18 ms·

Well that clinches my decision. I've been getting around on public transit for quite a long time, but have been thinking of getting a car. Now I've decided no

Well that clinches my decision. I've been getting around on public transit for quite a long time, but have been thinking of getting a car. Now I've decided not to. I'm a generally law-abiding citizen, but I simply do not wish to be tracked. How would you feel were someone to follow you around everywhere you went? Even if they kept their distance, never spoke to you our overtly harmed you in any way, it would be very disturbing.

handinmouth 12y ago
> How would you feel were someone to follow you around everywhere you went? On the Web, this happens already (try a browser add-on such as RequestPolicy which will show you the numerous sites that track you all over the Web - often 20 or more per page).
- MichaelCrawford 12y ago
  That I find particularly creepy, so I blackhole many of the analytics servers with my /etc/hosts: 127.0.0.1 hosted-pixel.com 127.0.0.1 cdn.hosted-pixel.com When web bugs first appeared, there was a huge public outcry. Now that they call it "analytics" or "big data" everyone seems cool with it. However I can't block everything with hosts; some of the tracking scripts come from the same hosts as I actually use. I'm planning to write a firefox addon which will do stuff like remove the Facebook "Like" buttons. Even if I don't click the button, Facebook knows that it served me the script.
  - maxerickson 12y ago
    Ad block rules like this block content except on the home site: ||twitter.$domain=~twitter.com Additional domains can be unblocked: ||twitter.$domain=~twitter.com|~another.com
    - MichaelCrawford 12y ago
      Hey thanks - I owe you one.
  - Panino 12y ago
    > Even if I don't click the button, Facebook knows that it served me the script. You can stop a lot of trackers by minimizing referer leaks. Firefox has the config option network.http.sendRefererHeader which defaults to 2, "always send referer." 1=same FQDN, 0=never send. So by setting it to 0 or 1, a typical tracker that's gotten past your /etc/hosts entries, adblock, etc. will see you requesting their pixel image but never see the sites that initiated those HTTP GETs. There are no silver bullets, just good tools, and reducing the referer footprint is one of them.
  - JetSpiegel 12y ago
    You can use Policeman https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/policeman/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/policeman/ Or on Github for a more bleeding-edge version https://github.com/futpib/policeman/releases https://github.com/futpib/policeman/releases
    - dfc 12y ago
      I have always loved requestpolicy but for some reason something about RPContinued makes me nervous. Policeman would be a great alternative if Sync worked[^1]. I cant use policeman if it means I have to jump through the same hoops on every firefox installation in order to get things set up. [^1]: https://github.com/futpib/policeman/issues/28 https://github.com/futpib/policeman/issues/28 Plus issues 92 and 95.
      - hrjet 12y ago
        Thanks to @JetSpiegel I just became aware of Policeman. And I am not sure why you are nervous about RPContinued. So, I went ahead and created a wiki for this: https://github.com/UprootLabs/gngr/wiki/List-of-request-blocking-software https://github.com/UprootLabs/gngr/wiki/List-of-request-bloc... If there are any known issues with RPContinued or there are other extensions that are not listed, please feel free to add them. Thanks.
        dfc 12y ago
        What is the mysterious "switchboard" column?
        MichaelCrawford 12y ago
        That's used by the phone company to patch you into the NSA.
        hrjet 12y ago
        The name for the concept comes from the name of the HTTP-SwitchBoard extension (predecessor to uMatrix). It's skeuomorphic. The extensions which have a switchboard like interface enable the user to block requests based on the request's domain name, the primary frame's domain-name, and also the type of request. In contrast, extensions like NoScript have a global switch. If I allow scripts from DontBeEvil.com, they are enabled on all domains. They don't prevent XSS attacks, for example. If there's a better name for this concept, please do suggest one.
  - singold 12y ago
    Maybe EFF's Privacy Badger could help? I use it and like it, you can unblock individual scripts on a per page basis. https://www.eff.org/privacybadger https://www.eff.org/privacybadger
  - asuffield 12y ago
    > Now that they call it "analytics" or "big data" everyone seems cool with it. It generates massive value that everybody benefits from. People appreciate that.
    - pdkl95 12y ago
      I wonder how much real value is actually generated from web bugs. A lot of interesting stuff can be generated from server logs; much more if you use analyzers. I just wonder how much of the set of "analytics" that requires involving 3rd parties (web bugs and other referrer tricks) is actually useful and a value. The set that is a value "that everybody benefits from" is going to be even smaller. I'm sure most people want this data, and see a lot of potential use. Usually, there is a big difference between "want" and "need", and I suspect a lot of the current attitude that throws analytics on everything is some experimentation, a limited amount of real value, and a whole lot of people joining in because they can (fad, bandwagon effect, it's what a tutorial said, etc).
      - MichaelCrawford 12y ago
        I spend a lot of time analyzing my own logs. I get a lot of value from it. I am completely cool with someone analyzing their own logs if I visit their site. What I'm not cool with, is them finding out what _other_ sites I visit. I regard the current focus on analytics as unduly obsessive. How much do you need to know about your customer to flog your products? Just because you can measure something, it doesn't mean that it's going to do anyone any good to measure it. I used to do direct mail; all we ever did was what today is known as A/B testing - we'd send "test drops" to different lists, with different prices, different wording in the offer letters and so on. It worked really well.
        pdkl95 12y ago
        To clarify my previous post, I'm totally fine with server-logs. As the 2nd-party to the conversation, the server has to know who the request is from, and can log it. These logs can certainly provide a lot of value. As you mention, I'm more concerned with tracking as a 3rd-party[1]. There is, obviously, at least some real benefit in these cases that would not be possible when only using server logs. It's probably a lot less than most people think. A lot of that data (or similar-enough data when measured in e.g. how much it benefits sales or makes marketing cheaper) can probably be found elsewhere. If we knew what the core benefits (needs, not wants), we might (in an ideal world) even be able to have some sort of social negotiation where the data can be provided in some form (or an alternative, or by making sure the real social cost is covered properly). [1] While the law currently doesn't work this way, involving a 3rd-party unauthorized should really be considered some new type of (criminal) wiretapping in states that require 2-party consent.
eterm 12y ago
Public transport is tracked too. TFL have removed the ability to use cash on busses now, you must use oyster cards.[1] [1] https://www.tfl.gov.uk/modes/buses/cash-free-buses https://www.tfl.gov.uk/modes/buses/cash-free-buses
- orf 12y ago
  Only in London and for good reason, having people pay by cash each stop takes up a ridiculous amount of time on popular routes.
  - eterm 12y ago
    Yeah, transport in London barely functioned until oyster cards were introduced! Also, I didn't claim that surveillance was the primary reason for oyster cards, but there is no doubt it also functions as an effective large surveillance network. As for other cities, transport isn't as centralised as it is in London so is vastly harder to implement, but for sure others are looking into similar schemes.
- EliRivers 12y ago
  That enables them to track the card, but not the person. The card does not have to be tied to a specific person. I suppose you could correlate known journeys someone made and work out which card is their's, or watch someone using the card on CCTV and use the timestamp to identify their card, or once you'd got someone in custody take their card and get their travel history, but if someone simply changes card (and pays cash for it) they vanish again.
  - jacquesm 12y ago
    Can you pay for those cards with cash? In NL they do everything possible to avoid you buying the cards with cash (and there is a surcharge for disposables).
    - lozf 12y ago
      You can pay a GBP5 "deposit", which is inconvenient to get back without registering, but cash top-ups are available from machines and ticket offices under certain circumstances. Also, like with most things these days, we're sold on the convenience that registering adds i.e. no loss of funds if lost or stolen, and "auto top up" from your registered credit / debit card... most people don't care enough to pay an extra GBP5 to make their transport history "disappear" every so often - especially when there are so many other ways we're tracked.
Theodores 12y ago
You need a bicycle. Then you can ride the exact same route every day at exactly the same time wearing the same high visibility clothing that you wear every day, decorated 'Christmas tree' style in flashing lights. Just to make things easier for those that might track you, cruise along at 10-20 miles per hour, obeying the Highway Code every inch of the way. Ah, but what about the mobile phone? You don't need that turned on whilst cycling. In fact, if you are used to babysitting the battery it makes sense to turn it off just for practicality reasons. Ah, but what about the CCTV? Look at the route options, there is bound to be a park or canal tow path to take and, as well as a nice car-free ride you get to expose yourself to far fewer CCTV operators, although total CCTV absence is unlikely. Even then though, options are pretty good. You might take that 'winter warmer' coat off part way through your route. Or that bright yellow jacket is kind of ubiquitous, 'hard to spot' amongst the hordes of other cyclists with the same jacket. You can also legitimately completely cover your face with mask, sunglasses and helmet. Even listening for a cyclist is not exactly easy, particularly if you don't let that tell-tell freewheel announce your presence (keep pedalling). In not one film in the entire history of Hollywood has the bad guy/good guy evaded getting caught due to the simple tactic of riding a bicycle at a leisurely pace. So there just isn't even the group-think out there to suspect the cyclist. Nobody expects the cyclist!
roel_v 12y ago
In a few years there will be enough processing power to do facial recognition that will be accurate let's say 90% or so of the time. More than enough to track you everywhere where there is public transport.
- mrec 12y ago
  Masks. They're terribly comfortable. I think everyone will be wearing them in the future.
- MichaelCrawford 12y ago
  Beards cause trouble for facial regulation. While I expect bears are the focus of much research, one way to screw with the system is to grow a beard for your ID photo, then shave it off - or vice-versa. However, women don't generally have beards, so I expect that facial recognition is more effective at identifying them than us men.
  - carapace 12y ago
    There are frequencies that reflect from skin but not beards. I suffer from paranoia myself. I've been thinking for more than twenty-five years about how to handle this and the only thing I can come up with is that we must make our control systems good or devolve into some nightmare scenario.
  - roel_v 12y ago
    Such a system won't need a single ID photo as 'reference'. When it notices someone leaving a house on Wisteria Lane 2401, and walking into an office on 21 Main Street, and there are postal packages send to John Smith on Wisteria Lane 2401 and social security contributions for employee John Smith by an employer registered at 21 Main Street, it doesn't take much to put 2 and 2 together and conclude that the face of that person is that of John Smith. And that's just 2 data points - think about it, how many things are there that tie a person to a name and a location? How irregular are people's movements really? Apart from putting on another mask every day, and moving house every few days, given enough processing power and some time that future system will recognize all but the most determined individuals - although I don't see how anyone can live a 'normal' life without a fixed address, job, phone, internet use, and 0 tolerance for anything that resembles a 'routine'.
lozf 12y ago
I guess it depends where you are but UK cities are right up there with surveillance on public transport too, both trains and buses[0]. Transport for London have a system that detects if you're still on a platform after a train to each destination has departed, and alerts a human - ostensibly in case you're contemplating suicide or otherwise need help. It stands to reason that implementing the likes of facial recognition and "Gait DNA"[1] is high on the agenda if not already functional. Not to mention the huge incentives (>50% discount) for using a traceable RFID card as your "ticket" instead of paying with cash. [0] http://boingboing.net/2009/08/31/london-bus-with-16-c.html http://boingboing.net/2009/08/31/london-bus-with-16-c.html from 2009 - newer buses, e.g. the 2012 "new" routemaster may well have more. [1] http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/6995061.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspon... from 2007.
- RossM 12y ago
  Got a source on the face-recognition-after-departure? That's a really interesting idea and I'd like to read more.
  - lozf 12y ago
    I saw a video / TV program where they talked about it a few years back... possibly in the BBC series called "The Tube"(2012)[0]. As I recall it wasn't doing actual facial recognition, but object / shape recognition, and comparing the objects in an area over time. So you'd have the outline of a person sitting on a bench and if they're still there after all destinations served by that platform (obviously depending on the line) have had at least one train, it'd be flagged up as suspicious as apparently some jumpers like to contemplate first. Of course there must be a fair few false positives - people waiting to meet friends to either travel together or head out maybe etc, heck - I've even met someone to buy a laptop on a tube platform before... and I don't know how well it would cope if the person moved about between trains - but that didn't seem to matter much for their use case, and I'm sure they must have better tech in place by now. Sorry I can't be more precise with a source, but I'll let you know if I find anything helpful. [0] http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01cmsfd/episodes/guide http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01cmsfd/episodes/guide
MichaelCrawford 12y ago
"Just because you're paranoid it doesn't mean they aren't really out to get you." I have Bipolar-Type Schizoaffective Disorder. It's much like being manic-depressive and schizophrenic at the same time. One of the schizophrenic symptoms is paranoia; if the paranoia gets bad enough, I have visual hallucinations as well. Having all this surveillance going on, even to the extent I am assured they're not looking for me, makes my illness far worse. It doesn't help to take more medicine. I would be very interested to see a comparison of psychiatric hospitalization rates from before and after Snowden's disclosures. It's not hard to get such statistics but it would be some work to interpret them meaningfully.
ycitm 12y ago
Did you see the "Secure Beneath the Watchful Eyes" adverts? Pretty scary: http://imgur.com/oR4iFYs http://imgur.com/oR4iFYs
- MichaelCrawford 12y ago
  The artistic style of that image looks just like Soviet propaganda.
  - TsiCClawOfLight 12y ago
    Or Sci-fi propaganda in a typical tyrannical setting.
DanBC 12y ago
Your tickets are linked to your identity (unless you pay cash and don't get season tickets) and bus companies have an interest in collecting data about where you travel. Bus tickets need a lot of information for auditing. Also, In England we have CCTV on the buses. I'll take a photo next time I get a bus but there are about 5 cameras on the top deck.

handinmouth 12y ago

> How would you feel were someone to follow you around everywhere you went? On the Web, this happens already (try a browser add-on such as RequestPolicy which will show you the numerous sites that track you all over the Web - often 20 or more per page).

MichaelCrawford 12y ago
That I find particularly creepy, so I blackhole many of the analytics servers with my /etc/hosts: 127.0.0.1 hosted-pixel.com 127.0.0.1 cdn.hosted-pixel.com When web bugs first appeared, there was a huge public outcry. Now that they call it "analytics" or "big data" everyone seems cool with it. However I can't block everything with hosts; some of the tracking scripts come from the same hosts as I actually use. I'm planning to write a firefox addon which will do stuff like remove the Facebook "Like" buttons. Even if I don't click the button, Facebook knows that it served me the script.
- maxerickson 12y ago
  Ad block rules like this block content except on the home site: ||twitter.$domain=~twitter.com Additional domains can be unblocked: ||twitter.$domain=~twitter.com|~another.com
  - MichaelCrawford 12y ago
    Hey thanks - I owe you one.
- Panino 12y ago
  > Even if I don't click the button, Facebook knows that it served me the script. You can stop a lot of trackers by minimizing referer leaks. Firefox has the config option network.http.sendRefererHeader which defaults to 2, "always send referer." 1=same FQDN, 0=never send. So by setting it to 0 or 1, a typical tracker that's gotten past your /etc/hosts entries, adblock, etc. will see you requesting their pixel image but never see the sites that initiated those HTTP GETs. There are no silver bullets, just good tools, and reducing the referer footprint is one of them.
- JetSpiegel 12y ago
  You can use Policeman https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/policeman/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/policeman/ Or on Github for a more bleeding-edge version https://github.com/futpib/policeman/releases https://github.com/futpib/policeman/releases
  - dfc 12y ago
    I have always loved requestpolicy but for some reason something about RPContinued makes me nervous. Policeman would be a great alternative if Sync worked[^1]. I cant use policeman if it means I have to jump through the same hoops on every firefox installation in order to get things set up. [^1]: https://github.com/futpib/policeman/issues/28 https://github.com/futpib/policeman/issues/28 Plus issues 92 and 95.
    - hrjet 12y ago
      Thanks to @JetSpiegel I just became aware of Policeman. And I am not sure why you are nervous about RPContinued. So, I went ahead and created a wiki for this: https://github.com/UprootLabs/gngr/wiki/List-of-request-blocking-software https://github.com/UprootLabs/gngr/wiki/List-of-request-bloc... If there are any known issues with RPContinued or there are other extensions that are not listed, please feel free to add them. Thanks.
      - dfc 12y ago
        What is the mysterious "switchboard" column?
        MichaelCrawford 12y ago
        That's used by the phone company to patch you into the NSA.
        hrjet 12y ago
        The name for the concept comes from the name of the HTTP-SwitchBoard extension (predecessor to uMatrix). It's skeuomorphic. The extensions which have a switchboard like interface enable the user to block requests based on the request's domain name, the primary frame's domain-name, and also the type of request. In contrast, extensions like NoScript have a global switch. If I allow scripts from DontBeEvil.com, they are enabled on all domains. They don't prevent XSS attacks, for example. If there's a better name for this concept, please do suggest one.
- singold 12y ago
  Maybe EFF's Privacy Badger could help? I use it and like it, you can unblock individual scripts on a per page basis. https://www.eff.org/privacybadger https://www.eff.org/privacybadger
- asuffield 12y ago
  > Now that they call it "analytics" or "big data" everyone seems cool with it. It generates massive value that everybody benefits from. People appreciate that.
  - pdkl95 12y ago
    I wonder how much real value is actually generated from web bugs. A lot of interesting stuff can be generated from server logs; much more if you use analyzers. I just wonder how much of the set of "analytics" that requires involving 3rd parties (web bugs and other referrer tricks) is actually useful and a value. The set that is a value "that everybody benefits from" is going to be even smaller. I'm sure most people want this data, and see a lot of potential use. Usually, there is a big difference between "want" and "need", and I suspect a lot of the current attitude that throws analytics on everything is some experimentation, a limited amount of real value, and a whole lot of people joining in because they can (fad, bandwagon effect, it's what a tutorial said, etc).
    - MichaelCrawford 12y ago
      I spend a lot of time analyzing my own logs. I get a lot of value from it. I am completely cool with someone analyzing their own logs if I visit their site. What I'm not cool with, is them finding out what _other_ sites I visit. I regard the current focus on analytics as unduly obsessive. How much do you need to know about your customer to flog your products? Just because you can measure something, it doesn't mean that it's going to do anyone any good to measure it. I used to do direct mail; all we ever did was what today is known as A/B testing - we'd send "test drops" to different lists, with different prices, different wording in the offer letters and so on. It worked really well.
      - pdkl95 12y ago
        To clarify my previous post, I'm totally fine with server-logs. As the 2nd-party to the conversation, the server has to know who the request is from, and can log it. These logs can certainly provide a lot of value. As you mention, I'm more concerned with tracking as a 3rd-party[1]. There is, obviously, at least some real benefit in these cases that would not be possible when only using server logs. It's probably a lot less than most people think. A lot of that data (or similar-enough data when measured in e.g. how much it benefits sales or makes marketing cheaper) can probably be found elsewhere. If we knew what the core benefits (needs, not wants), we might (in an ideal world) even be able to have some sort of social negotiation where the data can be provided in some form (or an alternative, or by making sure the real social cost is covered properly). [1] While the law currently doesn't work this way, involving a 3rd-party unauthorized should really be considered some new type of (criminal) wiretapping in states that require 2-party consent.

eterm 12y ago

Public transport is tracked too. TFL have removed the ability to use cash on busses now, you must use oyster cards.[1] [1] https://www.tfl.gov.uk/modes/buses/cash-free-buses https://www.tfl.gov.uk/modes/buses/cash-free-buses

orf 12y ago
Only in London and for good reason, having people pay by cash each stop takes up a ridiculous amount of time on popular routes.
- eterm 12y ago
  Yeah, transport in London barely functioned until oyster cards were introduced! Also, I didn't claim that surveillance was the primary reason for oyster cards, but there is no doubt it also functions as an effective large surveillance network. As for other cities, transport isn't as centralised as it is in London so is vastly harder to implement, but for sure others are looking into similar schemes.
EliRivers 12y ago
That enables them to track the card, but not the person. The card does not have to be tied to a specific person. I suppose you could correlate known journeys someone made and work out which card is their's, or watch someone using the card on CCTV and use the timestamp to identify their card, or once you'd got someone in custody take their card and get their travel history, but if someone simply changes card (and pays cash for it) they vanish again.
- jacquesm 12y ago
  Can you pay for those cards with cash? In NL they do everything possible to avoid you buying the cards with cash (and there is a surcharge for disposables).
  - lozf 12y ago
    You can pay a GBP5 "deposit", which is inconvenient to get back without registering, but cash top-ups are available from machines and ticket offices under certain circumstances. Also, like with most things these days, we're sold on the convenience that registering adds i.e. no loss of funds if lost or stolen, and "auto top up" from your registered credit / debit card... most people don't care enough to pay an extra GBP5 to make their transport history "disappear" every so often - especially when there are so many other ways we're tracked.

Theodores 12y ago

You need a bicycle. Then you can ride the exact same route every day at exactly the same time wearing the same high visibility clothing that you wear every day, decorated 'Christmas tree' style in flashing lights. Just to make things easier for those that might track you, cruise along at 10-20 miles per hour, obeying the Highway Code every inch of the way. Ah, but what about the mobile phone? You don't need that turned on whilst cycling. In fact, if you are used to babysitting the battery it makes sense to turn it off just for practicality reasons. Ah, but what about the CCTV? Look at the route options, there is bound to be a park or canal tow path to take and, as well as a nice car-free ride you get to expose yourself to far fewer CCTV operators, although total CCTV absence is unlikely. Even then though, options are pretty good. You might take that 'winter warmer' coat off part way through your route. Or that bright yellow jacket is kind of ubiquitous, 'hard to spot' amongst the hordes of other cyclists with the same jacket. You can also legitimately completely cover your face with mask, sunglasses and helmet. Even listening for a cyclist is not exactly easy, particularly if you don't let that tell-tell freewheel announce your presence (keep pedalling). In not one film in the entire history of Hollywood has the bad guy/good guy evaded getting caught due to the simple tactic of riding a bicycle at a leisurely pace. So there just isn't even the group-think out there to suspect the cyclist. Nobody expects the cyclist!

roel_v 12y ago

In a few years there will be enough processing power to do facial recognition that will be accurate let's say 90% or so of the time. More than enough to track you everywhere where there is public transport.

mrec 12y ago
Masks. They're terribly comfortable. I think everyone will be wearing them in the future.
MichaelCrawford 12y ago
Beards cause trouble for facial regulation. While I expect bears are the focus of much research, one way to screw with the system is to grow a beard for your ID photo, then shave it off - or vice-versa. However, women don't generally have beards, so I expect that facial recognition is more effective at identifying them than us men.
- carapace 12y ago
  There are frequencies that reflect from skin but not beards. I suffer from paranoia myself. I've been thinking for more than twenty-five years about how to handle this and the only thing I can come up with is that we must make our control systems good or devolve into some nightmare scenario.
- roel_v 12y ago
  Such a system won't need a single ID photo as 'reference'. When it notices someone leaving a house on Wisteria Lane 2401, and walking into an office on 21 Main Street, and there are postal packages send to John Smith on Wisteria Lane 2401 and social security contributions for employee John Smith by an employer registered at 21 Main Street, it doesn't take much to put 2 and 2 together and conclude that the face of that person is that of John Smith. And that's just 2 data points - think about it, how many things are there that tie a person to a name and a location? How irregular are people's movements really? Apart from putting on another mask every day, and moving house every few days, given enough processing power and some time that future system will recognize all but the most determined individuals - although I don't see how anyone can live a 'normal' life without a fixed address, job, phone, internet use, and 0 tolerance for anything that resembles a 'routine'.

lozf 12y ago

I guess it depends where you are but UK cities are right up there with surveillance on public transport too, both trains and buses[0]. Transport for London have a system that detects if you're still on a platform after a train to each destination has departed, and alerts a human - ostensibly in case you're contemplating suicide or otherwise need help. It stands to reason that implementing the likes of facial recognition and "Gait DNA"[1] is high on the agenda if not already functional. Not to mention the huge incentives (>50% discount) for using a traceable RFID card as your "ticket" instead of paying with cash. [0] http://boingboing.net/2009/08/31/london-bus-with-16-c.html http://boingboing.net/2009/08/31/london-bus-with-16-c.html from 2009 - newer buses, e.g. the 2012 "new" routemaster may well have more. [1] http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/6995061.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspon... from 2007.

RossM 12y ago
Got a source on the face-recognition-after-departure? That's a really interesting idea and I'd like to read more.
- lozf 12y ago
  I saw a video / TV program where they talked about it a few years back... possibly in the BBC series called "The Tube"(2012)[0]. As I recall it wasn't doing actual facial recognition, but object / shape recognition, and comparing the objects in an area over time. So you'd have the outline of a person sitting on a bench and if they're still there after all destinations served by that platform (obviously depending on the line) have had at least one train, it'd be flagged up as suspicious as apparently some jumpers like to contemplate first. Of course there must be a fair few false positives - people waiting to meet friends to either travel together or head out maybe etc, heck - I've even met someone to buy a laptop on a tube platform before... and I don't know how well it would cope if the person moved about between trains - but that didn't seem to matter much for their use case, and I'm sure they must have better tech in place by now. Sorry I can't be more precise with a source, but I'll let you know if I find anything helpful. [0] http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01cmsfd/episodes/guide http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01cmsfd/episodes/guide

MichaelCrawford 12y ago

"Just because you're paranoid it doesn't mean they aren't really out to get you." I have Bipolar-Type Schizoaffective Disorder. It's much like being manic-depressive and schizophrenic at the same time. One of the schizophrenic symptoms is paranoia; if the paranoia gets bad enough, I have visual hallucinations as well. Having all this surveillance going on, even to the extent I am assured they're not looking for me, makes my illness far worse. It doesn't help to take more medicine. I would be very interested to see a comparison of psychiatric hospitalization rates from before and after Snowden's disclosures. It's not hard to get such statistics but it would be some work to interpret them meaningfully.

ycitm 12y ago

Did you see the "Secure Beneath the Watchful Eyes" adverts? Pretty scary: http://imgur.com/oR4iFYs http://imgur.com/oR4iFYs

MichaelCrawford 12y ago
The artistic style of that image looks just like Soviet propaganda.
- TsiCClawOfLight 12y ago
  Or Sci-fi propaganda in a typical tyrannical setting.

DanBC 12y ago

Your tickets are linked to your identity (unless you pay cash and don't get season tickets) and bus companies have an interest in collecting data about where you travel. Bus tickets need a lot of information for auditing. Also, In England we have CCTV on the buses. I'll take a photo next time I get a bus but there are about 5 cameras on the top deck.