5 ms·

> how mainstream newspapers in France are careful not to make the amalgam between these few barbarians and a whole religion Although it would be nice, from a P

by aragot 12y ago

> how mainstream newspapers in France are careful not to make the amalgam between these few barbarians and a whole religion Although it would be nice, from a PR standpoint, if some French Muslim organizations could condemn those events, becuase I don't know what most Muslims think about Charlie Hebdo. Have they? I have searched Google News for that and didn't find links, so please post if there are some. Or they may just not be sufficiently organized for PR.

jknz 12y ago
The president of the UOIF [1], the collective of all the French muslim organizations, is invited to speak at 8pm on France 2 (the national TV channel). Source: https://twitter.com/UOIF/status/552891285900894209 https://twitter.com/UOIF/status/552891285900894209 [1]: http://www.uoif-online.com/ http://www.uoif-online.com/
- InclinedPlane 12y ago
  See also: http://www.uoif-online.com/communiques/horrible-attaque-au-siege-charlie-hebdo/ http://www.uoif-online.com/communiques/horrible-attaque-au-s... ["The UOIF condemns in the strongest terms this criminal attack, and these horrible murders."](translated)
gohrt 12y ago
> I don't know what most Muslims think about Charlie Hebdo Maybe ask most Muslims, not some self-appointed leaders?
- mercer 12y ago
  At least here in Holland, many muslims form communities, often centered around cultural and religious centers. These communities tend to have leaders and/or spokespeople. These people can speak on behalf of the community. They are not (necessarily) self-appointed. In my experience, here, the moderate muslims are often rather quiet, perhaps out of fear. In general, they do not support extremism and fear non-muslim extremist retaliation. They are in a really bad spot, and I sympathize with their situation.
  - Jayd2014 12y ago
    A Muslim here. > the moderate muslims are often rather quiet. Yes we are. But there are a few reasons for that: 1- First, Muslims can't be put in one group, there is 1.6 billion muslims worldwide with hundreds of different views and levels of tolerance. 2- Most of them don't have time or are too busy with their daily life. Think about the % of people who go vote every four years in a democracy. 30% maybe 50% at max vote, the rest can't be bothered because they are busy with their daily problems. Add to that that most Muslims live in a third world country, so they have enough problems already. 3- The first people affected by terrorism in term of body counts and extremism in general are Muslims themselves. Did you know for example that ISIS consider the previous president of egypt (Mursi) who is from the muslim brotherhood to be an infidel who need to be killed. 4- People in Muslim countries are getting numb to all this news reports because they are used to it. I remember when I was a kid watching Arab TV news showing people dying in Palestine and at one time the TV commentator laughed. She then said she was sorry and she didn't mean to laugh at what was happening. Most Arabs/Muslim who care about what's going on the Middle East have already watched too much death to react to it. 5- Some people do want to go to the street and demonstrate against this blood shed but they are not allowed by their local governments. They fear that this could turn in a revolt. Arab spring says hi. 6- There have been hundreds if not thousands of condemnation an protests by muslims all over the world but the media don't cover them much because they don't fit the narrative of evil muslims. Me as a Muslim I'm ashamed of what is happening and wish this Scumbugs are captured and put to justice. I see to much politic invested in terrorism that I know it's about power not about religion. I also do believe we muslims failed big time to adapt to the 21st century and need to wake up and get our acts together. I'm really sorry for the families of the victims and I hope they capture the scums who did this. There was an interesting discussion on reddit about this: http://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/2rmmx8/eli5_if_most_muslims_disagree_with_the_actions_of/ http://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/2rmmx8/el...
    - waps 12y ago
      The problem is that the terrorists are right about islam. So what do you think about your prophet doing the same ? Are you also ashamed of that ? He had the mother of 5 children murdered for opposing him. As you (should) know, this is far from the only instance of such action by "the prophet". I am sorry but unless you wholeheartedly condemn this kind of killing, whoever did it, your gesture means little. If you don't condemn your prophet, when is killing for insults allowed and when is it not becomes a valid question. To put it bluntly : if you don't condemn this, you're at least somewhat of a terrorist supporter. If you do, how can you be a muslim (given what the daily prayer says, mohamed could not have done anything wrong, plus you'd be lying when you say that prayer). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%27Asma%27_bint_Marwan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%27Asma%27_bint_Marwan Allow me to put up the full actions of the prophet : Upon hearing the poem, Muhammad then called for her death in turn, saying "Who will rid me of Marwan's daughter?" Umayr bin Adiy al-Khatmi, a blind man belonging to the same tribe as Asma’s husband (i.e., Banu Khatma) responded that he would. He crept into her room in the dark of night where she was sleeping with her five children, her infant child close to her bosom. Umayr removed the child from Asma's breast and killed her. This is far from the only time that muhammad did this sort of thing, and this is part of the "canon" of islam. It is also law in over 50 countries. Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%27Asma%27_bint_Marwan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%27Asma%27_bint_Marwan (but if you doubt the quote, just type it into Google)
zukhan 12y ago
Yes, they have. You don't find it in Google News since Muslims condemning these acts isn't "news" and doesn't usually get covered by the media. Muslim leaders and organizations around the world condemning the attack: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/01/46-examples-of-muslim-outrage-about-paris-shooting-that-fox-news-cant-seem-to-find/ http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/01/46-examples-of-muslim-out... Some of the greatest Muslim scholars (who the masses follow) had to say about it: http://www.onislam.net/english/shariah/special-coverage/481653-paris-attack-charlie-hebdo-terrorist-cartoon.html http://www.onislam.net/english/shariah/special-coverage/4816... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/07/muslims-respond-charlie-hebdo_n_6429710.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/07/muslims-respond-cha... http://www.democracynow.org/2015/1/7/leading_muslim_scholar_tariq_ramadan_attack http://www.democracynow.org/2015/1/7/leading_muslim_scholar_... I can go on and on but I think you get the picture. Practicing orthodox Muslims (notice I didn't say "moderate Muslims") are NOT quiet on this.

by aragot 12y ago

jknz 12y ago

The president of the UOIF [1], the collective of all the French muslim organizations, is invited to speak at 8pm on France 2 (the national TV channel). Source: https://twitter.com/UOIF/status/552891285900894209 https://twitter.com/UOIF/status/552891285900894209 [1]: http://www.uoif-online.com/ http://www.uoif-online.com/

InclinedPlane 12y ago
See also: http://www.uoif-online.com/communiques/horrible-attaque-au-siege-charlie-hebdo/ http://www.uoif-online.com/communiques/horrible-attaque-au-s... ["The UOIF condemns in the strongest terms this criminal attack, and these horrible murders."](translated)

gohrt 12y ago

> I don't know what most Muslims think about Charlie Hebdo Maybe ask most Muslims, not some self-appointed leaders?

mercer 12y ago
At least here in Holland, many muslims form communities, often centered around cultural and religious centers. These communities tend to have leaders and/or spokespeople. These people can speak on behalf of the community. They are not (necessarily) self-appointed. In my experience, here, the moderate muslims are often rather quiet, perhaps out of fear. In general, they do not support extremism and fear non-muslim extremist retaliation. They are in a really bad spot, and I sympathize with their situation.
- Jayd2014 12y ago
  A Muslim here. > the moderate muslims are often rather quiet. Yes we are. But there are a few reasons for that: 1- First, Muslims can't be put in one group, there is 1.6 billion muslims worldwide with hundreds of different views and levels of tolerance. 2- Most of them don't have time or are too busy with their daily life. Think about the % of people who go vote every four years in a democracy. 30% maybe 50% at max vote, the rest can't be bothered because they are busy with their daily problems. Add to that that most Muslims live in a third world country, so they have enough problems already. 3- The first people affected by terrorism in term of body counts and extremism in general are Muslims themselves. Did you know for example that ISIS consider the previous president of egypt (Mursi) who is from the muslim brotherhood to be an infidel who need to be killed. 4- People in Muslim countries are getting numb to all this news reports because they are used to it. I remember when I was a kid watching Arab TV news showing people dying in Palestine and at one time the TV commentator laughed. She then said she was sorry and she didn't mean to laugh at what was happening. Most Arabs/Muslim who care about what's going on the Middle East have already watched too much death to react to it. 5- Some people do want to go to the street and demonstrate against this blood shed but they are not allowed by their local governments. They fear that this could turn in a revolt. Arab spring says hi. 6- There have been hundreds if not thousands of condemnation an protests by muslims all over the world but the media don't cover them much because they don't fit the narrative of evil muslims. Me as a Muslim I'm ashamed of what is happening and wish this Scumbugs are captured and put to justice. I see to much politic invested in terrorism that I know it's about power not about religion. I also do believe we muslims failed big time to adapt to the 21st century and need to wake up and get our acts together. I'm really sorry for the families of the victims and I hope they capture the scums who did this. There was an interesting discussion on reddit about this: http://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/2rmmx8/eli5_if_most_muslims_disagree_with_the_actions_of/ http://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/2rmmx8/el...
  - waps 12y ago
    The problem is that the terrorists are right about islam. So what do you think about your prophet doing the same ? Are you also ashamed of that ? He had the mother of 5 children murdered for opposing him. As you (should) know, this is far from the only instance of such action by "the prophet". I am sorry but unless you wholeheartedly condemn this kind of killing, whoever did it, your gesture means little. If you don't condemn your prophet, when is killing for insults allowed and when is it not becomes a valid question. To put it bluntly : if you don't condemn this, you're at least somewhat of a terrorist supporter. If you do, how can you be a muslim (given what the daily prayer says, mohamed could not have done anything wrong, plus you'd be lying when you say that prayer). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%27Asma%27_bint_Marwan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%27Asma%27_bint_Marwan Allow me to put up the full actions of the prophet : Upon hearing the poem, Muhammad then called for her death in turn, saying "Who will rid me of Marwan's daughter?" Umayr bin Adiy al-Khatmi, a blind man belonging to the same tribe as Asma’s husband (i.e., Banu Khatma) responded that he would. He crept into her room in the dark of night where she was sleeping with her five children, her infant child close to her bosom. Umayr removed the child from Asma's breast and killed her. This is far from the only time that muhammad did this sort of thing, and this is part of the "canon" of islam. It is also law in over 50 countries. Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%27Asma%27_bint_Marwan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%27Asma%27_bint_Marwan (but if you doubt the quote, just type it into Google)

zukhan 12y ago

Yes, they have. You don't find it in Google News since Muslims condemning these acts isn't "news" and doesn't usually get covered by the media. Muslim leaders and organizations around the world condemning the attack: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/01/46-examples-of-muslim-outrage-about-paris-shooting-that-fox-news-cant-seem-to-find/ http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/01/46-examples-of-muslim-out... Some of the greatest Muslim scholars (who the masses follow) had to say about it: http://www.onislam.net/english/shariah/special-coverage/481653-paris-attack-charlie-hebdo-terrorist-cartoon.html http://www.onislam.net/english/shariah/special-coverage/4816... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/07/muslims-respond-charlie-hebdo_n_6429710.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/07/muslims-respond-cha... http://www.democracynow.org/2015/1/7/leading_muslim_scholar_tariq_ramadan_attack http://www.democracynow.org/2015/1/7/leading_muslim_scholar_... I can go on and on but I think you get the picture. Practicing orthodox Muslims (notice I didn't say "moderate Muslims") are NOT quiet on this.