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I wasn't predicting a demise, just like I wouldn't predict the demise of C, COBOL, or other procedural languages. What I meant was is there a significant port

I wasn't predicting a demise, just like I wouldn't predict the demise of C, COBOL, or other procedural languages. What I meant was is there a significant portion of corporate decision makers that don't look at OO as the default programming methodology, than say 10 years ago? I'm actually pretty surprised at the uptake of Clojure, especially compared to Scala, which would intuitively be the next language for corporate adoption on the JVM. I think there are many developers and decision makers that are looking for simplicity now.

seanmcdirmid 12y ago
Do you have any numbers on Clojure vs. Scala adoption? The Clojure community is definitely vocal, but Scala has made a lot of successes also, and at this level of marketshare, it is difficult to say if they are equal, or if adoption is off by an order of magnitude. Scala in particular has done well in the systems community, oddly enough.
- destructaball 12y ago
  Anecdotally, I've been applying for jobs using Scala and Clojure in Australasia and Europe and the Scala jobs seem more numerous and far better paid
- mikerichards 12y ago
  I don't have any numbers, but given the relative youth of Clojure vs Scala, and the adoption that Clojure is getting, I'd say that the trajectory is pretty much on Clojure's side. And this is coming from someone that isn't particularly keen on s-expressions or dynamic typing. Like I said in my first comment, I'm pretty much amazed at the adoption of Clojure by some mainstream companies.
  - seanmcdirmid 12y ago
    Well, there is always http://xkcd.com/605/ http://xkcd.com/605/ When your base is high, adoption trajectories are pretty high, but level off fairly quickly. We still need a few years to tell what is actually going on.
    - seanmcdirmid 12y ago
      "base is high" should be "base is low". Trajectories level off over time.
  - mikerichards 12y ago
    Sean, I don't think that's really fair to either Scala or Clojure though. Yeah, both of their numbers are small potatoes next to Java or C#, but not insignicant...as in last week there was 4 Clojure users and now there's 16..OMG there's been a 400% jump!.
    - seanmcdirmid 12y ago
      We are talking about adoption rates between Scala and Clojure. When Scala was a few years old, I am arguing that its adoption rate was similar to what Clojure is experiencing today. So looking at the "current trajectory" doesn't tell the whole story. It is adoption over the long term that will tell us who has won (or is winning) the language wars. The xkcd cartoon is obviously exaggerated satire.

seanmcdirmid 12y ago

Do you have any numbers on Clojure vs. Scala adoption? The Clojure community is definitely vocal, but Scala has made a lot of successes also, and at this level of marketshare, it is difficult to say if they are equal, or if adoption is off by an order of magnitude. Scala in particular has done well in the systems community, oddly enough.

destructaball 12y ago
Anecdotally, I've been applying for jobs using Scala and Clojure in Australasia and Europe and the Scala jobs seem more numerous and far better paid
mikerichards 12y ago
I don't have any numbers, but given the relative youth of Clojure vs Scala, and the adoption that Clojure is getting, I'd say that the trajectory is pretty much on Clojure's side. And this is coming from someone that isn't particularly keen on s-expressions or dynamic typing. Like I said in my first comment, I'm pretty much amazed at the adoption of Clojure by some mainstream companies.
- seanmcdirmid 12y ago
  Well, there is always http://xkcd.com/605/ http://xkcd.com/605/ When your base is high, adoption trajectories are pretty high, but level off fairly quickly. We still need a few years to tell what is actually going on.
  - seanmcdirmid 12y ago
    "base is high" should be "base is low". Trajectories level off over time.
- mikerichards 12y ago
  Sean, I don't think that's really fair to either Scala or Clojure though. Yeah, both of their numbers are small potatoes next to Java or C#, but not insignicant...as in last week there was 4 Clojure users and now there's 16..OMG there's been a 400% jump!.
  - seanmcdirmid 12y ago
    We are talking about adoption rates between Scala and Clojure. When Scala was a few years old, I am arguing that its adoption rate was similar to what Clojure is experiencing today. So looking at the "current trajectory" doesn't tell the whole story. It is adoption over the long term that will tell us who has won (or is winning) the language wars. The xkcd cartoon is obviously exaggerated satire.