5 ms·

Pick a college town and rent an apartment, optionally with a roommate. In much of the American midwest this implies an all-in rent & utilities expense in the $

by patio11 12y ago

Pick a college town and rent an apartment, optionally with a roommate. In much of the American midwest this implies an all-in rent & utilities expense in the $500 range. If you wanted to try something more exotic, you can do the digital nomad thing and rent somewhere in Thailand for ~$100 a month, but honestly as a programmer I feel that optimizing sub-$500 expenses is not the best use of one's time versus figuring out how to make money in a stable and hopefully increasing-over-time fashion. I understand the aesthetic appeal of going off the grid but if you wouldn't get a job as an electrician or day laborer which paid $400 a month then you shouldn't take on any major construction project to save $400 a month.

csallen 12y ago
> I feel that optimizing sub-$500 expenses is not the best use of one's time versus figuring out how to make money Second this. You can only save so much, but there's practically no upper limit on how much you can make. Plus making money is more fun than saving it. Saving generally requires sacrifices that decrease your quality of life. And there are diminishing returns, so you'll need to make ever-bigger sacrifices as continue to decrease your spending.
- format997 12y ago
  I definitely agree with this. I'm just exploring the concept because I have problems that occasionally limit how much I can work - and just playing around with cheaper living arrangements that also work with that. Though, if I can find ways to make a lot of money without working a lot, that would also solve the problem.
- mandeepj 12y ago
  I third this but the problem is it is easier to save the dollar that you already have in your hand than finding a new way to make it. So it is good to cut down on expenses without sacrificing much on life style
  - andrewtbham 12y ago
    A lot of people agree. It's called division of labor. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_of_labour http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_of_labour
- jblok 12y ago
  The danger is that increasing your income often leads people to spend more on higher quality things that they might not need, thus forcing you to work longer, or to make even more money. The trick is to be happy living well within your means, even if that means a lower quality of life than you could afford (but not a low quality of life)
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
maratd 12y ago
> if you wouldn't get a job as an electrician or day laborer which paid $400 a month then you shouldn't take on any major construction project to save $400 a month We're engineers. We enjoy building things. All sorts of things. I wouldn't do it all the time, but why not try your hand at building yourself a house? Not as a means to save money, but as a hobby, an interesting project, something fun?
- patio11 12y ago
  All the respect in the world for someone who wants to stride out into the wilderness and build a hobbit hole with their own two hands. If one enjoys it or finds it aesthetically appealing, great. If one simply wants to improve one's family's financial situation, trade solutions to business problems for money then trade money for living space, which is available from specialized providers who enjoy substantial economies of scale and technologically-induced productivity advantages over you.
  - maratd 12y ago
    > All the respect in the world for someone who wants to stride out into the wilderness and build a hobbit hole with their own two hands. Okaaay ... not where I was going. I suppose you can do that. You can also build yourself an office in your backyard, which is what I'm going to do in a few months. Won't save me any money, but I expect it to be fun. I feel sorry for those who can only think in dollars and cents. Not everything is about maximizing utility. You're allowed to have fun. You can even have fun improving one's financial situation.
    - HeyLaughingBoy 12y ago
      It probably will. I'm building a small 8x12 framed shed (should have been done by now but life intervenes...). I doubt it will end up costing me more than about $750 all in. Whereas, the 12x24 pole construction lean-to I had built by a "contractor" 8 years ago cost about $3k back then. And pole buildings are expected to be cheap DIY can definitely save money. I'll probably build another 8x12 building in the next 24 months, but this one will be designed as an office with insulation, power, etc and likely cost a lot more than $750.
gexla 12y ago
For sure. Even Mr Money Mustache lives on around 24K per year. One of the problems with a focus on living cheap is that the rest of the world is still expensive. You can find ways to live super cheap, but medical is still outrageous. Traveling to an expensive city will still take a large chunk out of a small income. Your focus should be on increasing options. That's probably making more money. You can make a decision to go cheap on the fly, but substantially increasing your savings takes time. As you get older, this may become even more difficult.
- rmc 12y ago
  One of the problems with a focus on living cheap is that the rest of the world is still expensive. You can find ways to live super cheap, but medical is still outrageous Or technology. A new iPhone isn't cheaper in Thailand.
andyjdavis 12y ago
>If you wanted to try something more exotic, you can do the digital nomad thing and rent somewhere in Thailand for ~$100 a month, I feel like I should point out that getting something that cheap in Thailand is difficult and certainly will not be pretty. I have previously lived in Thailand for just under a year and then gone on to be a digital nomad for three years and counting, mostly in south east Asia. Its pretty trivial to live on 800-1200/month in Thailand and I have known people to get it down to $500/month but there is a floor there that, to go under, you would likely need to move somewhere very remote that is likely to have an unreliable electricity supply and probably won't have an existing net connection or a telephone line for you to get access to the net. It would help to speak reasonable Thai too as you will be living somewhere well away from the touristy bits of Thailand where the English speakers tend to congregate. Now, that isn't to say that its impossible. I know someone who, at one point, was living on the outskirts of Siem Reap (Cambodia) for $200/month total. $80/month of that was rent. Firstly, he is an extremely experienced nomad. Secondly, that involved living in an old wooden house with no airconditioning (Cambodia gets brutally hot) and walking across town to use the wifi at KFC. It worked for him because he was working on a book so he only required sporadic net access. He is also from the Philippines and grew up without air conditioning so apparently the heat and humidity was bearable for him. Personally I find not having aircon in the tropics a really quick way to take your productivity to zero. Thirdly, to keep his costs that low an enormous proportion of his diet was made up of boiled rice with token amounts of vegetables. When he went to KFC he would purchase a single piece of chicken so they wouldn't kick him out and so his diet contained some protein. Handy if you want to lose weight I guess but tightly restricting your vegetable and protein intake is otherwise not particularly healthy. Anyhow, just wanted to point out that "rent somewhere in Thailand for ~$100 a month" isn't something you are just going to walk off the plane and arrange without making some very serious health and lifestyle sacrifices.
- patio11 12y ago
  Thanks for the clarification. I was just quoting the number somebody quoted me yesterday, and he has about as many years/savvy invested into Thailand as I have in Japan.
- hackerboos 12y ago
unimportant 12y ago
$100 in Chiang Mai is possible for nothing fancy, but only if you speak thai. A fresh of the boat foreigner will pay $250 rock bottom without thai skills for a very basic apartment. Visa costs are at least $50 a month and you'll also need a scooter or deal with pickup taxis, which will add about $80-120 to the expenses unless you enjoy walking or cycling through the heat on roads not made for either of that. Tokyo is much better value imo, as central parts are easily walkable and the yen is really cheap, so the costs work out roughly the same as in Thailand with the added benefit of living in a first world country. A room in a shared apartment in central Tokyo can easily be had for 50k yen which is about $400 right now. $600 will get you an unfurnished apartment in Ikeburo or so.
- seanmcdirmid 12y ago
  Japan is much more strict than Thailand on immigration laws, be careful about that. They also have no problem with throwing foreigners into jail, whereas Thailand will usually just deport you for visa violations. Japanese companies also send young Japanese kids to work in Bangkok call centers, since they can pay them less there (the cost of living is lower? They would never dream of having non-Japanese staff the call center, BTW).
  - unimportant 12y ago
    If you're from western Europe you can easily get a 1 year working holiday visa and go from there. Staying in Thailand beyond 1 year these days legally is also difficult, so it works out the same. I have never heard about the call center thing and doubt it, but there are plenty of japanese expats in Bangkok that arguably get a lot more work done than 2-3 thais would do at an overall equal cost. Thailand is really not much cheaper than Japan these days for a foreigner who doesn't speak the language, but it remains a developing country.
    - seanmcdirmid 12y ago
      > I have never heard about the call center thing and doubt it Well: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/22/business/global/22outsource.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/22/business/global/22outsourc... Bangkok is quite a bit cheaper than Tokyo. And there is a huge Japanese expat population as a result. > Thailand is really not much cheaper than Japan these days for a foreigner who doesn't speak the language, but it remains a developing country. I would agree that Thailand is not as cheap as people think it is, but looking at what my friends in Japan pay (not even in Tokyo!), I doubt cost of living in Japan is comparable to cost of living in Thailand.

by patio11 12y ago

csallen 12y ago

> I feel that optimizing sub-$500 expenses is not the best use of one's time versus figuring out how to make money Second this. You can only save so much, but there's practically no upper limit on how much you can make. Plus making money is more fun than saving it. Saving generally requires sacrifices that decrease your quality of life. And there are diminishing returns, so you'll need to make ever-bigger sacrifices as continue to decrease your spending.

format997 12y ago
I definitely agree with this. I'm just exploring the concept because I have problems that occasionally limit how much I can work - and just playing around with cheaper living arrangements that also work with that. Though, if I can find ways to make a lot of money without working a lot, that would also solve the problem.
mandeepj 12y ago
I third this but the problem is it is easier to save the dollar that you already have in your hand than finding a new way to make it. So it is good to cut down on expenses without sacrificing much on life style
- andrewtbham 12y ago
  A lot of people agree. It's called division of labor. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_of_labour http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_of_labour
jblok 12y ago
The danger is that increasing your income often leads people to spend more on higher quality things that they might not need, thus forcing you to work longer, or to make even more money. The trick is to be happy living well within your means, even if that means a lower quality of life than you could afford (but not a low quality of life)
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]

maratd 12y ago

> if you wouldn't get a job as an electrician or day laborer which paid $400 a month then you shouldn't take on any major construction project to save $400 a month We're engineers. We enjoy building things. All sorts of things. I wouldn't do it all the time, but why not try your hand at building yourself a house? Not as a means to save money, but as a hobby, an interesting project, something fun?

patio11 12y ago
All the respect in the world for someone who wants to stride out into the wilderness and build a hobbit hole with their own two hands. If one enjoys it or finds it aesthetically appealing, great. If one simply wants to improve one's family's financial situation, trade solutions to business problems for money then trade money for living space, which is available from specialized providers who enjoy substantial economies of scale and technologically-induced productivity advantages over you.
- maratd 12y ago
  > All the respect in the world for someone who wants to stride out into the wilderness and build a hobbit hole with their own two hands. Okaaay ... not where I was going. I suppose you can do that. You can also build yourself an office in your backyard, which is what I'm going to do in a few months. Won't save me any money, but I expect it to be fun. I feel sorry for those who can only think in dollars and cents. Not everything is about maximizing utility. You're allowed to have fun. You can even have fun improving one's financial situation.
  - HeyLaughingBoy 12y ago
    It probably will. I'm building a small 8x12 framed shed (should have been done by now but life intervenes...). I doubt it will end up costing me more than about $750 all in. Whereas, the 12x24 pole construction lean-to I had built by a "contractor" 8 years ago cost about $3k back then. And pole buildings are expected to be cheap DIY can definitely save money. I'll probably build another 8x12 building in the next 24 months, but this one will be designed as an office with insulation, power, etc and likely cost a lot more than $750.

gexla 12y ago

For sure. Even Mr Money Mustache lives on around 24K per year. One of the problems with a focus on living cheap is that the rest of the world is still expensive. You can find ways to live super cheap, but medical is still outrageous. Traveling to an expensive city will still take a large chunk out of a small income. Your focus should be on increasing options. That's probably making more money. You can make a decision to go cheap on the fly, but substantially increasing your savings takes time. As you get older, this may become even more difficult.

rmc 12y ago
One of the problems with a focus on living cheap is that the rest of the world is still expensive. You can find ways to live super cheap, but medical is still outrageous Or technology. A new iPhone isn't cheaper in Thailand.

andyjdavis 12y ago

>If you wanted to try something more exotic, you can do the digital nomad thing and rent somewhere in Thailand for ~$100 a month, I feel like I should point out that getting something that cheap in Thailand is difficult and certainly will not be pretty. I have previously lived in Thailand for just under a year and then gone on to be a digital nomad for three years and counting, mostly in south east Asia. Its pretty trivial to live on 800-1200/month in Thailand and I have known people to get it down to $500/month but there is a floor there that, to go under, you would likely need to move somewhere very remote that is likely to have an unreliable electricity supply and probably won't have an existing net connection or a telephone line for you to get access to the net. It would help to speak reasonable Thai too as you will be living somewhere well away from the touristy bits of Thailand where the English speakers tend to congregate. Now, that isn't to say that its impossible. I know someone who, at one point, was living on the outskirts of Siem Reap (Cambodia) for $200/month total. $80/month of that was rent. Firstly, he is an extremely experienced nomad. Secondly, that involved living in an old wooden house with no airconditioning (Cambodia gets brutally hot) and walking across town to use the wifi at KFC. It worked for him because he was working on a book so he only required sporadic net access. He is also from the Philippines and grew up without air conditioning so apparently the heat and humidity was bearable for him. Personally I find not having aircon in the tropics a really quick way to take your productivity to zero. Thirdly, to keep his costs that low an enormous proportion of his diet was made up of boiled rice with token amounts of vegetables. When he went to KFC he would purchase a single piece of chicken so they wouldn't kick him out and so his diet contained some protein. Handy if you want to lose weight I guess but tightly restricting your vegetable and protein intake is otherwise not particularly healthy. Anyhow, just wanted to point out that "rent somewhere in Thailand for ~$100 a month" isn't something you are just going to walk off the plane and arrange without making some very serious health and lifestyle sacrifices.

patio11 12y ago
Thanks for the clarification. I was just quoting the number somebody quoted me yesterday, and he has about as many years/savvy invested into Thailand as I have in Japan.
hackerboos 12y ago

unimportant 12y ago

$100 in Chiang Mai is possible for nothing fancy, but only if you speak thai. A fresh of the boat foreigner will pay $250 rock bottom without thai skills for a very basic apartment. Visa costs are at least $50 a month and you'll also need a scooter or deal with pickup taxis, which will add about $80-120 to the expenses unless you enjoy walking or cycling through the heat on roads not made for either of that. Tokyo is much better value imo, as central parts are easily walkable and the yen is really cheap, so the costs work out roughly the same as in Thailand with the added benefit of living in a first world country. A room in a shared apartment in central Tokyo can easily be had for 50k yen which is about $400 right now. $600 will get you an unfurnished apartment in Ikeburo or so.

seanmcdirmid 12y ago
Japan is much more strict than Thailand on immigration laws, be careful about that. They also have no problem with throwing foreigners into jail, whereas Thailand will usually just deport you for visa violations. Japanese companies also send young Japanese kids to work in Bangkok call centers, since they can pay them less there (the cost of living is lower? They would never dream of having non-Japanese staff the call center, BTW).
- unimportant 12y ago
  If you're from western Europe you can easily get a 1 year working holiday visa and go from there. Staying in Thailand beyond 1 year these days legally is also difficult, so it works out the same. I have never heard about the call center thing and doubt it, but there are plenty of japanese expats in Bangkok that arguably get a lot more work done than 2-3 thais would do at an overall equal cost. Thailand is really not much cheaper than Japan these days for a foreigner who doesn't speak the language, but it remains a developing country.
  - seanmcdirmid 12y ago
    > I have never heard about the call center thing and doubt it Well: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/22/business/global/22outsource.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/22/business/global/22outsourc... Bangkok is quite a bit cheaper than Tokyo. And there is a huge Japanese expat population as a result. > Thailand is really not much cheaper than Japan these days for a foreigner who doesn't speak the language, but it remains a developing country. I would agree that Thailand is not as cheap as people think it is, but looking at what my friends in Japan pay (not even in Tokyo!), I doubt cost of living in Japan is comparable to cost of living in Thailand.