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The End of Gangs
- techwatching 12y agoI wonder to what degree technology has played a role. The article references gang taunting etc. via the internet instead of on the street - would be interesting to know to what degree social networks, video games, etc. have had an impact on gang activities, and also the degree to which drug sales have moved off the street - i.e.: you don't need people hanging on the corner to sell drugs anymore.
- balls187 12y ago> I wonder to what degree technology has played a role. Since 2008, other than smartphones, what has really changed in tech?
- toolz 12y agoOnline drug sales from sites like silk road, for one.
- noer 12y agoFrom what I've read gangs where I live (Chicago), they don't get as involved in drug sales as one might think. It's less about drug territories and more about representing the block one grew up on. This American Life did a pretty good story about it in two episodes about a high school a couple of years ago.
- apt-bunt 12y agoI have to disagree with you on this point. I doubt Silk Road or people buying drugs online with bitcoins have affected the market for street drugs at all. Two completely different socio-economic markets. Most who buy drugs in the inner city do not have access to bitcoin and/or Silk Road, and even if they did they would scoff at the inflated prices compared to the price on the streets.
- VLM 12y agoSocial media? "Meet me at 6" rather than one guy standing on a street corner all day? Burner phones being cheap and capable of texting?
- balls187 12y agoAll of which existed in 2008.
- InclinedPlane 12y agoBut weren't ubiquitous. The web existed in 1995, but it wasn't until the late '90s that it started becoming heavily used by the majority of the public at large.
- balls187 12y agoIn 2008, cheap cell phones were ubiquitous.
- sanderjd 12y agoThe pervasiveness of social media since 2008 has been a qualitative, rather than just quantitative, change. Different things are possible when such a high percentage of people have access to the same network. Also, 6 years is not a very long time frame over which to scoff at a lack of progress, even if it were true...
- balls187 12y agoI'm not scoffing at a lack of progress. This thread started with some one asking whether Tech had played a role in the decline of street gangs. I am making the case that outside of the smartphone, and faster wireless networks, nothing fundamentally changed between 2008 and now. So, did the rise in smartphones lead to the decline of street gangs? Causation vs Correlation.
- afarrell 12y ago
- corysama 12y agoThere was a BestOf'd comment on Reddit giving another perspective on this article. http://np.reddit.com/r/LosAngeles/comments/2qpqh9/the_end_of_gangs_cleaning_up_los_angeles/cn8j95t?context=3 http://np.reddit.com/r/LosAngeles/comments/2qpqh9/the_end_of... http://www.reddit.com/r/bestof/comments/2qqujj/ucalvindehaze_explains_why_gangs_are_declining_in/ http://www.reddit.com/r/bestof/comments/2qqujj/ucalvindehaze...
- ThrustVectoring 12y agoThe lead exposure angle and the removal of lead in gasolines needs more weight than the throwaway mention it was given. Simple biology is a ludicrously heavy lever on human behavior.
- IndianAstronaut 12y ago>Simple biology is a ludicrously heavy lever on human behavior. Seemingly small biological factors can have huge social consequences. For example not having clean water and getting parasites can mean a lower IQ for children and hindered development. http://www.economist.com/node/16479286 http://www.economist.com/node/16479286
- new299 12y agoThe article makes that assertion, and implies that their is more evidence beyond correlation, but never shows this. Clean water, is likely to be so highly correlated with IQ due to any number of other factors I think it will be extremely difficult to disambiguate.
- IndianAstronaut 12y agoIt might likely be a causal factor. http://repository.unm.edu/bitstream/handle/1928/17471/CEppig%20Dissertation.pdf?sequence=1#page=75 http://repository.unm.edu/bitstream/handle/1928/17471/CEppig...
- joshuahedlund 12y agoFor anyone interested in urban gang dynamics I highly recommend David Kennedy's book Don't Shoot. I recently read it and it contains some amazing insights into misunderstandings that communities of law enforcement and urban neighborhoods have about each other and gangs which leads to rational but wrong behaviors that perpetuate those misunderstandings, along with some brilliant ideas to change those dynamics with examples of those applied ideas working in multiple neighborhoods across the country. http://www.amazon.com/Dont-Shoot-Fellowship-Violence-Inner-City/dp/1608194140 http://www.amazon.com/Dont-Shoot-Fellowship-Violence-Inner-C...
- spiritplumber 12y agoNow gangs are bigger and their members wear badges. Sort of like the ending of A Clockwork Orange...
- logicchains 12y agoOr the ending of 1984.
- programmarchy 12y agoThey also have colonies, fraternal lodges, round tables, and front groups.
- learc83 12y agoWhat about decriminalizing possession of small quantities of marijuana that went into effect in 2011? Or medical marijuana that is also fairly recent.
- code_duck 12y agoIndeed, this takes potentially a lot of money out of the hands of criminals and into less violent hands.
- jimmaswell 12y agoIf possessing it is decriminalized and legitimate sources aren't made a more attractive option than otherwise, then people are still going to end up supporting cartels etc. when buying it.
- code_duck 12y agoLegalization changes that because it makes it a lot easier to cultivate in the US, safely and legally. Illegality encourages actions like smuggling from Central and South America, and guerrilla grows in National Forests. With decreased legal pressure, more savory elements of society produce high quality cannabis in the US. So, even if that produce is sold on the black market its a better situation than violent gangs from Mexico smuggling bricks of marijuana with theI meth, cocaine and heroin.
- blisterpeanuts 12y agoProbably pot should just be completely legalized and made into a taxable commodity like alcohol. Kill it as a revenue source for gangs. One thing, though; when it's illegal, police find it a convenient way to bust a known baddie and get them off the streets. Take that away and they lose a valuable tool.
- spydum 12y agoperhaps it's the rise of social networks, facebook, flappy bird, etc which has neutralized all gangs.. kids nowadays can't put their phones down, get off the couch. they've gotten lazier?
- noer 12y agothat's certainly not the case. If anything kids not being able to put their phones down has made it easier to make threats and start violence as this wired article points out: http://www.wired.com/2013/09/gangs-of-social-media/all/ http://www.wired.com/2013/09/gangs-of-social-media/all/
- vezzy-fnord 12y agoThe same was largely said about children watching television, a common generational gripe at the height of U.S. gang violence. Having distractions alone is not sufficient. As a previous poster noted, connectivity and digital technology can actually lower the barrier in certain aspects.
- oldspiceman 12y agoInteresting idea. "kids with nothing to do get up to no good" has become "kids with nothing to do go on facebook / reddit"
- re_todd 12y agoThat has also probably helped police track them and stay on top of the problem.
- mathattack 12y agoThis has created the only-in-L.A. phenomenon of commuter gangs: guys who drive a long way to be with their homies at the corner where the gang began. (In the 204th Street neighborhood in the Harbor Gateway, I met gang members who drove in from Carson, the San Gabriel Valley, and even Palm Springs.) The joys of living in California. I wonder if this will happen in East Palo Alto too.
- deleted 12y ago[deleted]
- zo1 12y agoPerhaps less gun ownership was needed when gang-violence occurred less? If they do correlate, I'm not entirely sure we could figure out the chain of causation without jumping to conclusions.
- cranklin 12y agoIn my opinion, it's simpler. Gang culture is cyclic. It's simply not "cool" to be a gangster nowadays, therefore insecure kids don't aspire to be gangsters. But like all things, in time, it will be "in" again.
- deleted 12y ago[deleted]
- jlcx 12y ago> “Before, they were into turf...now they’re more interested in making money.” So they switched from a zero-sum game to a positive-sum game?
- tsotha 12y agoThis is just the normal transition every successful street gang makes to a more sophisticated organized crime like you see in big East Coast cities. "Gangs" like MS-13 are huge, with more than 100k members in the US and a half dozen other countries. The Crips and Bloods can't stand up to that kind of organization - they either get coopted or destroyed. When a handful of guys in Guadalajara have a piece of every drug transaction in Southern California it's all going to look pretty peaceful unless you cross them.
- skc 12y agoI'd wager that kids are probably making smarter choices nowadays since information is more freely available with regards to what options are out there besides joining a gang.
- gaius 12y agoNo mention of biker gangs like the Hells Angels, I wonder if their popularity ebbs and flows on the same cycle (no pun intended).