4 ms·

I've always thought so, and I figure it is a case of our sue-happy culture and a cover your ass tactic "anything you say can and will be used against you" kind

by sosuke 12y ago

I've always thought so, and I figure it is a case of our sue-happy culture and a cover your ass tactic "anything you say can and will be used against you" kind of fear. I'd love to have reached out to some applicants in the past to offer help, but what if they don't want any?

tacostakohashi 12y ago
It would be nice if, at the start of the application process, companies could ask you if you would like to agree not to sue them in exchange for open, honest feedback, e.g. notes from your interviewers. Sometimes its pretty clear if you are not a good match, but sometimes its really not, and it seems like it would be best for both parties if certain kind of feedback could be provided, e.g. you were close, please consider applying in a year or two with some more experience, or we have decided not to hire anybody due to a later hiring freeze, but otherwise we would hire you - or, you are a unlikely to ever work in this industry, don't waste anybody's time with further applications (maybe some suggestions for better fits). In general, more information leads to more efficient markets benefits all participants.
- dustingetz 12y ago
  in my experience, if one understands and explicitly acknowledges their reasoning for not giving feedback, one can connect with their interviewers directly as a human and receive frank feedback. One just has to make it clear that they are not a risk.
  - halflings 12y ago
    Yeah, good luck with that. I've already had some extremely surprising interview results and tried really hard to get feedback from the recruiters. They would just keep repeating the same words: "Our policy is to refrain from giving feedback to the interviewees."
- computerjunkie 12y ago
  It would be nice if, at the start of the application process, companies could ask you if you would like to agree not to sue them in exchange for open, honest feedback, e.g. notes from your interviewers. This. I would gladly tick the check box for some honest feedback. I personally think that leaving candidates with a generic response is unprofessional and says plenty about the company.
- JeremyMorgan 12y ago
  I would check that box in a heartbeat, as would 99% of people. But good luck getting your legal department to allow that, they would likely see it as an unnecessary legal risk.
- lhc- 12y ago
  The problem is that, if their feedback is "you were a woman so we didn't hire you", then signing away your right to sue is a big problem. And you can't really know if their reason is legit or not until you sign.
- pyoung 12y ago
  While I agree that feedback would be nice, I also think that if you objectively evaluate the application/interview engagement, you can narrow down the reasons for rejection. And after a few interviews you can start seeing what the patterns are and make adjustments accordingly. I think it is much more informative to try and get honest feedback on your resume, application process, and interviewing skills from friends and acquaintances. Pass your resume around to friends who work in HR and ask for feedback. Do a practice interview or two with someone who works in a similar job to what you are applying for. It's also worth keeping in mind that the process for many companies is very random. At my old company, I have recommended a few very qualified candidates, only for their application to get stuck in HR limbo due to budgets or politics. And on the other side of that, every now and then we would open the floodgates, and any one with a pulse would get in. It was really frustrating, but that's just how it works.
- sgustard 12y ago
  I believe one of your legal rights is you can't be compelled to sign away your legal rights in exchange for something like a chance at employment.
  - tacostakohashi 12y ago
    The idea would be that its optional, and the company would still treat candidates choosing either optional equally during the hiring process - it would not be a condition of applying. So, you aren't signing away your legal rights in exchange for a chance at the job, you get that either way. You are agreeing not to exercise some legal rights in exchange for feedback, not in exchange for your application to be considered.
    - edsrzf 12y ago
      If you're agreeing not to sue, then the company can use any criteria they like to hire or not hire you and there are zero consequences. Imagine you check the box, you don't get the job, and your feedback turns out to be "You're a man and we don't like to hire men." You have no recourse because you agreed not to sue. You can argue that that's obviously illegal hiring criteria and you should be able to sue anyway, but then you're back to square one.
- UrMomReadsHN 12y ago
  You can't sign away your legal rights like that.

by sosuke 12y ago

tacostakohashi 12y ago

It would be nice if, at the start of the application process, companies could ask you if you would like to agree not to sue them in exchange for open, honest feedback, e.g. notes from your interviewers. Sometimes its pretty clear if you are not a good match, but sometimes its really not, and it seems like it would be best for both parties if certain kind of feedback could be provided, e.g. you were close, please consider applying in a year or two with some more experience, or we have decided not to hire anybody due to a later hiring freeze, but otherwise we would hire you - or, you are a unlikely to ever work in this industry, don't waste anybody's time with further applications (maybe some suggestions for better fits). In general, more information leads to more efficient markets benefits all participants.

dustingetz 12y ago
in my experience, if one understands and explicitly acknowledges their reasoning for not giving feedback, one can connect with their interviewers directly as a human and receive frank feedback. One just has to make it clear that they are not a risk.
- halflings 12y ago
  Yeah, good luck with that. I've already had some extremely surprising interview results and tried really hard to get feedback from the recruiters. They would just keep repeating the same words: "Our policy is to refrain from giving feedback to the interviewees."
computerjunkie 12y ago
It would be nice if, at the start of the application process, companies could ask you if you would like to agree not to sue them in exchange for open, honest feedback, e.g. notes from your interviewers. This. I would gladly tick the check box for some honest feedback. I personally think that leaving candidates with a generic response is unprofessional and says plenty about the company.
JeremyMorgan 12y ago
I would check that box in a heartbeat, as would 99% of people. But good luck getting your legal department to allow that, they would likely see it as an unnecessary legal risk.
lhc- 12y ago
The problem is that, if their feedback is "you were a woman so we didn't hire you", then signing away your right to sue is a big problem. And you can't really know if their reason is legit or not until you sign.
pyoung 12y ago
While I agree that feedback would be nice, I also think that if you objectively evaluate the application/interview engagement, you can narrow down the reasons for rejection. And after a few interviews you can start seeing what the patterns are and make adjustments accordingly. I think it is much more informative to try and get honest feedback on your resume, application process, and interviewing skills from friends and acquaintances. Pass your resume around to friends who work in HR and ask for feedback. Do a practice interview or two with someone who works in a similar job to what you are applying for. It's also worth keeping in mind that the process for many companies is very random. At my old company, I have recommended a few very qualified candidates, only for their application to get stuck in HR limbo due to budgets or politics. And on the other side of that, every now and then we would open the floodgates, and any one with a pulse would get in. It was really frustrating, but that's just how it works.
sgustard 12y ago
I believe one of your legal rights is you can't be compelled to sign away your legal rights in exchange for something like a chance at employment.
- tacostakohashi 12y ago
  The idea would be that its optional, and the company would still treat candidates choosing either optional equally during the hiring process - it would not be a condition of applying. So, you aren't signing away your legal rights in exchange for a chance at the job, you get that either way. You are agreeing not to exercise some legal rights in exchange for feedback, not in exchange for your application to be considered.
  - edsrzf 12y ago
    If you're agreeing not to sue, then the company can use any criteria they like to hire or not hire you and there are zero consequences. Imagine you check the box, you don't get the job, and your feedback turns out to be "You're a man and we don't like to hire men." You have no recourse because you agreed not to sue. You can argue that that's obviously illegal hiring criteria and you should be able to sue anyway, but then you're back to square one.
UrMomReadsHN 12y ago
You can't sign away your legal rights like that.