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I'm constantly tempted to jump head first into the fight to help fix the giant living machine we've been slowly breaking for decades. I've got notes scribbled

by brd 12y ago

I'm constantly tempted to jump head first into the fight to help fix the giant living machine we've been slowly breaking for decades. I've got notes scribbled down on a better dietary framework, on creating incentive systems for farmers, on improving distribution to consumers. There are so many different areas of the problem to tackle that its a little overwhelming to know where to start or how best to get involved. I'm genuinely saddened to know how far removed I am from the food I eat and the fact that helping seems so far-fetched just makes me all the more distraught.

searine 12y ago
>to help fix the giant living machine we've been slowly breaking for decades. It is a fallacy to assume that the machine was ever working properly.
- brd 12y ago
  I'd agree, I wasn't trying to imply we need to reach some unfounded past equilibrium. However, it's fair to say we've not made things better ecologically speaking but luckily we have the cognizance and ability to improve things if we can figure out the economic incentives to do so. I don't think anyone would argue that in the long run we humans would be better off managing our ecosystem a bit more rationally than our current haphazard approach.
bjelkeman-again 12y ago
I think the important thing is to just start, somewhere, anywhere. I got really frustrated with the IT Industry I was working in and left it to work on sustainable food production. Which I did end up doing for a bit. I got derailed, am now back in IT, but, the tools I now work on are used more and more in food security work for the poorest. What I have seen though is that the startup process we learn in IT projects. Build something iteratively, with a lean startup approach goes a very long way in many business areas. You have skills that few in business posess. Use them and do something good. I did. You can too.
Tossrock 12y ago
The only reasonable answer I can think of is to start spending more on food. Either we start doing it now by supporting sustainable agriculture practices - local farms, foods treated without pesticides, etc, or we'll do it later when the whole engine grinds to a halt. I've noticed a trend among practical/engineering minded people to dismiss organic foods as wa-wa nonsense, but buying them over slightly cheaper, industrially farmed alternatives is actually one of the best things you can do as a consumer to help the situation. "Organic" as a term is USDA certified and includes things like not using pesticides/antibiotics, including buffer zones around farms to prevent runoff, etc. The ongoing shift is driven by market forces; people want more food, cheaper, and so industrial agriculture adapts to the market, producing huge volumes of monocultured crops with all the tenuous methods described in the article. The only way to reverse the trend is to change the market - by a conscious decision on the part of consumers to spend more than the absolute minimum possible, for food that is better on every level - environmentally, nutritionally, and subjectively (seriously, pasture raised eggs are delicious).
- brd 12y ago
  For the conscientious observer I think this is the best approach to take. I lived in VT for a while where it was very easy to support local, organic farms and where I am now I frequent the small organic food shop for my needs. For those of us fortunate enough to be able to afford to spend a bit more on food, I think its a wonderful means of helping move the needle in the right direction. For me personally, its just nowhere near enough. I've gone so far as offering to invest in farm land for friends who were interested in trying out sustainable farming practices (they ended up not finding land convenient enough and moved on to other endeavors) .
- slavik81 12y ago
  > "Organic" as a term is USDA certified and includes things like not using pesticides That's not true. Organic foods are prohibited from being grown with synthetic pesticides, but non-synthetics are allowable.
- scott_s 12y ago
  The supposed health benefits of organic is wa-wa nonsense. Multiple studies have showed no health benefits. And as slavik81 points out, "organic" farming is allowed to use pesticides, just not synthetic pesticides. But I'm unaware of the impact of the other provisions, such as buffer zones and crop rotations. Are you aware of any studies which look into their impact?
randomdata 12y ago
Your last paragraph really stands out to me. I think we, as farmers, often feel that the larger population do not care about what we actually do. At best it seems like they only take in the easily digestible "Food, Inc." kind of information that carries an agenda and misses a lot of the realities of the business. There is a vast knowledge barrier to overcome. I've been farming for about eight years now and still feel like a newbie, and feel even more clueless outside of my specific niche of grains. I sometimes can feel disconnected, and I'm right there in the middle of it. I imagine trying to approach the topic of where your food comes from is like a non-technical person trying to be part of where their Google search results come from. Even to technically-minded people there can be a certain level of 'voodoo' going on there. So, I guess the question in my mind from this is: How can we make the topic of food more approachable? It is not for lack of trying. There are many organizations and individual farmers who have made it their mission to get the information out there. Thoughts from your side of the table?
- brd 12y ago
  I think there's been a general trend towards people giving a shit about their food. You see it in the diet trends, you see it in the tone of food shows, you see it in the farm to table movement, so I'd say its already well on its way. I think one of the trickier parts is that people, in general, don't consume much in the way of real information, everyone is overloaded with headlines and pop culture. I'm amazed at how few people I know who actually read and the list shrinks considerably when its narrowed to non-fiction. I think food shows like Mind of a Chef are probably the best current medium for informing people. I could see podcasts working well. Whatever the approach, it unfortunately has to be easily digestible and relatively light-hearted. My angst is more that I want to be an active participant rather than just an informed consumer. I see the trend happening but I also know how easily the trend can be perverted (i.e. the whole foods effect of ruining otherwise amazing farming practices in order to reach scale) which reinforces my want to really push the envelope. Please reach out to me (email in profile) if you'd like to discuss this more in depth. I love speaking to people involved in the Ag scene and if I ever do jump in I'll need people I can vet ideas with.

by brd 12y ago

searine 12y ago

>to help fix the giant living machine we've been slowly breaking for decades. It is a fallacy to assume that the machine was ever working properly.

brd 12y ago
I'd agree, I wasn't trying to imply we need to reach some unfounded past equilibrium. However, it's fair to say we've not made things better ecologically speaking but luckily we have the cognizance and ability to improve things if we can figure out the economic incentives to do so. I don't think anyone would argue that in the long run we humans would be better off managing our ecosystem a bit more rationally than our current haphazard approach.

bjelkeman-again 12y ago

I think the important thing is to just start, somewhere, anywhere. I got really frustrated with the IT Industry I was working in and left it to work on sustainable food production. Which I did end up doing for a bit. I got derailed, am now back in IT, but, the tools I now work on are used more and more in food security work for the poorest. What I have seen though is that the startup process we learn in IT projects. Build something iteratively, with a lean startup approach goes a very long way in many business areas. You have skills that few in business posess. Use them and do something good. I did. You can too.

Tossrock 12y ago

The only reasonable answer I can think of is to start spending more on food. Either we start doing it now by supporting sustainable agriculture practices - local farms, foods treated without pesticides, etc, or we'll do it later when the whole engine grinds to a halt. I've noticed a trend among practical/engineering minded people to dismiss organic foods as wa-wa nonsense, but buying them over slightly cheaper, industrially farmed alternatives is actually one of the best things you can do as a consumer to help the situation. "Organic" as a term is USDA certified and includes things like not using pesticides/antibiotics, including buffer zones around farms to prevent runoff, etc. The ongoing shift is driven by market forces; people want more food, cheaper, and so industrial agriculture adapts to the market, producing huge volumes of monocultured crops with all the tenuous methods described in the article. The only way to reverse the trend is to change the market - by a conscious decision on the part of consumers to spend more than the absolute minimum possible, for food that is better on every level - environmentally, nutritionally, and subjectively (seriously, pasture raised eggs are delicious).

brd 12y ago
For the conscientious observer I think this is the best approach to take. I lived in VT for a while where it was very easy to support local, organic farms and where I am now I frequent the small organic food shop for my needs. For those of us fortunate enough to be able to afford to spend a bit more on food, I think its a wonderful means of helping move the needle in the right direction. For me personally, its just nowhere near enough. I've gone so far as offering to invest in farm land for friends who were interested in trying out sustainable farming practices (they ended up not finding land convenient enough and moved on to other endeavors) .
slavik81 12y ago
> "Organic" as a term is USDA certified and includes things like not using pesticides That's not true. Organic foods are prohibited from being grown with synthetic pesticides, but non-synthetics are allowable.
scott_s 12y ago
The supposed health benefits of organic is wa-wa nonsense. Multiple studies have showed no health benefits. And as slavik81 points out, "organic" farming is allowed to use pesticides, just not synthetic pesticides. But I'm unaware of the impact of the other provisions, such as buffer zones and crop rotations. Are you aware of any studies which look into their impact?

randomdata 12y ago

Your last paragraph really stands out to me. I think we, as farmers, often feel that the larger population do not care about what we actually do. At best it seems like they only take in the easily digestible "Food, Inc." kind of information that carries an agenda and misses a lot of the realities of the business. There is a vast knowledge barrier to overcome. I've been farming for about eight years now and still feel like a newbie, and feel even more clueless outside of my specific niche of grains. I sometimes can feel disconnected, and I'm right there in the middle of it. I imagine trying to approach the topic of where your food comes from is like a non-technical person trying to be part of where their Google search results come from. Even to technically-minded people there can be a certain level of 'voodoo' going on there. So, I guess the question in my mind from this is: How can we make the topic of food more approachable? It is not for lack of trying. There are many organizations and individual farmers who have made it their mission to get the information out there. Thoughts from your side of the table?

brd 12y ago
I think there's been a general trend towards people giving a shit about their food. You see it in the diet trends, you see it in the tone of food shows, you see it in the farm to table movement, so I'd say its already well on its way. I think one of the trickier parts is that people, in general, don't consume much in the way of real information, everyone is overloaded with headlines and pop culture. I'm amazed at how few people I know who actually read and the list shrinks considerably when its narrowed to non-fiction. I think food shows like Mind of a Chef are probably the best current medium for informing people. I could see podcasts working well. Whatever the approach, it unfortunately has to be easily digestible and relatively light-hearted. My angst is more that I want to be an active participant rather than just an informed consumer. I see the trend happening but I also know how easily the trend can be perverted (i.e. the whole foods effect of ruining otherwise amazing farming practices in order to reach scale) which reinforces my want to really push the envelope. Please reach out to me (email in profile) if you'd like to discuss this more in depth. I love speaking to people involved in the Ag scene and if I ever do jump in I'll need people I can vet ideas with.