11 ms·

Super-insulated clothing could eliminate need for indoor heating

49 points by twsted 12y ago

clumsysmurf 12y ago
I am skeptical. "Mylar blankets, which are made of aluminum and plastic, are extremely warm but are not vapor-permeable, causing moisture to accumulate on a person's skin." Mylar may reflect some heat back, but the loss of heat from the system often negates this. Insulation is still needed. You can see this yourself - go out on a chilly day in shorts / t-shirt, wrap up in a mylar blanket, and you will be cold. Columbia has been adding something similar to their clothing, from baselayers to outerwear: http://www.columbia.com/technology-omniheatreflective/ http://www.columbia.com/technology-omniheatreflective/ The idea being, the silver dots will reflect heat, but the gap between them will allow moisture management. I'm not sure how well it works in all scenarios but I'm sure I couldn't turn my heat off in the home and be comfortable with an omni-heat baselayer. As for the Ag nanowires, i would worry these would become airborn and inhaled as the fabric breaks down from washing, use, etc.
- quickpost 12y ago
  I have a pair of those omni-reflective gloves - they work really quite well for any kind of outdoor exercise in the winter (cycling, hiking, etc.). If you're body is sweaty and warm they warm up quick and stay fairly dry.
  - freshyill 12y ago
    I've got a pair too but I hadn't given that silver any thought at all until I just read the parent comment. Do you find them much better than any other pair of gloves? I generally don't wear them to work, but maybe I'll give them a shot tomorrow. The problem with any gloves, even these, is that they separate your fingers and increase surface area, making it a lot easier to lose heat. Mittens are the solution to that, but the problem with mittens is that you lose dexterity and look stupid.
- swamp40 12y ago
  I have this Columbia Omniheat jacket: http://www.columbia.com/mens-heat-mode-ii-softshell-jacket---tall-1555943.html?cgid=technology-omniHeatReflective&dwvar_1555943_variationColor=010 http://www.columbia.com/mens-heat-mode-ii-softshell-jacket--... I live in the Chicago suburbs. The jacket is only good to about 32°F, and not good at all with cold winds. I was hoping the reflective coating would help, but I don't notice it helping at all. Definitely no more than a 5% improvement. My Carhartt jacket (1000 Denier Cordura Plus Nylon) is much better for wintertime. It seems like stopping the outside wind from getting in does a lot more to help you stay warm than does reflecting your body heat. But maybe put the lining inside the Carhartt jacket to get the best of both worlds?
- ryanlchan 12y ago
  A similar application was to use aerogels, which are highly insulating but not reflective, as clothing insulation. I recall a number of companies have explored this in the past [1]. The issue with aeogels appears to be two-fold: firstly, they are relatively expensive to manufacture, but secondly, the resulting garments are often too warm! [1] http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-gear/clothing-apparel/Holey-Smoke.html http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-gear/clothing-apparel/H...
hammock 12y ago
"Eliminate the need for indoor heating" seems like a goofy application of what is really just a new type of breathable insulated fabric. You will still want the objects you interact with barehanded to be at room temperature; and many building elements and appliances are designed to be operated within a regulated temperature range, e.g. plumbing. On the other hand, depending on the weight and breathability of the fabric, it could see use in the outdoors community for hikers, backpackers, climbers, etc.
- Ygg2 12y ago
  Agreed. The invention seems solid, but gods, I do not want to handle everything with mittens. Maybe this is how we get room temperature super conductors. Move to Antarctica and wear this.
  - Shivetya 12y ago
    well what about space applications, or any other place with very controlled or strenuous to maintain conditions? Does it preclude mittens made of the same material, full body suits and the like? Also, why do people keep looking up when we got a whole world under us?
    - colechristensen 12y ago
      In manned space enclosures, getting rid of heat is usually more of a problem than producing it.
    - Ygg2 12y ago
      Not applicable. I dunno if you ever looked at thermos bottles, but they use a layer of vacuum to insulate the liquid. But I agree, there is no telling where your invention may be used. If method of bottle opening can be used to extract babies[1], who knows what this invention can be used for. [1]http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/14/health/new-tool-to-ease-difficult-births-a-plastic-bag.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/14/health/new-tool-to-ease-di... .
- Semiapies 12y ago
larrywright 12y ago
Given that it's -9F out where I am right now, I'm very skeptical.
abakker 12y ago
I agree with the comments below, both on not wanting the inside of a house to be cold, and being worried that the degradation of nanowires would prove in some way to be catastrophic to either human health or the environment or both. Even the breakdown of synthetic fabrics is causing environmental damage that is poorly understood right now. Silver could prove even more problematic to certain life forms. That said, I'm not sure why this wouldn't just be used in the the insulation of a house directly? If we could drastically improve the insulation of a house without causing a major vapor retention problem, that would do wonders. Of course, glass is a major problem with good insulation, but I wonder if this material could be made into a partially transparent insulating layer that could be applied to glass temporarily?
- TomatoTomato 12y ago
  I wonder if the reflective properties make it unsuitable for 4-season home insulation. During the summer months wouldn't that keep too much heat inside?
  - mattdotc 12y ago
    Perhaps a home of the future might have the ability to roll the sheet up or down like window blinds inside the wall depending on the outside environment to self regulate.
  - Retric 12y ago
    AC means you’re keeping heat out in the summer. A well-insulated house is cheaper to heat in the winter and cool in the summer. Traditional housing in warm climates focused on removing heat from homes but fans take take little energy to move lots of air so that's not a major issue in a modern home. The real gains come from managing solar heat gain. A fairly small solar hot water heater can keep a well insulated house warm in most of the world, other options include things like a solar porch etc. External shade can also drasticaly reduce heat gain in the summer. Pushing past that and using things like ground source heating can also work, but they rarely pay off.
TomatoTomato 12y ago
It would be awesome to have lightweight, super reflective materials for socks, gloves, jackets, and base layers. But, eliminating indoor heating is clearly ridiculous. Although, reducing the thermostat several degrees while remaining comfortable is certainly a reachable goal.
stonogo 12y ago
The headline should be "These scientists apparently do not live in a house with toilet seats"
- themgt 12y ago
  Waking up in the morning, shivering cold, and needing to sit down on a toilet seat that was about 0°C for a very, very necessary bowel movement, was probably one of the least pleasant experiences in my life so far.
  - zaroth 12y ago
    I'd say you're doing pretty well then ;-) but point taken.
- leepowers 12y ago
  Well, you could have certain "warm rooms" in your house that are heated normally. Heating bathroom(s) is significantly less area and cost than heating a whole house.
  - stonogo 12y ago
    I guess they shouldn't have used the phrase "eliminate need for indoor heating" in the title then.
- seanmcdirmid 12y ago
  Japan is indoor heating deficient...why do you think they invented heated toilet seats and the kotatsu!
- sscotth 12y ago
  No problem: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B008Q6EN1C http://www.amazon.com/dp/B008Q6EN1C
lafar6502 12y ago
why they don't wrap a house in this fabric instead?
stefanix 12y ago
Warm clothing has been solved a long time ago. This is not the critical point why houses are heated.
TYPE_FASTER 12y ago
It's really hard to type with cold hands. http://www.usbgeek.com/products/usb-heating-gloves http://www.usbgeek.com/products/usb-heating-gloves
- nogridbag 12y ago
  Have you used these? Seems like it would be annoying to be plugged into USB while I type (especially since I have no more USB ports available!). I use fingerless gloves and a mini personal heater occasionally in the office when it gets cold. My coworkers find it a bit strange, but I like to program in comfort.
roberthahn 12y ago
Wouldn't it make more sense to design houses that are significantly cheaper to heat but are still breathable? Could this material help in the design of such homes? A lot of people talk about frozen plumbing, but food, plants and pets are also a consideration. I don't know about you, but I sure as heck am not going to dress my cats. If it must be clothing, then I can definitely see the appeal of spring-weight clothes that keep you warm in the winter. I would love to wear something like that.
- analog31 12y ago
  >>> Wouldn't it make more sense to design houses that are significantly cheaper to heat but are still breathable? Homes have a lot more surface area, so the power required to keep them heated is higher, given similar insulation, etc. On the other hand, house insulation can be thicker and lower tech. Stopping short of eliminating home heating altogether, it can make sense to improve the insulation of a home, turning down the thermostat, and putting on an extra layer or two of clothing. Everybody in my house is wearing a sweater right now. Naturally, reducing the exposed surface area by making houses smaller or attaching them together (i.e., apartment buildings), could make them cheaper to heat too.
nakedAtAllTimes 12y ago
I don't wear clothes when I'm indoors.
mikelyons 12y ago
Who the hell wants to see their breath indoors?
sippeangelo 12y ago
Super-insulated houses could eliminate need for indoor clothing AND heating!
matdrewin 12y ago
Heating helps fight humidity in Winter which in turn prevents mold.
ninguem2 12y ago
I was surprised by this bit: 47% of global energy is spent on indoor heating, and 42% of that specifically for residential heating. Seems like a lot to me. A cynic may say that, if that's true, then global warming would be self-correcting since, as the world heats up, fewer people will need heating.
- maxerickson 12y ago
  It's not true. According to the EIA, 11% of global energy consumption went to residential uses in 2007: http://www.eia.gov/forecasts/archive/ieo07/enduse.html http://www.eia.gov/forecasts/archive/ieo07/enduse.html So it would be difficult for residential heating to be more than 10% of total consumption.
- gwern 12y ago
  If you google the stat, it seems to be a little more plausible: 47% for heating and cooling. it is not obvious that global warming would be a net savings of energy: much of the world is already very warm and relies heavily on air conditioning.
  - maxerickson 12y ago
    The only plausible way to reach 47% is for "building energy consumption". So excluding things like industry and transport.
molsongolden 12y ago
I wonder how expensive this might be to incorporate into lightweight outerwear. If it really remains breathable enough for use in high output activity then I could see this being useful in high-end mountaineering, alpinism, and ice climbing apparel/gear especially gloves, boots, and hard shell outerwear.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
pvaldes 12y ago
I find a little disturbing the idea of having silver in contact with your skin 24h/7days/3-6months each year for many years: http://www.rosemaryjacobs.com/ http://www.rosemaryjacobs.com/ http://health.howstuffworks.com/skin-care/problems/medical/colloidal-silver-blue-skin.htm http://health.howstuffworks.com/skin-care/problems/medical/c...

49 points by twsted 12y ago

I am skeptical. "Mylar blankets, which are made of aluminum and plastic, are extremely warm but are not vapor-permeable, causing moisture to accumulate on a person's skin." Mylar may reflect some heat back, but the loss of heat from the system often negates this. Insulation is still needed. You can see this yourself - go out on a chilly day in shorts / t-shirt, wrap up in a mylar blanket, and you will be cold. Columbia has been adding something similar to their clothing, from baselayers to outerwear: http://www.columbia.com/technology-omniheatreflective/ http://www.columbia.com/technology-omniheatreflective/ The idea being, the silver dots will reflect heat, but the gap between them will allow moisture management. I'm not sure how well it works in all scenarios but I'm sure I couldn't turn my heat off in the home and be comfortable with an omni-heat baselayer. As for the Ag nanowires, i would worry these would become airborn and inhaled as the fabric breaks down from washing, use, etc.

quickpost 12y ago
I have a pair of those omni-reflective gloves - they work really quite well for any kind of outdoor exercise in the winter (cycling, hiking, etc.). If you're body is sweaty and warm they warm up quick and stay fairly dry.
- freshyill 12y ago
  I've got a pair too but I hadn't given that silver any thought at all until I just read the parent comment. Do you find them much better than any other pair of gloves? I generally don't wear them to work, but maybe I'll give them a shot tomorrow. The problem with any gloves, even these, is that they separate your fingers and increase surface area, making it a lot easier to lose heat. Mittens are the solution to that, but the problem with mittens is that you lose dexterity and look stupid.
swamp40 12y ago
I have this Columbia Omniheat jacket: http://www.columbia.com/mens-heat-mode-ii-softshell-jacket---tall-1555943.html?cgid=technology-omniHeatReflective&dwvar_1555943_variationColor=010 http://www.columbia.com/mens-heat-mode-ii-softshell-jacket--... I live in the Chicago suburbs. The jacket is only good to about 32°F, and not good at all with cold winds. I was hoping the reflective coating would help, but I don't notice it helping at all. Definitely no more than a 5% improvement. My Carhartt jacket (1000 Denier Cordura Plus Nylon) is much better for wintertime. It seems like stopping the outside wind from getting in does a lot more to help you stay warm than does reflecting your body heat. But maybe put the lining inside the Carhartt jacket to get the best of both worlds?
ryanlchan 12y ago
A similar application was to use aerogels, which are highly insulating but not reflective, as clothing insulation. I recall a number of companies have explored this in the past [1]. The issue with aeogels appears to be two-fold: firstly, they are relatively expensive to manufacture, but secondly, the resulting garments are often too warm! [1] http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-gear/clothing-apparel/Holey-Smoke.html http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-gear/clothing-apparel/H...

hammock 12y ago

"Eliminate the need for indoor heating" seems like a goofy application of what is really just a new type of breathable insulated fabric. You will still want the objects you interact with barehanded to be at room temperature; and many building elements and appliances are designed to be operated within a regulated temperature range, e.g. plumbing. On the other hand, depending on the weight and breathability of the fabric, it could see use in the outdoors community for hikers, backpackers, climbers, etc.

Ygg2 12y ago
Agreed. The invention seems solid, but gods, I do not want to handle everything with mittens. Maybe this is how we get room temperature super conductors. Move to Antarctica and wear this.
- Shivetya 12y ago
  well what about space applications, or any other place with very controlled or strenuous to maintain conditions? Does it preclude mittens made of the same material, full body suits and the like? Also, why do people keep looking up when we got a whole world under us?
  - colechristensen 12y ago
    In manned space enclosures, getting rid of heat is usually more of a problem than producing it.
  - Ygg2 12y ago
    Not applicable. I dunno if you ever looked at thermos bottles, but they use a layer of vacuum to insulate the liquid. But I agree, there is no telling where your invention may be used. If method of bottle opening can be used to extract babies[1], who knows what this invention can be used for. [1]http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/14/health/new-tool-to-ease-difficult-births-a-plastic-bag.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/14/health/new-tool-to-ease-di... .
Semiapies 12y ago

larrywright 12y ago

Given that it's -9F out where I am right now, I'm very skeptical.

abakker 12y ago

I agree with the comments below, both on not wanting the inside of a house to be cold, and being worried that the degradation of nanowires would prove in some way to be catastrophic to either human health or the environment or both. Even the breakdown of synthetic fabrics is causing environmental damage that is poorly understood right now. Silver could prove even more problematic to certain life forms. That said, I'm not sure why this wouldn't just be used in the the insulation of a house directly? If we could drastically improve the insulation of a house without causing a major vapor retention problem, that would do wonders. Of course, glass is a major problem with good insulation, but I wonder if this material could be made into a partially transparent insulating layer that could be applied to glass temporarily?

TomatoTomato 12y ago
I wonder if the reflective properties make it unsuitable for 4-season home insulation. During the summer months wouldn't that keep too much heat inside?
- mattdotc 12y ago
  Perhaps a home of the future might have the ability to roll the sheet up or down like window blinds inside the wall depending on the outside environment to self regulate.
- Retric 12y ago
  AC means you’re keeping heat out in the summer. A well-insulated house is cheaper to heat in the winter and cool in the summer. Traditional housing in warm climates focused on removing heat from homes but fans take take little energy to move lots of air so that's not a major issue in a modern home. The real gains come from managing solar heat gain. A fairly small solar hot water heater can keep a well insulated house warm in most of the world, other options include things like a solar porch etc. External shade can also drasticaly reduce heat gain in the summer. Pushing past that and using things like ground source heating can also work, but they rarely pay off.

TomatoTomato 12y ago

It would be awesome to have lightweight, super reflective materials for socks, gloves, jackets, and base layers. But, eliminating indoor heating is clearly ridiculous. Although, reducing the thermostat several degrees while remaining comfortable is certainly a reachable goal.

stonogo 12y ago

The headline should be "These scientists apparently do not live in a house with toilet seats"

themgt 12y ago
Waking up in the morning, shivering cold, and needing to sit down on a toilet seat that was about 0°C for a very, very necessary bowel movement, was probably one of the least pleasant experiences in my life so far.
- zaroth 12y ago
  I'd say you're doing pretty well then ;-) but point taken.
leepowers 12y ago
Well, you could have certain "warm rooms" in your house that are heated normally. Heating bathroom(s) is significantly less area and cost than heating a whole house.
- stonogo 12y ago
  I guess they shouldn't have used the phrase "eliminate need for indoor heating" in the title then.
seanmcdirmid 12y ago
Japan is indoor heating deficient...why do you think they invented heated toilet seats and the kotatsu!
sscotth 12y ago
No problem: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B008Q6EN1C http://www.amazon.com/dp/B008Q6EN1C

lafar6502 12y ago

why they don't wrap a house in this fabric instead?

stefanix 12y ago

Warm clothing has been solved a long time ago. This is not the critical point why houses are heated.

TYPE_FASTER 12y ago

It's really hard to type with cold hands. http://www.usbgeek.com/products/usb-heating-gloves http://www.usbgeek.com/products/usb-heating-gloves

nogridbag 12y ago
Have you used these? Seems like it would be annoying to be plugged into USB while I type (especially since I have no more USB ports available!). I use fingerless gloves and a mini personal heater occasionally in the office when it gets cold. My coworkers find it a bit strange, but I like to program in comfort.

roberthahn 12y ago

Wouldn't it make more sense to design houses that are significantly cheaper to heat but are still breathable? Could this material help in the design of such homes? A lot of people talk about frozen plumbing, but food, plants and pets are also a consideration. I don't know about you, but I sure as heck am not going to dress my cats. If it must be clothing, then I can definitely see the appeal of spring-weight clothes that keep you warm in the winter. I would love to wear something like that.

analog31 12y ago
>>> Wouldn't it make more sense to design houses that are significantly cheaper to heat but are still breathable? Homes have a lot more surface area, so the power required to keep them heated is higher, given similar insulation, etc. On the other hand, house insulation can be thicker and lower tech. Stopping short of eliminating home heating altogether, it can make sense to improve the insulation of a home, turning down the thermostat, and putting on an extra layer or two of clothing. Everybody in my house is wearing a sweater right now. Naturally, reducing the exposed surface area by making houses smaller or attaching them together (i.e., apartment buildings), could make them cheaper to heat too.

nakedAtAllTimes 12y ago

I don't wear clothes when I'm indoors.

mikelyons 12y ago

Who the hell wants to see their breath indoors?

sippeangelo 12y ago

Super-insulated houses could eliminate need for indoor clothing AND heating!

matdrewin 12y ago

Heating helps fight humidity in Winter which in turn prevents mold.

ninguem2 12y ago

I was surprised by this bit: 47% of global energy is spent on indoor heating, and 42% of that specifically for residential heating. Seems like a lot to me. A cynic may say that, if that's true, then global warming would be self-correcting since, as the world heats up, fewer people will need heating.

maxerickson 12y ago
It's not true. According to the EIA, 11% of global energy consumption went to residential uses in 2007: http://www.eia.gov/forecasts/archive/ieo07/enduse.html http://www.eia.gov/forecasts/archive/ieo07/enduse.html So it would be difficult for residential heating to be more than 10% of total consumption.
gwern 12y ago
If you google the stat, it seems to be a little more plausible: 47% for heating and cooling. it is not obvious that global warming would be a net savings of energy: much of the world is already very warm and relies heavily on air conditioning.
- maxerickson 12y ago
  The only plausible way to reach 47% is for "building energy consumption". So excluding things like industry and transport.

molsongolden 12y ago

I wonder how expensive this might be to incorporate into lightweight outerwear. If it really remains breathable enough for use in high output activity then I could see this being useful in high-end mountaineering, alpinism, and ice climbing apparel/gear especially gloves, boots, and hard shell outerwear.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

pvaldes 12y ago

I find a little disturbing the idea of having silver in contact with your skin 24h/7days/3-6months each year for many years: http://www.rosemaryjacobs.com/ http://www.rosemaryjacobs.com/ http://health.howstuffworks.com/skin-care/problems/medical/colloidal-silver-blue-skin.htm http://health.howstuffworks.com/skin-care/problems/medical/c...