6 ms·

Hardware like that makes me yearn for one with no wireless and a pair of Gigabit Ethernet ports to use as a firewall and server. It's fairly interesting to not

Hardware like that makes me yearn for one with no wireless and a pair of Gigabit Ethernet ports to use as a firewall and server. It's fairly interesting to note what it's not: Android or Chrome OS. I suspect Microsoft will do quite well out of this, especially in the digital signage market, anywhere which is reasonably price sensitive but if developer time and cost can be reduced then they get a lot of leeway. Still, yet another reminder that the cost of computing is collapsing. Most of the cost here is Intel margin and in the case of the more expensive one MS licenses.

ashcairo 12y ago
Microsoft made licenses for their OS's free for anything under 9 inches.
- seanmcdirmid 12y ago
  Not sure it applies to this, since it doesn't have a screen. Windows is used in a lot of embedded applications, and I think we still charge for that (disclaimer: unknowledgeable Microsoft employee).
  - rbanffy 12y ago
    They'll go great lengths to prevent Linux from getting any more exposure than Windows on any format. A zero or negative-cost license is to be expected.
    - seanmcdirmid 12y ago
      For embedded applications? Those aren't exactly visible; as a consumer, you can't really tell if it is running windows or not. Anyways, I'm not sure.
- sciurus 12y ago
  I thought that was for devices with screens under 9 inches, e.g phones and some tablets. Is there still no charge if it doesn't have a screen?
  - damian2000 12y ago
    You'd think not because desktop PCs, ultra compact PCs (NUC, Brix) by definition don't come with a screen either - screens are add ons. I think the 9" rule basically applied to mobile devices only, i.e. tablets and smartphones.
- tdicola 12y ago
  Is that for OEMs or for end users? I thought it was just for OEMs.
chrismsnz 12y ago
> Hardware like that makes me yearn for one with no wireless and a pair of Gigabit Ethernet ports to use as a firewall and server. Unfortunately, general purpose hardware and operating system needs a fair amount of juice to route and inspect 1gbps of traffic. Best performance per watt I've found is the Edgerouter Lite but that has dedicated routing acceleration hardware to achieve what it does with the little mips processor it has. Closest you'll find is Soekris, ALIX or APU for a routing platform. A Beaglebone black makes a nice little box for lightweight serving on its own.
- jrockway 12y ago
  There are ARM CPUs available that do network forwarding in hardware. Some even support iptables rules. I would be very surprised if a quad-core current-gen Atom could not do that in software, though. I could route 300Mbps through OpenBSD's pf on an AMD Geode.
  - wtallis 12y ago
    There's a lot out there that can do NAT and some firewalling in software at large fractions of a gigabit/s for pretty cheap. But if you throw in QoS and queue management the CPU requirements get very high by the standards of MIPS and embedded x86. And unfortunately, none of the network acceleration hardware you'll find on any of those SoCs has anything like a hardware implementation of fq_codel or even RED. The CeroWRT project has been searching for more than a year for a new generation of hardware to use as the platform for their development of better router software. There's nothing affordable that can keep up with the really fast DOCSIS connections available while doing anything intelligent on a per-packet basis.
    - walterbell 12y ago
      How about running the packet filter in a dual-NIC VM on a VT-d capable PC? Dell T20 has Xeon E3 for $500 with 1TB disk and 4GB RAM. Add a PCI NIC for firewall purposes and still have the rest of the PC for use to run other VMs. GPU can be passed through to another VM.
ac29 12y ago
> Most of the cost here is Intel margin Hard to say. Intel has taken a loss on their mobile division lately [1], and I'm assuming this is a mobile-class processor. ARM has had them spooked, enough to make a major shift into mobile-first development and offering heavy discounts (or perhaps even selling at cost or at a loss) on mobile hardware. [1] http://www.zdnet.com/article/intel-to-merge-pc-and-mobile-processor-units-in-profit-push/# http://www.zdnet.com/article/intel-to-merge-pc-and-mobile-pr...!
erkose 12y ago
"Pre-installed with Windows 8.1* or Linux"
- yitchelle 12y ago
  Why is there a star against the Windows 8.1?
  - erkose 12y ago
    Further down it lists it as an indication of a trademark.
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
ddeck 12y ago
>Hardware like that makes me yearn for one with no wireless and a pair of Gigabit Ethernet ports to use as a firewall and server. You may want to take a look at these: http://www.hystou.com/products/fanless-computers/celeron-1037u-mini-pc/12v-low-power-pc-cheap-desktop-computers-aluminum-case-celeron-1037u-cpu-2g-ram-8g-ssd-1101.html http://www.hystou.com/products/fanless-computers/celeron-103... It's small and fanless with dual gigabit ethernet ports. I use one with VyOS as a dedicated firewall/router/VPN client. Disclaimer: I bought mine from a 3rd party seller (via taobao) and not that site, although I believe they are the manufacturer.
gizzlon 12y ago
> Hardware like that makes me yearn for one with no wireless and a pair of Gigabit Ethernet ports to use as a firewall and server. Yeah, me too.. I currently use a fan-less Via board with integrated 686 compatible CPU. It's been great, but it's now 7 (?) years old so it might be time for an upgrade. Wonder if they still make them, they never got the attention they deserved. Edit: The boards are called EPIA and come in different sizes: http://www.viaembedded.com/en/products/boards/ http://www.viaembedded.com/en/products/boards/ Mine has this processor - It's not Intel or AMD, but "Pentium compatible" :) cpu0: VIA Esther processor 1000MHz ("CentaurHauls" 686-class) 1 GHz Edit 2: Seems like these haven't matured a lot, and are expensive and hard to come by compared to other mini-itx boards. Do like the fanless, integrated processor on mine though, and that the power consumption is really low.
- xorcist 12y ago
  There are fanless Atom motherboards with dual ethernet. Should be a painless upgrade for you when that time comes.
papaf 12y ago
I run one of these and I am quite happy with it: http://archlinuxarm.org/platforms/armv7/marvell/mirabox http://archlinuxarm.org/platforms/armv7/marvell/mirabox The arch support is good (apart of wireless).

ashcairo 12y ago

Microsoft made licenses for their OS's free for anything under 9 inches.

seanmcdirmid 12y ago
Not sure it applies to this, since it doesn't have a screen. Windows is used in a lot of embedded applications, and I think we still charge for that (disclaimer: unknowledgeable Microsoft employee).
- rbanffy 12y ago
  They'll go great lengths to prevent Linux from getting any more exposure than Windows on any format. A zero or negative-cost license is to be expected.
  - seanmcdirmid 12y ago
    For embedded applications? Those aren't exactly visible; as a consumer, you can't really tell if it is running windows or not. Anyways, I'm not sure.
sciurus 12y ago
I thought that was for devices with screens under 9 inches, e.g phones and some tablets. Is there still no charge if it doesn't have a screen?
- damian2000 12y ago
  You'd think not because desktop PCs, ultra compact PCs (NUC, Brix) by definition don't come with a screen either - screens are add ons. I think the 9" rule basically applied to mobile devices only, i.e. tablets and smartphones.
tdicola 12y ago
Is that for OEMs or for end users? I thought it was just for OEMs.

chrismsnz 12y ago

> Hardware like that makes me yearn for one with no wireless and a pair of Gigabit Ethernet ports to use as a firewall and server. Unfortunately, general purpose hardware and operating system needs a fair amount of juice to route and inspect 1gbps of traffic. Best performance per watt I've found is the Edgerouter Lite but that has dedicated routing acceleration hardware to achieve what it does with the little mips processor it has. Closest you'll find is Soekris, ALIX or APU for a routing platform. A Beaglebone black makes a nice little box for lightweight serving on its own.

jrockway 12y ago
There are ARM CPUs available that do network forwarding in hardware. Some even support iptables rules. I would be very surprised if a quad-core current-gen Atom could not do that in software, though. I could route 300Mbps through OpenBSD's pf on an AMD Geode.
- wtallis 12y ago
  There's a lot out there that can do NAT and some firewalling in software at large fractions of a gigabit/s for pretty cheap. But if you throw in QoS and queue management the CPU requirements get very high by the standards of MIPS and embedded x86. And unfortunately, none of the network acceleration hardware you'll find on any of those SoCs has anything like a hardware implementation of fq_codel or even RED. The CeroWRT project has been searching for more than a year for a new generation of hardware to use as the platform for their development of better router software. There's nothing affordable that can keep up with the really fast DOCSIS connections available while doing anything intelligent on a per-packet basis.
  - walterbell 12y ago
    How about running the packet filter in a dual-NIC VM on a VT-d capable PC? Dell T20 has Xeon E3 for $500 with 1TB disk and 4GB RAM. Add a PCI NIC for firewall purposes and still have the rest of the PC for use to run other VMs. GPU can be passed through to another VM.

ac29 12y ago

> Most of the cost here is Intel margin Hard to say. Intel has taken a loss on their mobile division lately [1], and I'm assuming this is a mobile-class processor. ARM has had them spooked, enough to make a major shift into mobile-first development and offering heavy discounts (or perhaps even selling at cost or at a loss) on mobile hardware. [1] http://www.zdnet.com/article/intel-to-merge-pc-and-mobile-processor-units-in-profit-push/# http://www.zdnet.com/article/intel-to-merge-pc-and-mobile-pr...!

erkose 12y ago

"Pre-installed with Windows 8.1* or Linux"

yitchelle 12y ago
Why is there a star against the Windows 8.1?
- erkose 12y ago
  Further down it lists it as an indication of a trademark.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]

ddeck 12y ago

>Hardware like that makes me yearn for one with no wireless and a pair of Gigabit Ethernet ports to use as a firewall and server. You may want to take a look at these: http://www.hystou.com/products/fanless-computers/celeron-1037u-mini-pc/12v-low-power-pc-cheap-desktop-computers-aluminum-case-celeron-1037u-cpu-2g-ram-8g-ssd-1101.html http://www.hystou.com/products/fanless-computers/celeron-103... It's small and fanless with dual gigabit ethernet ports. I use one with VyOS as a dedicated firewall/router/VPN client. Disclaimer: I bought mine from a 3rd party seller (via taobao) and not that site, although I believe they are the manufacturer.

gizzlon 12y ago

> Hardware like that makes me yearn for one with no wireless and a pair of Gigabit Ethernet ports to use as a firewall and server. Yeah, me too.. I currently use a fan-less Via board with integrated 686 compatible CPU. It's been great, but it's now 7 (?) years old so it might be time for an upgrade. Wonder if they still make them, they never got the attention they deserved. Edit: The boards are called EPIA and come in different sizes: http://www.viaembedded.com/en/products/boards/ http://www.viaembedded.com/en/products/boards/ Mine has this processor - It's not Intel or AMD, but "Pentium compatible" :) cpu0: VIA Esther processor 1000MHz ("CentaurHauls" 686-class) 1 GHz Edit 2: Seems like these haven't matured a lot, and are expensive and hard to come by compared to other mini-itx boards. Do like the fanless, integrated processor on mine though, and that the power consumption is really low.

xorcist 12y ago
There are fanless Atom motherboards with dual ethernet. Should be a painless upgrade for you when that time comes.

papaf 12y ago

I run one of these and I am quite happy with it: http://archlinuxarm.org/platforms/armv7/marvell/mirabox http://archlinuxarm.org/platforms/armv7/marvell/mirabox The arch support is good (apart of wireless).