, in the 1950s, the point of them was to teach real actual engineers the skills they would need to move up the organization (e.g. if you were a civil engineer who knew all about concrete, the MBA would teach you about the commercial aspects of dam construction so you could manage the whole project). The modern MBA is a rite of entry into a club and not much more.
  - ryanwaggoner 17y ago
    Yeah, I've heard this comment quite a few times on here before, but the MBA was created around the turn of the century, not in the 1950s, and it was created because more companies wanted a scientific approach to management, not to teach "real actual engineers" management skills.
- known 17y ago
  Engineers live in ideal world. MBAs live in real world.
  - philwelch 17y ago
    What does that even mean?
madair 17y ago
Less likely to hire. And the popularity of MBAs is because (a) that's where the pool of leaders tends to go for education (I said tends, people), but (b) it's also a self-reinforcing psuedo-class system. Look for correlations in the military and older class structures such as aristocracy & feudalism.
- madair 17y ago
  BTW, I've made this decision several times before, I'm not just guessing what I'd do.
- natrius 17y ago
  Care to explain that logic? It seems a bit unreasonable to me.
  - madair 17y ago
    For the less likely to hire, because I desire being a part of breaking down class barriers. For my belief that it's a pseudo-class structure, it's just based on the invisible lines drawn between management and workers in the corporations that I've worked.
    - nitrogen 17y ago
      In my previous jobs, there were visible lines drawn between management and workers, with different colors representing each. On a serious note, my first job I ever had was at a startup, as the ~25th employee. There was a culture of promotion, and people who started at the bottom eventually worked their way to the top. The most recent job I left before starting my own company, however, was a relatively large corporation (though I was in a very small division). There was relatively little promotion through the ranks, and a lot more direct hiring into management positions. Has anyone else observed such an inverse correlation between company size and the likelihood of promotion?
Retric 17y ago
Less. Edit: Things that help people jump ship, but don't help your company are a negative.
anamax 17y ago
> Bonus question: if you have a startup and someone applies for a job as a product manager Does a startup need a product manager? > would the fact that they got an MBA from Harvard or Stanford make you more or less likely to hire them? It sounds like you care whether we view an MBA as a plus or a minus. Why do you care?

dantheman 17y ago

I think it's because MBAs often make decisions that are unpopular -- this business unit isn't function profitably, we can shut it down and sell it's assets to focus on other priorities. Also, they do make a lot of money so people might not like that either.

hyperbovine 17y ago

I worked at Haas all through my undergrad and spent a lot of time in their labs as part of my job. Based on my scientific sampling method of eavesdropping on everyone within audible range, approximately 80% of the Haas MBA experience is devoted to figuring out who's driving to Tahoe. Another 10% is spent discussing professional sporting events (men) or men (women). And on rare occasions they got down to business and cranked out a PowerPoint or two. I remember feeling bewildered that these people were going to be making 10x as much as me in 2 years. This was long before I ever heard the term PHB, watched Office Space, or otherwise knew that I was supposed to hate MBAs. My point being: I came by my scorn organically.

kqr2 17y ago
From what I've heard, getting an MBA is more about networking (the social kind) than classroom knowledge. Consequently, going to a bar, driving to Tahoe, or just watercooler conversation is probably a good way to make contacts.
- hyperbovine 17y ago
  True. Nevertheless it amazes me that you would pay $150,000 for that.
  - eru 17y ago
    People are prepared to pay so much because their classmates pay so much. High barriers to entry mean that you can network with people serious about it.
pbhjpbhj 17y ago
It's very rare that I genuinely laugh out loud at a comment here but I did for you. Thank me later. Loved it. Insightful too.

gchpaco 17y ago

MBAs are strongly associated with the theory that managers can "manage" competently with no domain knowledge whatsoever. This is unpopular conceptually with people who do have domain knowledge, and those folks can point to scads of examples of situations where a newly minted MBA decided he understood something important and fucked everything up. I think your "industry has found them useful" argument is undermined by the realization that MBAs tend to hire other MBAs, rather like a virus spreading.

gaius 17y ago
That's relatively recent thing. In the early days of the MBA, in the 1950s, the point of them was to teach real actual engineers the skills they would need to move up the organization (e.g. if you were a civil engineer who knew all about concrete, the MBA would teach you about the commercial aspects of dam construction so you could manage the whole project). The modern MBA is a rite of entry into a club and not much more.
- ryanwaggoner 17y ago
  Yeah, I've heard this comment quite a few times on here before, but the MBA was created around the turn of the century, not in the 1950s, and it was created because more companies wanted a scientific approach to management, not to teach "real actual engineers" management skills.
known 17y ago
Engineers live in ideal world. MBAs live in real world.
- philwelch 17y ago
  What does that even mean?

madair 17y ago

Less likely to hire. And the popularity of MBAs is because (a) that's where the pool of leaders tends to go for education (I said tends, people), but (b) it's also a self-reinforcing psuedo-class system. Look for correlations in the military and older class structures such as aristocracy & feudalism.

madair 17y ago
BTW, I've made this decision several times before, I'm not just guessing what I'd do.
natrius 17y ago
Care to explain that logic? It seems a bit unreasonable to me.
- madair 17y ago
  For the less likely to hire, because I desire being a part of breaking down class barriers. For my belief that it's a pseudo-class structure, it's just based on the invisible lines drawn between management and workers in the corporations that I've worked.
  - nitrogen 17y ago
    In my previous jobs, there were visible lines drawn between management and workers, with different colors representing each. On a serious note, my first job I ever had was at a startup, as the ~25th employee. There was a culture of promotion, and people who started at the bottom eventually worked their way to the top. The most recent job I left before starting my own company, however, was a relatively large corporation (though I was in a very small division). There was relatively little promotion through the ranks, and a lot more direct hiring into management positions. Has anyone else observed such an inverse correlation between company size and the likelihood of promotion?

Retric 17y ago

Less. Edit: Things that help people jump ship, but don't help your company are a negative.

anamax 17y ago

> Bonus question: if you have a startup and someone applies for a job as a product manager Does a startup need a product manager? > would the fact that they got an MBA from Harvard or Stanford make you more or less likely to hire them? It sounds like you care whether we view an MBA as a plus or a minus. Why do you care?