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Nothing we believe about the outside world is unassailably justified by logic alone. Even the surest statements (that the sun will come up tomorrow, for example

by moss 17y ago

Nothing we believe about the outside world is unassailably justified by logic alone. Even the surest statements (that the sun will come up tomorrow, for example) are based on a fallible interpretation of the evidence available at the time. That's no reason to stop making statements--it turns out a preponderance of evidence is enough, generally. It just means some of your beliefs sometimes turn out to be wrong.

chrischen 17y ago
What about statements like 1*1 = 1. I can be sure about that, but unsure about something like the existence of God.
- pbhjpbhj 17y ago
  Your simple arithmetic is either a human definition or a part of a discovered system that we can't prove to be consistent and complete in itself.
  - chrischen 17y ago
    1*1=1, the statement itself is a human definition. And so my point is if we define the universe as the world we reside in, and we define God as an entity mutually exclusive of the universe, then based on this definition God cannot be disproven. Assuming I exist because I am writing this right now, then the universe must exist because I must reside in something (and whatever that is is the universe). Now then God, what we have defined to be what is exclusive of this universe, cannot be disproven because we are in the universe. Therefore you cannot disprove God and this is infinitely impossible, whereas proving that the sun will come up tomorrow is not certain to be infinitely impossible yet.
- moss 17y ago
  I meant to be excluding things like that when I said "about the outside world". But regardless of how you think of statements like that, there are all sorts of others: * The sun will come up tomorrow. * Nobody is plotting to have me killed. * The lamp next to my couch is on. * Accelerating beyond light speed is impossible. * People other than me exist. that can't be proven logically, but that it's still perfectly reasonable to be sure of. In practice, logical proof isn't a workable standard to look for in your beliefs.
  - chrischen 17y ago
    The sun will come up tomorrow. We are 99.99% certain of that, so therefore it's safe to assume it's correct. And it's statistically unlikely for the sun to not come up. But when making the claim that God does not exist, that claim itself is 100% certain to be uncertain. So it's safe to assume he does not exist if no evidence has shown he does exist, but we still must acknowledge the possibility of his existence just as you must still acknowledge the possibility, however minute, that the sun will not come up tomorrow.

by moss 17y ago

chrischen 17y ago

What about statements like 1*1 = 1. I can be sure about that, but unsure about something like the existence of God.

pbhjpbhj 17y ago
Your simple arithmetic is either a human definition or a part of a discovered system that we can't prove to be consistent and complete in itself.
- chrischen 17y ago
  1*1=1, the statement itself is a human definition. And so my point is if we define the universe as the world we reside in, and we define God as an entity mutually exclusive of the universe, then based on this definition God cannot be disproven. Assuming I exist because I am writing this right now, then the universe must exist because I must reside in something (and whatever that is is the universe). Now then God, what we have defined to be what is exclusive of this universe, cannot be disproven because we are in the universe. Therefore you cannot disprove God and this is infinitely impossible, whereas proving that the sun will come up tomorrow is not certain to be infinitely impossible yet.
moss 17y ago
I meant to be excluding things like that when I said "about the outside world". But regardless of how you think of statements like that, there are all sorts of others: * The sun will come up tomorrow. * Nobody is plotting to have me killed. * The lamp next to my couch is on. * Accelerating beyond light speed is impossible. * People other than me exist. that can't be proven logically, but that it's still perfectly reasonable to be sure of. In practice, logical proof isn't a workable standard to look for in your beliefs.
- chrischen 17y ago
  The sun will come up tomorrow. We are 99.99% certain of that, so therefore it's safe to assume it's correct. And it's statistically unlikely for the sun to not come up. But when making the claim that God does not exist, that claim itself is 100% certain to be uncertain. So it's safe to assume he does not exist if no evidence has shown he does exist, but we still must acknowledge the possibility of his existence just as you must still acknowledge the possibility, however minute, that the sun will not come up tomorrow.