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Google Unveils a Tool to Check If Users Are Looking at Video Ads

23 points by sidcool 12y ago

coding4all 12y ago
Thank god for Minitube [1] and youtube-dl [2] . youtube-dl can download videos from not only YouTube, but over 500 different services. [1] http://flavio.tordini.org/minitube http://flavio.tordini.org/minitube [2] https://rg3.github.io/youtube-dl/ https://rg3.github.io/youtube-dl/
- shultays 12y ago
  Install adblock, it blocks youtube video ads too
  - ferrari8608 12y ago
    In particular, Adblock Edge. They claim not to whitelist. I doubt ad blocking is going to work for Youtube much longer, though. If they can detect when you're not actually watching, what's to stop them from just not letting you watch the video if you refuse to watch at least two seconds of the ad? "Mohan said the goal is to make sure that advertisers’ video spots run for at least two seconds while covering at least 50 percent of screens -- the industry standard. "
    - shultays 12y ago
      I am sure someone else, if not adblock, would come with something new to beat this new system too.
  - coding4all 12y ago
    Ghostery + NoScript does just fine. Apparently people don't know but, NoScript also blocks flash, silverlight, and html5 videos/storage. I didn't even know Youtube had Ads until I went to a friend's house. Adblock is one of the worst plugins you can ever install if you still wish to use your browser without hogging resources.
    - mih 12y ago
      Chrome based browsers have µBlock[1] and µMatrix[2] extensions to mitigate this very issue of hogging resources. Unfortunately these are not ported to Firefox yet. EDIT: Links to source code for both [1]https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock [2]https://github.com/gorhill/uMatrix https://github.com/gorhill/uMatrix
    - barrkel 12y ago
      NoScript is one of the worst plugins you can ever install if you want to have a modern web experience without per-site configuration. Meanwhile, Ghostery caused a number of web sites to stop working for me - commenting in particular, IIRC, but it's been a few years. ABP could be better implemented, for sure, but mostly it just works.
  - mattmanser 12y ago
    4OD, channel 4's on demand service in the UK, now detects if you're running adblock and prevents you from playing the video unless you disable it. This will soon be common to all as based services.
    - shultays 12y ago
      I am pretty sure this option was available for a long time. It would be common already if companies went to take that path
    - robinson-wall 12y ago
      Except it only checks on page load. If you open the page with adblock disabled and then switch it on, it works.
    - phatfish 12y ago
      4OD also serves ridiculous 2 minuet broadcast TV style blocks of Ads. This is why everyone runs AdBlock on their site, and why they fight a loosing battle to try a force people to view them. Youtube adverts are tolerable, and sometimes i even watch past the 5 second skip if it is funny or interesting. 4OD ads get blocked outright.
shitlord 12y ago
I think this might be an effective response to AdBlock. It seems like death by 1000 cuts. If ad blockers don't work on YouTube, then the average person won't bother to use them (because they won't be bothered to configure them). Videos are everywhere, and networks have improved to the point where you can reliably stream them from a mobile device. Is this the beginning of video ads plastered all over the web? Or is this just going to make YouTube more annoying?
- nostromo 12y ago
  I think this is unrelated to AdBlock. It seems to be only about how many users click the "skip" button on YouTube ads.
  - AdamTReineke 12y ago
    I can't believe they weren't already reporting that. If I was an advertiser, I'd want to know how many people were skipping my ad and their demographics so I could stop targeting that segment -- or change my ads to reach that group better.
bob917 12y ago
I work for an advertising agency in Memphis and would like to remind everyone how awesome advertisements are!
j_lev 12y ago
Simplest way to check whether people are looking at the ads is to make them all "skip to video in x seconds" ads, and then monitor for users who machine-gun said Skip button.
- aluhut 12y ago
  Don't they have that already? I see it in the App but never seen it on my PC because of µBlock. Oh yeah, I hate them. Always to loud. Always unwanted. I'll find a way to block it on my phone too.
sidcool 12y ago
I think detecting Ctrl+Tab or Alt+Tab is a good enough ballpark way of detecting if users are viewing a video ad.
- pestaa 12y ago
  I always stay on tab to optimize for clicking Skip as soon as possible.
  - toothbrush 12y ago
    I don't want to be inflammatory, really, but i'm actually quite surprised that quite a few people on HN don't "own their box", so to speak (i'm referring to the people who are prepared to waste time staring at a button until it says "skip"). One aspect of this would be doing whatever is necessary to get their box not to do unwanted stuff like playing ads.
    - pestaa 12y ago
      Nowhere I mentioned it was on my box. Looking at a 5-sec portion of an ad is part of the deal when you listen to music on Youtube.
      - toothbrush 12y ago
        Not for me it isn't. I'm assuming it's your box which is decoding the ad and playing it to you, hence my remark. On the other hand, if you're referring to listening to Youtube on a friend's box where you have no inclination to mess with things, consider my comment invalid :)
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
nkangoh 12y ago
Anyone watch Black Mirror? Remember 15 Million Merits? Heh...
jarcane 12y ago
I think the most amusing detail of this story is that the stock plot shows a 12-point drop in Google's share price on the date of this story. There's even a noticeable valley in the day chart right around the time this story came out. It's almost as if the investors are cottoning on to the storytime ...
anigbrowl 12y ago
I allow Google to show me its own ads, which are strongly graphically constrained compared to regular web advertising. But video ads are just insufferably obnoxious.
- john2x 12y ago
  The worst thing about video ads is the bandwidth wasted on them. Especially in a country with not-so-good internet, those seconds wasted on video ads are precious.
  - Methusalah 12y ago
    It also drives me crazy when they play an ad before you can watch what is effectively an ad that you chose to watch (trailers, previews, etc.)
NZ_Matt 12y ago
Facebook has a simple but clever way of tracking who is engaged with their video advertisements. Video ads auto play in the background without audio, the user has to click on the video to get audio. Presumably they're then able to track engagement by the number of users who specifically choose to watch the video with audio..
- chii 12y ago
  and in the process suck down a bunch of wasted bandwidth. I hate it when a site auto-plays any video (or long audio), since i want to choose to not expend the bandwidth, but the choice is taken away from me.
  - CaveTech 12y ago
    https://www.facebook.com/settings?tab=videos https://www.facebook.com/settings?tab=videos Auto-Play Videos >> "Off"
- GotAnyMegadeth 12y ago
  If anyone from FB is here: I am ok with videos autoplaying, but if I then click to watch the video, please start it from the start. So many times I see something that looks funny, click it, and then all I get is the punch line as the video carries on from halfway through.
blueskin_ 12y ago
I wonder if this detects who uses Adblock Edge. >“Video is the preferred means by which brand advertisers connect with their consumers,” Mohan said. “It’s a way to make them sort of laugh, make them think, have them make that emotional connection.” pfffft. Sounds funny, since everyone I've ever heard anything about them from hates video ads like nothing else.
mrweasel 12y ago
I actually think this is a good thing. I expect videos ads to disappear in the following year, assuming that Google tool works. People would need to react much different that I suspect if the result isn't that less than 10% actually view videos ads. Even my four year old nephew knows how to skip a video ads. Either video ads need to be cheaper than dirt or I'm have to be way of the make the economy work. With the exception of ads on search engines and a few highly targeted sites, I don't see ads (not just video) as a viable way of financing a service. It must be working for site like Youtube and Facebook of cause, I just don't know how, it's a complete mystery.
jmnicolas 12y ago
How about they start producing interesting content (emphasis on interesting) with a bit of product placement inside ? I don't want to watch 30s of publicity for something I don't like and will never buy (and it could even make hate the brand). But if you insert in the video non obnoxious product placement I can live with it. Example : I watched a cooking recipe yesterday. The cook emphasized 2 or 3 times the brand of flour he was using and that's it. I understand he needs to make a living (he's a pro, not a home cook) he was not obnoxious about it, I'm OK with that. I even have a more positive view of the brand he was advocating since they are clever about their publicity.
- gergo_v 12y ago
  The problem with that, and "native" advertising in general is that it's a form of affiliate marketing, where the brand has little to no control over how obnoxious and spammed the delivery will be. Not to mention the fact that brand advertisers are really picky on where they are being promoted. They're dipping their toes in real time bidding platforms, but that's a whole different beast to tackle.
  - pdkl95 12y ago
    While non-disclosed "native" advertising is dangerously close to "fraud" and is only going to hurt brands in the long run, properly disclosed "sponsors" or "affiliates" can be one of the best forms of advertising. It takes a skilled marketer and there is always risk, but the potential are also large. If I already watch somebody like the professional chef, their opinions of various related brands (such as flour) may also be valuable. I don't have to like their opinion - they just have to have a consistent-enough history[1]. IN the case of the chef mentioning a particular brand of flour, the fact that the chef agreed to advertise for that brand (the risk goes both ways[2]) can act as a filter or heuristic. I don't think this is the kind of relationship that can be easily automated. A "real time bidding platform" misses the benefits entirely - if there is filter-effect, you are left with only the annoying (and brand-damaging) parts. [1] ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mm-3GJsr8Xw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mm-3GJsr8Xw ) TotalBiscuit gave a great monologue on this subject somewhat recently. While he focuses on video game reviews (vs "demos", vs "personal opinions/editorials"), the ideas presented apply generally. (the video track in this link can be safely ignored) [2] In addition to the business risking a bad delivery, the chef risks his own reputation (and audience) if that brand of flower ends up being hated. If the audience starts to see the chef a merely a shill for various brands, the audience can suddenly turn against everybody involved. edit: fixed the URL - apparently TotalBiscuit now has more than one video about review/marketing/etc.
soneil 12y ago
Seems to be attacking the wrong issue. Love it or loath it, AdWords does seem to actually work. I usually get a fairly high percentage of advertising targetted towards my interests. The most common way it goes wrong is when it continues to show me adverts for something I've already purchased. But video ads? I get: A lot of adverts for trading platforms. I have no idea why. A lot of french adverts at work - because our connection surfaces there. However, I'm logged into my account, in English, I see no reason it shouldn't know better. Youtube seems to have perfected the art of showing me adverts I'm not, and will never be interested in. Whether they have my attention or not is irrelevant.
DanBC 12y ago
I am ad-tolerant. I find YouTube ads to be just weird and annoying. i) I get gambling ads. This is a sleazy destructive industry and people should have to opt-in to receive ads for gambling products. (Ditto alcohol). ii) I will queue up some obviously children's content for my son but get an adult's ad (eg ads for violent film) before that. This is fuckig stupid and it's disappointing that Google gets this wrong. iii) I'll go to watch a 30 minute video but get a 5 minute ad. (Or maybe 3 minutes?) I should start making a list of the company names that do it. iv) a lot of the ads are just terrible Google really needs to implement some controls so people can avoid alcohol and gambling ads.
- unbeli 12y ago
  Why is it just alcohol and gambling and not, say, cat food and toothbrushes? I understand you don't like alcohol and gambling, but how do you derive that others should be prevented from seeing what you don't like?
  - TOMDM 12y ago
    Not that I necessarily agree, though I can see the logic, they are suggesting that ads that promote destructive behavior be opt in. Things such as gambling, smoking and (though somewhat debate-ably) alcohol all fall into this category. Regardless of whether you agree with it or not, many countries now ban the advertising of cigarettes, so realistically, it's not too alien of an idea.
  - majestic1211 12y ago
    Because alcohol and gambling tend to be more addictive than cat food and toothbrushes. It is not a good idea to force an ad for beer on an ex-alcoholic/someone trying to stop alcohol, for example.
  - DanBC 12y ago
    I am asking for a filter for my personal feed. I am mot asking for a filter for other people. Sorry I didn't make that clear. This has weak potential for a claim under English law. If I am a person with an addiction to alcohol I might ask YouTube to make a reasonable adjustment: not to show me alcohol adverts. Allowing users some granularity over ads makes sense for everyone. I am never going to buy nor rent a car so showing me car ads is stupid. Allow me to opt out of seeing car ads and the advertisers save money and the content I'm watchig doesn't get negative associations and I am less likely to install ad blocking software. But if I create a video and host it on YouTube I would want to prevent adverts for gambling or alcohol to appear next to that video. I'm not sure this is offerred by Google.
huhtenberg 12y ago
This is a remarkably useless metric. The only reason anyone wouldn't skip an ad is when they are not looking at the screen, which is an inherently random event. Fine tuning an ad campaign based on this doesn't make much sense, does it?
deong 12y ago
I already have that tool on my system under the name /bin/false.

23 points by sidcool 12y ago

Thank god for Minitube [1] and youtube-dl [2] . youtube-dl can download videos from not only YouTube, but over 500 different services. [1] http://flavio.tordini.org/minitube http://flavio.tordini.org/minitube [2] https://rg3.github.io/youtube-dl/ https://rg3.github.io/youtube-dl/

shultays 12y ago
Install adblock, it blocks youtube video ads too
- ferrari8608 12y ago
  In particular, Adblock Edge. They claim not to whitelist. I doubt ad blocking is going to work for Youtube much longer, though. If they can detect when you're not actually watching, what's to stop them from just not letting you watch the video if you refuse to watch at least two seconds of the ad? "Mohan said the goal is to make sure that advertisers’ video spots run for at least two seconds while covering at least 50 percent of screens -- the industry standard. "
  - shultays 12y ago
    I am sure someone else, if not adblock, would come with something new to beat this new system too.
- coding4all 12y ago
  Ghostery + NoScript does just fine. Apparently people don't know but, NoScript also blocks flash, silverlight, and html5 videos/storage. I didn't even know Youtube had Ads until I went to a friend's house. Adblock is one of the worst plugins you can ever install if you still wish to use your browser without hogging resources.
  - mih 12y ago
    Chrome based browsers have µBlock[1] and µMatrix[2] extensions to mitigate this very issue of hogging resources. Unfortunately these are not ported to Firefox yet. EDIT: Links to source code for both [1]https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock [2]https://github.com/gorhill/uMatrix https://github.com/gorhill/uMatrix
  - barrkel 12y ago
    NoScript is one of the worst plugins you can ever install if you want to have a modern web experience without per-site configuration. Meanwhile, Ghostery caused a number of web sites to stop working for me - commenting in particular, IIRC, but it's been a few years. ABP could be better implemented, for sure, but mostly it just works.
- mattmanser 12y ago
  4OD, channel 4's on demand service in the UK, now detects if you're running adblock and prevents you from playing the video unless you disable it. This will soon be common to all as based services.
  - shultays 12y ago
    I am pretty sure this option was available for a long time. It would be common already if companies went to take that path
  - robinson-wall 12y ago
    Except it only checks on page load. If you open the page with adblock disabled and then switch it on, it works.
  - phatfish 12y ago
    4OD also serves ridiculous 2 minuet broadcast TV style blocks of Ads. This is why everyone runs AdBlock on their site, and why they fight a loosing battle to try a force people to view them. Youtube adverts are tolerable, and sometimes i even watch past the 5 second skip if it is funny or interesting. 4OD ads get blocked outright.

shitlord 12y ago

I think this might be an effective response to AdBlock. It seems like death by 1000 cuts. If ad blockers don't work on YouTube, then the average person won't bother to use them (because they won't be bothered to configure them). Videos are everywhere, and networks have improved to the point where you can reliably stream them from a mobile device. Is this the beginning of video ads plastered all over the web? Or is this just going to make YouTube more annoying?

nostromo 12y ago
I think this is unrelated to AdBlock. It seems to be only about how many users click the "skip" button on YouTube ads.
- AdamTReineke 12y ago
  I can't believe they weren't already reporting that. If I was an advertiser, I'd want to know how many people were skipping my ad and their demographics so I could stop targeting that segment -- or change my ads to reach that group better.

bob917 12y ago

I work for an advertising agency in Memphis and would like to remind everyone how awesome advertisements are!

j_lev 12y ago

Simplest way to check whether people are looking at the ads is to make them all "skip to video in x seconds" ads, and then monitor for users who machine-gun said Skip button.

aluhut 12y ago
Don't they have that already? I see it in the App but never seen it on my PC because of µBlock. Oh yeah, I hate them. Always to loud. Always unwanted. I'll find a way to block it on my phone too.

sidcool 12y ago

I think detecting Ctrl+Tab or Alt+Tab is a good enough ballpark way of detecting if users are viewing a video ad.

pestaa 12y ago
I always stay on tab to optimize for clicking Skip as soon as possible.
- toothbrush 12y ago
  I don't want to be inflammatory, really, but i'm actually quite surprised that quite a few people on HN don't "own their box", so to speak (i'm referring to the people who are prepared to waste time staring at a button until it says "skip"). One aspect of this would be doing whatever is necessary to get their box not to do unwanted stuff like playing ads.
  - pestaa 12y ago
    Nowhere I mentioned it was on my box. Looking at a 5-sec portion of an ad is part of the deal when you listen to music on Youtube.
    - toothbrush 12y ago
      Not for me it isn't. I'm assuming it's your box which is decoding the ad and playing it to you, hence my remark. On the other hand, if you're referring to listening to Youtube on a friend's box where you have no inclination to mess with things, consider my comment invalid :)
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]

nkangoh 12y ago

Anyone watch Black Mirror? Remember 15 Million Merits? Heh...

jarcane 12y ago

I think the most amusing detail of this story is that the stock plot shows a 12-point drop in Google's share price on the date of this story. There's even a noticeable valley in the day chart right around the time this story came out. It's almost as if the investors are cottoning on to the storytime ...

anigbrowl 12y ago

I allow Google to show me its own ads, which are strongly graphically constrained compared to regular web advertising. But video ads are just insufferably obnoxious.

john2x 12y ago
The worst thing about video ads is the bandwidth wasted on them. Especially in a country with not-so-good internet, those seconds wasted on video ads are precious.
- Methusalah 12y ago
  It also drives me crazy when they play an ad before you can watch what is effectively an ad that you chose to watch (trailers, previews, etc.)

NZ_Matt 12y ago

Facebook has a simple but clever way of tracking who is engaged with their video advertisements. Video ads auto play in the background without audio, the user has to click on the video to get audio. Presumably they're then able to track engagement by the number of users who specifically choose to watch the video with audio..

chii 12y ago
and in the process suck down a bunch of wasted bandwidth. I hate it when a site auto-plays any video (or long audio), since i want to choose to not expend the bandwidth, but the choice is taken away from me.
- CaveTech 12y ago
  https://www.facebook.com/settings?tab=videos https://www.facebook.com/settings?tab=videos Auto-Play Videos >> "Off"
GotAnyMegadeth 12y ago
If anyone from FB is here: I am ok with videos autoplaying, but if I then click to watch the video, please start it from the start. So many times I see something that looks funny, click it, and then all I get is the punch line as the video carries on from halfway through.

blueskin_ 12y ago

I wonder if this detects who uses Adblock Edge. >“Video is the preferred means by which brand advertisers connect with their consumers,” Mohan said. “It’s a way to make them sort of laugh, make them think, have them make that emotional connection.” pfffft. Sounds funny, since everyone I've ever heard anything about them from hates video ads like nothing else.

mrweasel 12y ago

I actually think this is a good thing. I expect videos ads to disappear in the following year, assuming that Google tool works. People would need to react much different that I suspect if the result isn't that less than 10% actually view videos ads. Even my four year old nephew knows how to skip a video ads. Either video ads need to be cheaper than dirt or I'm have to be way of the make the economy work. With the exception of ads on search engines and a few highly targeted sites, I don't see ads (not just video) as a viable way of financing a service. It must be working for site like Youtube and Facebook of cause, I just don't know how, it's a complete mystery.

jmnicolas 12y ago

How about they start producing interesting content (emphasis on interesting) with a bit of product placement inside ? I don't want to watch 30s of publicity for something I don't like and will never buy (and it could even make hate the brand). But if you insert in the video non obnoxious product placement I can live with it. Example : I watched a cooking recipe yesterday. The cook emphasized 2 or 3 times the brand of flour he was using and that's it. I understand he needs to make a living (he's a pro, not a home cook) he was not obnoxious about it, I'm OK with that. I even have a more positive view of the brand he was advocating since they are clever about their publicity.

gergo_v 12y ago
The problem with that, and "native" advertising in general is that it's a form of affiliate marketing, where the brand has little to no control over how obnoxious and spammed the delivery will be. Not to mention the fact that brand advertisers are really picky on where they are being promoted. They're dipping their toes in real time bidding platforms, but that's a whole different beast to tackle.
- pdkl95 12y ago
  While non-disclosed "native" advertising is dangerously close to "fraud" and is only going to hurt brands in the long run, properly disclosed "sponsors" or "affiliates" can be one of the best forms of advertising. It takes a skilled marketer and there is always risk, but the potential are also large. If I already watch somebody like the professional chef, their opinions of various related brands (such as flour) may also be valuable. I don't have to like their opinion - they just have to have a consistent-enough history[1]. IN the case of the chef mentioning a particular brand of flour, the fact that the chef agreed to advertise for that brand (the risk goes both ways[2]) can act as a filter or heuristic. I don't think this is the kind of relationship that can be easily automated. A "real time bidding platform" misses the benefits entirely - if there is filter-effect, you are left with only the annoying (and brand-damaging) parts. [1] ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mm-3GJsr8Xw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mm-3GJsr8Xw ) TotalBiscuit gave a great monologue on this subject somewhat recently. While he focuses on video game reviews (vs "demos", vs "personal opinions/editorials"), the ideas presented apply generally. (the video track in this link can be safely ignored) [2] In addition to the business risking a bad delivery, the chef risks his own reputation (and audience) if that brand of flower ends up being hated. If the audience starts to see the chef a merely a shill for various brands, the audience can suddenly turn against everybody involved. edit: fixed the URL - apparently TotalBiscuit now has more than one video about review/marketing/etc.

soneil 12y ago

Seems to be attacking the wrong issue. Love it or loath it, AdWords does seem to actually work. I usually get a fairly high percentage of advertising targetted towards my interests. The most common way it goes wrong is when it continues to show me adverts for something I've already purchased. But video ads? I get: A lot of adverts for trading platforms. I have no idea why. A lot of french adverts at work - because our connection surfaces there. However, I'm logged into my account, in English, I see no reason it shouldn't know better. Youtube seems to have perfected the art of showing me adverts I'm not, and will never be interested in. Whether they have my attention or not is irrelevant.

DanBC 12y ago

I am ad-tolerant. I find YouTube ads to be just weird and annoying. i) I get gambling ads. This is a sleazy destructive industry and people should have to opt-in to receive ads for gambling products. (Ditto alcohol). ii) I will queue up some obviously children's content for my son but get an adult's ad (eg ads for violent film) before that. This is fuckig stupid and it's disappointing that Google gets this wrong. iii) I'll go to watch a 30 minute video but get a 5 minute ad. (Or maybe 3 minutes?) I should start making a list of the company names that do it. iv) a lot of the ads are just terrible Google really needs to implement some controls so people can avoid alcohol and gambling ads.

unbeli 12y ago
Why is it just alcohol and gambling and not, say, cat food and toothbrushes? I understand you don't like alcohol and gambling, but how do you derive that others should be prevented from seeing what you don't like?
- TOMDM 12y ago
  Not that I necessarily agree, though I can see the logic, they are suggesting that ads that promote destructive behavior be opt in. Things such as gambling, smoking and (though somewhat debate-ably) alcohol all fall into this category. Regardless of whether you agree with it or not, many countries now ban the advertising of cigarettes, so realistically, it's not too alien of an idea.
- majestic1211 12y ago
  Because alcohol and gambling tend to be more addictive than cat food and toothbrushes. It is not a good idea to force an ad for beer on an ex-alcoholic/someone trying to stop alcohol, for example.
- DanBC 12y ago
  I am asking for a filter for my personal feed. I am mot asking for a filter for other people. Sorry I didn't make that clear. This has weak potential for a claim under English law. If I am a person with an addiction to alcohol I might ask YouTube to make a reasonable adjustment: not to show me alcohol adverts. Allowing users some granularity over ads makes sense for everyone. I am never going to buy nor rent a car so showing me car ads is stupid. Allow me to opt out of seeing car ads and the advertisers save money and the content I'm watchig doesn't get negative associations and I am less likely to install ad blocking software. But if I create a video and host it on YouTube I would want to prevent adverts for gambling or alcohol to appear next to that video. I'm not sure this is offerred by Google.

huhtenberg 12y ago

This is a remarkably useless metric. The only reason anyone wouldn't skip an ad is when they are not looking at the screen, which is an inherently random event. Fine tuning an ad campaign based on this doesn't make much sense, does it?

deong 12y ago

I already have that tool on my system under the name /bin/false.