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Uber Suspends Its Ride-Sharing Service in Spain Following a Court Ruling

44 points by mparramon 12y ago

jasonisalive 12y ago
Good job Europe! Moving boldly into a 21st century of open borders, individual responsibility, free choice and minimal government, one banned American troublemaker at a time.
- kalleboo 12y ago
  If I wanted to read sweeping, content-free trollish comments like this I'd have stayed on Reddit.
  - sighsigh 12y ago
    If I wanted to read crypto-nationalist tone policing like that, I'd have stayed on Tumblr.
  - jasonisalive 12y ago
    Hmm, which is it, do you disagree that aggressive legislation against Uber is unrelated to it being an American company? Do you believe that this legislation promotes openness, personal responsibility, free choice and minimal government? Or do you think that this isn't a largely pan-European phenomenon? I'd be thrilled to hear exactly where you disagree and how you can defend your counterpropositions. It's much more interesting than name-calling.
    - kiiski 12y ago
      What makes you think them being American matters? Has there been a trend of Spain banning American companies? And what makes you think the Spanish goverment is trying to promote minimal goverments, etc.? I don't really follow politics, but I always thought that in most of the European democracies, socialism tends to be favored over capitalism.
    - Symbiote 12y ago
      Your statements imply you think increased individual responsibility, free choice and reduced government is desirable in general, and by Europeans (and Spaniards) in particular. That's not necessarily the case.
    - radmuzom 12y ago
      You are welcome to do what you want in America, but as far as my country (not Spain) goes, here is a list of things the general people believe in - 1. Strong government - Being a country of diverse cultural values, it is imperative that there is a strong national government who can take care of stuff if things go bad. If that means big government, so be it. 2. Free choice - While freedom of opinion is important and respected in a majority of cases, we don't believe in the US style First Amendment. Social harmony is more important than free speech. If that means less freedom, so be it. 3. Personal responsibility - There are millions born into poverty, and it is the responsibility of the government and the citizens of my country to lift them up. That will eventually imply that we get a better quality of life. If that means more taxes, so be it. Given that we are a democracy, we have structured our government and civil systems depending on what the majority believe. And yes that means strong regulation which might imply in some cases that it is tougher to do business than it should be. Just because some American libertarian rascals tell us otherwise does not mean we are going to allow them to come and break our laws.
      - jasonisalive 12y ago
        1) I'm not American, I find it insulting that you assume that I am. 2) If your country is so well-run why do you have 23.7% unemployment?
    - lotsofmangos 12y ago
      I don't think that any legislation was created for UBER in this case and here in the UK at least, we regularly prosecute unlicenced taxi firms - http://www.thecomet.net/news/unlicensed_taxi_driver_from_shefford_prosecuted_1_2853685 http://www.thecomet.net/news/unlicensed_taxi_driver_from_she...
    - nl 12y ago
      Do you believe that this legislation promotes openness, personal responsibility, free choice and minimal government? I'm not European, nor from the US, but I'd be hesitant in thinking those are all universal or even desirable values. Personally, I'd agree with the "openness" value, mostly agree with the "personal responsibility" and "free choice" values and mostly disagree with the "minimal government" value. But these are personal views, and somewhat irrelevant to this discussion. I raise them now because you appear to believe your values are the only ones that are reasonable. In my country there are very similar reactions to Uber. Interestingly there have been similar reaction to other app-based competitors to the Taxi industry here too, despite them not being from the US. To me, that shows this isn't a largely pan-European phenomenon.
    - aikah 12y ago
      > that aggressive legislation against Uber Uber is not following existing laws.No legislation was created just against Uber,they just came in with their service,and while it's successful,it's illegal in a lot of European countries. On the contrary,I found most European country went soft on Uber, they didnt ban the company just some of its services. You can make a case the taxi industry is broken fine.But Uber is just a new middleman replacing the old one.And once it is big enough it will do everything to crush any competition,we all saw how Uber was dealing with Lyft here in US.
- woof 12y ago
  Open borders: Far more open than any other region in the world. Individual responsibility: I'm not shure what this atually means? Free choice and minimal government: As bad/good as any other democracy. Banning American troublemakers: They are not banned, but told to follow rules and regulations. Just like airbnb in NYC.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
- JohnGB 12y ago
  Let's just list "Europe" when Spain does something. Just like we all should think anything that happens in Alabama is descriptive of the whole of the United States.
  - blfr 12y ago
    Here, it's not just Spain. From the OP: France will outlaw the service from January 1, and it has been banned in The Netherlands and Belgian capital Brussels too.
- adlpz 12y ago
  I don't know what are you talking about, but if selling out to predatory foreign companies with openly questionable moral compasses and null respect for the local legislation is "the 21st century", I'd like my dear Europe to stay in the 20th, thank you very much.
  - threeseed 12y ago
    Add those of us in moderate countries eg Australia to the list. Given how much of a sad joke consumer protection laws are in the US and the general exploitation of the disadvantaged eg interest rates on student loans it's a bit rich to be lecturing other countries on matters like this.
    - jasonisalive 12y ago
      1) I'm not American, but thanks for assuming. 2) Australia isn't moderate in the slightest.
  - fennecfoxen 12y ago
    selling out to predatory foreign companies with openly questionable moral compasses and null respect for the local legislation Exactly. Remaining sold out to predatory local companies which take care to hide their moral compasses, the ones who bought the local legislation to begin with... that's the proper European way. Lots of little fiefdoms exacting tribute from the population, all nice and patriotic. Predatory local companies, you object? Yeah... there's a reason it's easy for Uber to charge half the price of a standard taxi. I mean, I don't trust Uber further than I can throw my smartphone -- just don't labor under the delusion that you're doing the common man a favor by keeping them out. The common man is the guy trying to take uberPool or uberPop or whatever service de jure, to save a little cash.
carlesfe 12y ago
Some perspective from a Spaniard: The Spanish taxi guild/lobby is very, very strong. Spain has a strong public transit system, but taxis are widely used nevertheless. Taxi drivers went on strike this year during specific dates and all hell broke loose. They have much to lose, since a taxi license is very expensive and considered an investment, there is a second hand license market, etc. Some people buy houses, they buy taxi licenses. It is a heavily regulated market, since free competition would draw prices to a point so low that the business is not profitable (or so they say) On one hand, I've never seen a rich taxi driver. I'd argue it's a low/mid-level job for low/middle class people who have nothing else to do. Similar to construction workers; if they lose their job they cannot work as anything else. On the other hand, I'm pro-competition, but I respect regulated markets for some areas (healthcare, transportation, telecommunications, energy, etc). So why not taxis? I'm just not knowledgeable enough to make a strong point for or against taxi drivers. While Spain is known for its political corruption, courts of law have been pretty professional and their rulings are usually fair and law-compliant. So if a court has banned Uber, it's because the Spanish law protects taxi drivers. It's a political matter. In summary, devaluing or voiding taxi licenses would leave tens of thousands of people in debt, probably without a job, and with nothing else to work of. Yes, I know that if it were for ice drivers, we would never have had electric fridges, but I can also sympathize. It's basically a matter of jobs. The Spanish government doesn't want our 30% unemployement to be any higher, taxis to be on strike and in general people to be angrier. TL;DR: Spain is a heavily regulated country and the EU directives also point to that direction. Taxi drivers are a low-mid demographic which need protection or, at least, protection from a total disruption of their jobs from new agents like Uber. Yes, this is bad for free competition, but this is Europe, and the level of legal protection is like this: workers > consumers > companies.
- mobiplayer 12y ago
  From another Spaniard: Do you know why you don't see rich taxi drivers? There are two answers: 1) Because YOU don't know any. Me neither, but I know a few very wealthy ones (very wealthy for my standards, as in "they own a handful houses") 2) Because the license owner is usually not the driver. This is the trend today at least in Barcelona. They hire at least 3 drivers for an 8 hours shift each, so the taxi works 24 hours a day. So you talk to drivers that are nothing but employees (falsos autónomos probably).
Someone 12y ago
AFAIK, this is a first: "The company said it is “respecting the law” with its suspension". Previously, they always said to continue their ways, going so far as promising to pay fines drivers get (sorry, can't find a link for that, but http://ernstseconomyforyou.blogspot.nl/2014/12/the-untolerable-ignorance-and-arrogance.html http://ernstseconomyforyou.blogspot.nl/2014/12/the-untolerab... is an example of what they think laws mean) They basically are trying to force law changes. There is nothing wrong with that. However, the changes they try to force go against the social structure of much of Europe. "The MP’s there should recognize that Uber is working according to one of the pillars of the Dutch taxi law: more market-like circumstances, better quality and lower prices". Their spokesman forgets about the "protect the weak" pillar of society. In a sense, this is a clash between hard capitalism and the social welfare state (a clash of civilizations, if you want) Also, I find that he change they are trying to affect does not warrant the harsh approach Uber takes. For that reason alone, I hope that changes, if they come at all, do not come soon.
- blfr 12y ago
  Who are "the weak" being protected by taxi regulations? Uber is usually cheaper than regular taxis so more available to poorer people.
  - threeseed 12y ago
    I can't speak for Spain but here in Australia there are regulations around pricing ie no surges, there are cameras present in every taxi and drivers are vetted and have their names clearly displayed. All of which are designed to protect women, those who are intoxicated or incapacitated and the mentally challenged from being exploited. Taxi regulations are like consumer protection laws. You don't know you need them until something bad happens.
  - DanBC 12y ago
    People who need to be covered by insurance if their driver crashes and injures them.
  - Someone 12y ago
    In a world that doesn't have full employment, everybody with a job that most people can learn is one of the weak. Taxis may get cheaper, but taxi drivers may start earning less, too. Even if that is not 1:1, I expect it will become relatively more expensive for taxi drivers and people in similar jobs to take a taxi. If they lose 10% income, they may easily lose 25% of their income after paying for necessities (rent, food). So, taxis would have to become cheaper by over 25% for it to become more affordable to taxi drivers to take one.
chippy 12y ago
Can we clarify: is it just the Uber Pop service (normal people's cars, irregular costs) which is suspended, not the standard Uber taxi service (licensed booked hire by authorized driver) ? Does Uber operate in Spain using it's other services?
- fesja 12y ago
  No, they don't. They just had Uber Pop. There is a Spanish Uber competitor called Cabify that does comply with the law. They have professional drivers and cool and clean cars. So yes, Uber could be legal if they want (it implies more effort though as every driver has to have a license)
enigami 12y ago
I think Uber will find a way out of this situation. I am an Indian and am really feel sad for what happened in New Delhi. But, what happened after that incident is an example of how Uber handles such kind of unfortunate challenges [1]. Now the company is taking every possible step to be a socially responsible company which is committed to the safety of its customers. Whenever a new and disruptive business model is introduced in a market, people (making a living out of the existing business) might show some resistance and even the governments will take some steps to safeguard the votes (I mean the affected people). However, in the due course things will settle down and the new entrant will emerge as winner (with an understanding of the local culture and regulation). I personally feel, country like India definitely requires Uber like services to ease the pain of millions of travelers who are literally looted by the unfair taxi drivers and ineffective fare system around the country. [1] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-life/11315782/Uber-India-to-roll-out-new-safety-measures-after-Delhi-rape.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-life/11315782/Uber-I...
- mobiplayer 12y ago
  Do you know why Uber wasn't invented in Spain? Because it is illegal. People giving rides for money have existed always and they've been punished because they were breaking the law. Now they're telling us it is "disruptive" to make crime more organized? Hey, we've got this nice app in order to receive your illegal service in an easy, trackable and convenient way. I'm not saying it should be illegal. I'm saying it is illegal. There's a huge difference. I'm all in for an open taxi market as a side business to cheap public transportation like we have in most places in Europe.
  - asocial 12y ago
    Uber's entire premise seems to be that a regulated market is by definition a corrupt one, that the "crime" lies in following the laws, not breaking them. One person's "organized crime" is another's "free market enterprise". Their argument, and their attitude, fails when they encounter cultures which don't share the US' antipathy towards labor and consumer rights. There are places where the taxis manage to not be terrible, and where people prefer services to be regulated beyond "caveat emptor." Insane, I know.
pinaceae 12y ago
Spending a lot of time in Barcelona each year - what exactly is there to disrupt? taxi service is excellent, at all times of day. prices are reasonable, they know where to take you. cars are ok, clean. i get it in the US, with all those shitty cabs and foreign drivers who don't know their areas, but Europe is different. Apps like mytaxi.com are closing the payment/booking gap - backed by some powerful companies like Daimler. Uber-like services are needed in the US where the government is unable to actually do its work due to a culture of distrust and paranoia. There is no electronic health record, Google could not make it work. Sci Fi in the US. Austrians have had it for years now. Awesomely simple, proven. No startups needed. Also less chances for creating the next billionaires, but maybe it's ok if the rest of the population can enjoy working public services.
- DrDimension 12y ago
  Blaming government incompetence on a lack of public trust in government is... fallacious to put it kindly.
  - pinaceae 12y ago
    not at all. you make the government the source of all evil. blame regulation, blame the people working in government, don't pay them well. what happens? public service will suck. no one qualified wants to work there. a self fulfilling prophecy. the people get the government they are willing to pay for, they deserve. the whole starving the beast rhetoric of the GOP, etc in the US is what ultimately makes the government dysfunctional - outside of Defense of course, the holy cow. if the DoD would be in charge of healthcare and public infrastructure, maybe then there would be progress in the US.
    - DrDimension 12y ago
      It's too bad you're unaware of the calculation problem and its consequences. Also, let's reverse your argument - "you make the free-market the source of all evil. blame a lack of regulation, blame the people working in corporations, regulate their pay as well. what happens? free-market service will suck. no one qualified wants to work there. a self fulfilling prophecy."

44 points by mparramon 12y ago

Good job Europe! Moving boldly into a 21st century of open borders, individual responsibility, free choice and minimal government, one banned American troublemaker at a time.

kalleboo 12y ago
If I wanted to read sweeping, content-free trollish comments like this I'd have stayed on Reddit.
- sighsigh 12y ago
  If I wanted to read crypto-nationalist tone policing like that, I'd have stayed on Tumblr.
- jasonisalive 12y ago
  Hmm, which is it, do you disagree that aggressive legislation against Uber is unrelated to it being an American company? Do you believe that this legislation promotes openness, personal responsibility, free choice and minimal government? Or do you think that this isn't a largely pan-European phenomenon? I'd be thrilled to hear exactly where you disagree and how you can defend your counterpropositions. It's much more interesting than name-calling.
  - kiiski 12y ago
    What makes you think them being American matters? Has there been a trend of Spain banning American companies? And what makes you think the Spanish goverment is trying to promote minimal goverments, etc.? I don't really follow politics, but I always thought that in most of the European democracies, socialism tends to be favored over capitalism.
  - Symbiote 12y ago
    Your statements imply you think increased individual responsibility, free choice and reduced government is desirable in general, and by Europeans (and Spaniards) in particular. That's not necessarily the case.
  - radmuzom 12y ago
    You are welcome to do what you want in America, but as far as my country (not Spain) goes, here is a list of things the general people believe in - 1. Strong government - Being a country of diverse cultural values, it is imperative that there is a strong national government who can take care of stuff if things go bad. If that means big government, so be it. 2. Free choice - While freedom of opinion is important and respected in a majority of cases, we don't believe in the US style First Amendment. Social harmony is more important than free speech. If that means less freedom, so be it. 3. Personal responsibility - There are millions born into poverty, and it is the responsibility of the government and the citizens of my country to lift them up. That will eventually imply that we get a better quality of life. If that means more taxes, so be it. Given that we are a democracy, we have structured our government and civil systems depending on what the majority believe. And yes that means strong regulation which might imply in some cases that it is tougher to do business than it should be. Just because some American libertarian rascals tell us otherwise does not mean we are going to allow them to come and break our laws.
    - jasonisalive 12y ago
      1) I'm not American, I find it insulting that you assume that I am. 2) If your country is so well-run why do you have 23.7% unemployment?
  - lotsofmangos 12y ago
    I don't think that any legislation was created for UBER in this case and here in the UK at least, we regularly prosecute unlicenced taxi firms - http://www.thecomet.net/news/unlicensed_taxi_driver_from_shefford_prosecuted_1_2853685 http://www.thecomet.net/news/unlicensed_taxi_driver_from_she...
  - nl 12y ago
    Do you believe that this legislation promotes openness, personal responsibility, free choice and minimal government? I'm not European, nor from the US, but I'd be hesitant in thinking those are all universal or even desirable values. Personally, I'd agree with the "openness" value, mostly agree with the "personal responsibility" and "free choice" values and mostly disagree with the "minimal government" value. But these are personal views, and somewhat irrelevant to this discussion. I raise them now because you appear to believe your values are the only ones that are reasonable. In my country there are very similar reactions to Uber. Interestingly there have been similar reaction to other app-based competitors to the Taxi industry here too, despite them not being from the US. To me, that shows this isn't a largely pan-European phenomenon.
  - aikah 12y ago
    > that aggressive legislation against Uber Uber is not following existing laws.No legislation was created just against Uber,they just came in with their service,and while it's successful,it's illegal in a lot of European countries. On the contrary,I found most European country went soft on Uber, they didnt ban the company just some of its services. You can make a case the taxi industry is broken fine.But Uber is just a new middleman replacing the old one.And once it is big enough it will do everything to crush any competition,we all saw how Uber was dealing with Lyft here in US.
woof 12y ago
Open borders: Far more open than any other region in the world. Individual responsibility: I'm not shure what this atually means? Free choice and minimal government: As bad/good as any other democracy. Banning American troublemakers: They are not banned, but told to follow rules and regulations. Just like airbnb in NYC.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
JohnGB 12y ago
Let's just list "Europe" when Spain does something. Just like we all should think anything that happens in Alabama is descriptive of the whole of the United States.
- blfr 12y ago
  Here, it's not just Spain. From the OP: France will outlaw the service from January 1, and it has been banned in The Netherlands and Belgian capital Brussels too.
adlpz 12y ago
I don't know what are you talking about, but if selling out to predatory foreign companies with openly questionable moral compasses and null respect for the local legislation is "the 21st century", I'd like my dear Europe to stay in the 20th, thank you very much.
- threeseed 12y ago
  Add those of us in moderate countries eg Australia to the list. Given how much of a sad joke consumer protection laws are in the US and the general exploitation of the disadvantaged eg interest rates on student loans it's a bit rich to be lecturing other countries on matters like this.
  - jasonisalive 12y ago
    1) I'm not American, but thanks for assuming. 2) Australia isn't moderate in the slightest.
- fennecfoxen 12y ago
  selling out to predatory foreign companies with openly questionable moral compasses and null respect for the local legislation Exactly. Remaining sold out to predatory local companies which take care to hide their moral compasses, the ones who bought the local legislation to begin with... that's the proper European way. Lots of little fiefdoms exacting tribute from the population, all nice and patriotic. Predatory local companies, you object? Yeah... there's a reason it's easy for Uber to charge half the price of a standard taxi. I mean, I don't trust Uber further than I can throw my smartphone -- just don't labor under the delusion that you're doing the common man a favor by keeping them out. The common man is the guy trying to take uberPool or uberPop or whatever service de jure, to save a little cash.

carlesfe 12y ago

Some perspective from a Spaniard: The Spanish taxi guild/lobby is very, very strong. Spain has a strong public transit system, but taxis are widely used nevertheless. Taxi drivers went on strike this year during specific dates and all hell broke loose. They have much to lose, since a taxi license is very expensive and considered an investment, there is a second hand license market, etc. Some people buy houses, they buy taxi licenses. It is a heavily regulated market, since free competition would draw prices to a point so low that the business is not profitable (or so they say) On one hand, I've never seen a rich taxi driver. I'd argue it's a low/mid-level job for low/middle class people who have nothing else to do. Similar to construction workers; if they lose their job they cannot work as anything else. On the other hand, I'm pro-competition, but I respect regulated markets for some areas (healthcare, transportation, telecommunications, energy, etc). So why not taxis? I'm just not knowledgeable enough to make a strong point for or against taxi drivers. While Spain is known for its political corruption, courts of law have been pretty professional and their rulings are usually fair and law-compliant. So if a court has banned Uber, it's because the Spanish law protects taxi drivers. It's a political matter. In summary, devaluing or voiding taxi licenses would leave tens of thousands of people in debt, probably without a job, and with nothing else to work of. Yes, I know that if it were for ice drivers, we would never have had electric fridges, but I can also sympathize. It's basically a matter of jobs. The Spanish government doesn't want our 30% unemployement to be any higher, taxis to be on strike and in general people to be angrier. TL;DR: Spain is a heavily regulated country and the EU directives also point to that direction. Taxi drivers are a low-mid demographic which need protection or, at least, protection from a total disruption of their jobs from new agents like Uber. Yes, this is bad for free competition, but this is Europe, and the level of legal protection is like this: workers > consumers > companies.

mobiplayer 12y ago
From another Spaniard: Do you know why you don't see rich taxi drivers? There are two answers: 1) Because YOU don't know any. Me neither, but I know a few very wealthy ones (very wealthy for my standards, as in "they own a handful houses") 2) Because the license owner is usually not the driver. This is the trend today at least in Barcelona. They hire at least 3 drivers for an 8 hours shift each, so the taxi works 24 hours a day. So you talk to drivers that are nothing but employees (falsos autónomos probably).

Someone 12y ago

AFAIK, this is a first: "The company said it is “respecting the law” with its suspension". Previously, they always said to continue their ways, going so far as promising to pay fines drivers get (sorry, can't find a link for that, but http://ernstseconomyforyou.blogspot.nl/2014/12/the-untolerable-ignorance-and-arrogance.html http://ernstseconomyforyou.blogspot.nl/2014/12/the-untolerab... is an example of what they think laws mean) They basically are trying to force law changes. There is nothing wrong with that. However, the changes they try to force go against the social structure of much of Europe. "The MP’s there should recognize that Uber is working according to one of the pillars of the Dutch taxi law: more market-like circumstances, better quality and lower prices". Their spokesman forgets about the "protect the weak" pillar of society. In a sense, this is a clash between hard capitalism and the social welfare state (a clash of civilizations, if you want) Also, I find that he change they are trying to affect does not warrant the harsh approach Uber takes. For that reason alone, I hope that changes, if they come at all, do not come soon.

blfr 12y ago
Who are "the weak" being protected by taxi regulations? Uber is usually cheaper than regular taxis so more available to poorer people.
- threeseed 12y ago
  I can't speak for Spain but here in Australia there are regulations around pricing ie no surges, there are cameras present in every taxi and drivers are vetted and have their names clearly displayed. All of which are designed to protect women, those who are intoxicated or incapacitated and the mentally challenged from being exploited. Taxi regulations are like consumer protection laws. You don't know you need them until something bad happens.
- DanBC 12y ago
  People who need to be covered by insurance if their driver crashes and injures them.
- Someone 12y ago
  In a world that doesn't have full employment, everybody with a job that most people can learn is one of the weak. Taxis may get cheaper, but taxi drivers may start earning less, too. Even if that is not 1:1, I expect it will become relatively more expensive for taxi drivers and people in similar jobs to take a taxi. If they lose 10% income, they may easily lose 25% of their income after paying for necessities (rent, food). So, taxis would have to become cheaper by over 25% for it to become more affordable to taxi drivers to take one.

chippy 12y ago

Can we clarify: is it just the Uber Pop service (normal people's cars, irregular costs) which is suspended, not the standard Uber taxi service (licensed booked hire by authorized driver) ? Does Uber operate in Spain using it's other services?

fesja 12y ago
No, they don't. They just had Uber Pop. There is a Spanish Uber competitor called Cabify that does comply with the law. They have professional drivers and cool and clean cars. So yes, Uber could be legal if they want (it implies more effort though as every driver has to have a license)

enigami 12y ago

I think Uber will find a way out of this situation. I am an Indian and am really feel sad for what happened in New Delhi. But, what happened after that incident is an example of how Uber handles such kind of unfortunate challenges [1]. Now the company is taking every possible step to be a socially responsible company which is committed to the safety of its customers. Whenever a new and disruptive business model is introduced in a market, people (making a living out of the existing business) might show some resistance and even the governments will take some steps to safeguard the votes (I mean the affected people). However, in the due course things will settle down and the new entrant will emerge as winner (with an understanding of the local culture and regulation). I personally feel, country like India definitely requires Uber like services to ease the pain of millions of travelers who are literally looted by the unfair taxi drivers and ineffective fare system around the country. [1] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-life/11315782/Uber-India-to-roll-out-new-safety-measures-after-Delhi-rape.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-life/11315782/Uber-I...

mobiplayer 12y ago
Do you know why Uber wasn't invented in Spain? Because it is illegal. People giving rides for money have existed always and they've been punished because they were breaking the law. Now they're telling us it is "disruptive" to make crime more organized? Hey, we've got this nice app in order to receive your illegal service in an easy, trackable and convenient way. I'm not saying it should be illegal. I'm saying it is illegal. There's a huge difference. I'm all in for an open taxi market as a side business to cheap public transportation like we have in most places in Europe.
- asocial 12y ago
  Uber's entire premise seems to be that a regulated market is by definition a corrupt one, that the "crime" lies in following the laws, not breaking them. One person's "organized crime" is another's "free market enterprise". Their argument, and their attitude, fails when they encounter cultures which don't share the US' antipathy towards labor and consumer rights. There are places where the taxis manage to not be terrible, and where people prefer services to be regulated beyond "caveat emptor." Insane, I know.

pinaceae 12y ago

Spending a lot of time in Barcelona each year - what exactly is there to disrupt? taxi service is excellent, at all times of day. prices are reasonable, they know where to take you. cars are ok, clean. i get it in the US, with all those shitty cabs and foreign drivers who don't know their areas, but Europe is different. Apps like mytaxi.com are closing the payment/booking gap - backed by some powerful companies like Daimler. Uber-like services are needed in the US where the government is unable to actually do its work due to a culture of distrust and paranoia. There is no electronic health record, Google could not make it work. Sci Fi in the US. Austrians have had it for years now. Awesomely simple, proven. No startups needed. Also less chances for creating the next billionaires, but maybe it's ok if the rest of the population can enjoy working public services.

DrDimension 12y ago
Blaming government incompetence on a lack of public trust in government is... fallacious to put it kindly.
- pinaceae 12y ago
  not at all. you make the government the source of all evil. blame regulation, blame the people working in government, don't pay them well. what happens? public service will suck. no one qualified wants to work there. a self fulfilling prophecy. the people get the government they are willing to pay for, they deserve. the whole starving the beast rhetoric of the GOP, etc in the US is what ultimately makes the government dysfunctional - outside of Defense of course, the holy cow. if the DoD would be in charge of healthcare and public infrastructure, maybe then there would be progress in the US.
  - DrDimension 12y ago
    It's too bad you're unaware of the calculation problem and its consequences. Also, let's reverse your argument - "you make the free-market the source of all evil. blame a lack of regulation, blame the people working in corporations, regulate their pay as well. what happens? free-market service will suck. no one qualified wants to work there. a self fulfilling prophecy."