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I can see immigration authorities getting peeved over people who are essentially running a freelance business from the country (hence cracking down on coworking

I can see immigration authorities getting peeved over people who are essentially running a freelance business from the country (hence cracking down on coworking spaces). That looks more like working in the country rather than really working back home: even if all your customers are abroad, the place of your self-employment as a freelancer is where you customarily actually reside and do the work. So if you maintain an office much of the year in Thailand and don't maintain one in the U.S., that sure looks like you're working in Thailand. But most countries don't categorically exclude doing work for a foreign employer while on a visa-free visit. The U.S. visa-waiver program explicitly allows "travel for business or pleasure" up to 90 days, and the EU has an analogous "business travel" exemption. Doing work for your normal "home" employer is expected under the definition of "business travel", which can and usually does include on-site work in the country (not only remote work for your home office). That's what the business travel visa exemption is largely intended to facilitate: things like BP London sending staff to Houston for 3 weeks to supervise plant startup, or Microsoft sending some staff from Redmond to Ireland to hash out a product design in person. As long as it's temporary (typically <90 days) and the employee continues to be employed normally by the home office (not paid by the local office), it doesn't have to be confined to training or conferences, and can include actual work.

seanmcdirmid 12y ago
So much is wrong here. There is a difference between what people do and what they are technically allowed to do. Enforcement is also quite difficult if you are working under the radar. Non immigration business visas don't allow you to do more than attend trainng and meetings, this includes wavers. Now, you might code, that is technically illegal, but they probably won't catch you. But for gods sake, if the immigration officer asks you what you will do, or what you did, just say "attend meetings and training," or you'll be deported so fast you won't know what happened (especially in the US and Switzerland). It might not matter so much going from Ireland to Redmond, but going to Redmond it's a huge Pain in the ass, so much so that we have visa training for employees that do it (I work for Microsoft china) to make sure that US laws are followed (thankfully, I'm a US citizen, but unfortunately that also means I'm subject to double tax whenever I work in the states).
- _delirium 12y ago
  Interesting. My dad used to work for BP, and their lawyers were of the opinion that short-term engineering exchanges between the US and EU, either between corporate offices or to/from their engineering contractors, qualified as visa-waiver business travel. I wouldn't think they'd be trying to fly under the radar, since BP is a huge company that's often subject to regulatory scrutiny, but who knows. As far as I can find, the exemption is somewhat broader than just training, and also includes "business meetings" and meetings for the purpose of contract negotiation/supervision. The thing the lawyers were really worried about was any kind of on-site visit to an operating plant, but that was for reasons of health/safety law, not immigration law. The non-operating engineering staff (local or foreign) had specific rules about what they couldn't do, so they wouldn't count as "operating" the plant, or get remotely implicated in anything safety-related. But for visits between corporate offices, they were very un-worried. Even visits to their Chinese joint-venture partner were pretty hassle-free, just requiring an "M" visa arranged by the partner.
- zkhalique 12y ago
  Why double tax? By whom?

seanmcdirmid 12y ago

So much is wrong here. There is a difference between what people do and what they are technically allowed to do. Enforcement is also quite difficult if you are working under the radar. Non immigration business visas don't allow you to do more than attend trainng and meetings, this includes wavers. Now, you might code, that is technically illegal, but they probably won't catch you. But for gods sake, if the immigration officer asks you what you will do, or what you did, just say "attend meetings and training," or you'll be deported so fast you won't know what happened (especially in the US and Switzerland). It might not matter so much going from Ireland to Redmond, but going to Redmond it's a huge Pain in the ass, so much so that we have visa training for employees that do it (I work for Microsoft china) to make sure that US laws are followed (thankfully, I'm a US citizen, but unfortunately that also means I'm subject to double tax whenever I work in the states).

_delirium 12y ago
Interesting. My dad used to work for BP, and their lawyers were of the opinion that short-term engineering exchanges between the US and EU, either between corporate offices or to/from their engineering contractors, qualified as visa-waiver business travel. I wouldn't think they'd be trying to fly under the radar, since BP is a huge company that's often subject to regulatory scrutiny, but who knows. As far as I can find, the exemption is somewhat broader than just training, and also includes "business meetings" and meetings for the purpose of contract negotiation/supervision. The thing the lawyers were really worried about was any kind of on-site visit to an operating plant, but that was for reasons of health/safety law, not immigration law. The non-operating engineering staff (local or foreign) had specific rules about what they couldn't do, so they wouldn't count as "operating" the plant, or get remotely implicated in anything safety-related. But for visits between corporate offices, they were very un-worried. Even visits to their Chinese joint-venture partner were pretty hassle-free, just requiring an "M" visa arranged by the partner.
zkhalique 12y ago
Why double tax? By whom?