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Sony Reveals an Even Bigger Attack on the Internet – the MPAA Is Behind It

198 points by philip1209 12y ago

sarciszewski 12y ago
DNS is insecure. We know this, and we work around it (hence, TLS). We don't like this, but the implementations to secure DNS (DANE, etc.) leave a bad taste in security experts' mouths. Attacking DNS with legal pressure isn't something the security industry doesn't already consider. DNS censorship is on of the motivations for using Tor, VPNs, etc. This is a legal and political conflict, not a technical one.
- wyager 12y ago
  >We don't like this, but the implementations to secure DNS (DANE, etc.) DANE is just another half-assed semi-solution that shifts the trust problem around a bit. A really good solution requires huge infrastructure change. The only currently viable solution to Zooko's Triangle is Namecoin (or a similar technology). It is not possible to forcibly change a Namecoin entry via legal channels.
  - roywiggins 12y ago
    Can't you just order the owner of the namecoin entry to transfer it? You can't seize it, but you can seize the -owner-, if you can find them. If I have control of "microsoft.bit" I assume Microsoft would be within their rights to sue me for trademark infringement. This is better than the FBI's (apparently legal?) ability to seize .com domains en masse, but still.
    - wyager 12y ago
      Of course. There's no defense against "rubber hose cryptanalysis". However, it's trivial to hide ownership of namecoin domains, or to share ownership among geographically disparate parties.
  - sarciszewski 12y ago
    I'm actually working on a toy project specification that involves: - Tor Hidden Services - Onionimbus (basically tor2web + DNS) - Namecoin - node-webkit All to make an anonymous desktop publishing suite to encourage diversity in the darknet, and to encourage anonymous and decentralized publishing in general.
  - wolfgke 12y ago
    > The only currently viable solution to Zooko's Triangle is Namecoin (or a similar technology). Quoting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zooko%27s_triangle http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zooko%27s_triangle: "Following Namecoin, other platforms were developed which defy Zooko's conjecture, such as Twister.".
fatjokes 12y ago
If it isn't wrapped up in a patriotic/freedom-loving/#murica/they-hate-our-freedomz narrative, I'm not interested. /s
- influx 12y ago
  I haven't seen anyone say anything like that here, this straw-man comment really brings down the discourse of the site.
  - innguest 12y ago
    OP is saying this will get no press because there's no fear tactics appealing to the public. In other words the OP is saying that without a villain in this story that people can bring into their lives and feel the fear/pride/nationalism in their own bodies (and use as an excuse to watch a crappy movie, for instance), people won't care.
anigbrowl 12y ago
While it’s incredible that a lawyer like Fabrizio would be so bold (and foolish) to use such language in discoverable emails, what he is proposing is even more incredible. A deliberate attempt to circumvent the DMCA. Ironic, right? It's not incredible at all. He has an alternative legal theory that he thinks might stand up in court and lead to issuance of a court order. That's exactly the job a lawyer is paid to do - come up with legal strategy that advance the interests of clients, including employers. I don't know whether this legal theory would prevail and I hope it doesn't, but going to court and asking for what they want is the appropriate way to go about things. the MPAA should be finding ways to reduce piracy by enabling access to content via methods that reward creators. But people torrent things anyway, even when they are instantly available. I mentioned to someone the other day that The Master (a film that did rather poorly at the box office in 2012 but has maintained a good level of audience interest over the longer term, like many art films) has been available on Netflix streaming since July and is also available on other services like Amazon Instant Video, but you can see 25-30k people torrenting it on popular trackers. You can always invent another excuse for why it's more convenient to Torrent something than pay the paltry $8 or $10/month for Netflix, ie the cost of a few cups of coffee or about an hour's wages in a low-paying job. This method rewards creators and is clearly affordable. Without endorsing the MPAA, how much more should they be doing in this case? Imagine that I worked for them and you were about to torrent this film, exactly what is it you would want me to do for you that would change your mind?
- joshontheweb 12y ago
  You are right, there is no perfect solution for the motion picture industry. Technology has undermined their business model. That doesn't mean we should allow them to sculpt our laws in order to unnaturally perpetuate their dominance. If your business model relies on restricting the flow of information, you are at complete odds with the internet, and you are doomed.
  - thefreeman 12y ago
    Yea, but if they go away completely, so does all of our entertainment. So I surely hope there is a middle ground somewhere.
MarcScott 12y ago
"DNS is a fundamental protocol of the Internet — as fundamental as the physical wiring itself" This was why I was so annoyed by the MPAA's ability to impose DNS filtering in the UK. See here - http://www.ukispcourtorders.co.uk http://www.ukispcourtorders.co.uk Of course, it is not difficult to circumvent by using alternate DNS providers other than your ISP's, but the vast majority of people wouldn't know where to start on this. What I find worrisome is not the blocking of torrent sites, but that a precedent has been set in the UK, and we'll inevitably start our headlong slide down the slippery slope towards censorship of anything corporations or the government find objectionable.
- erglkjahlkh 12y ago
  Hey a web site that informs me about the most efficient warez sites. How well thought of them to produce that for me!
- happyscrappy 12y ago
  >I was so annoyed by the MPAA's ability to impose DNS filtering in the UK. The only entity with the ability to impose DNS filtering in the UK is the government of the UK. Letting them off the hook guarantees they can run rough shod over you.
  - mcintyre1994 12y ago
    You're technically right of course (well, orders are made by the High Court) but you only need to look at the list of blocks to see whose using the power - almost exclusively BPI and MPAA.
- caractacus 12y ago
  They haven't imposed DNS filtering - or at least, as implemented by almost all UK ISPs, the DNS lookup performs as normal. The user looks up the IP address of the site they want to visit via a DNS lookup and is provided with the correct IP addres. However, if it's for kickass.so (on the blocklist), the ISP detects traffic to the IP of that site as it attempts to pass out of the ISP's network and blocks it. Also, most of the work to get sites blocked via court order in the UK (not by some secret lobbying deal, but through the courts) has been done by the music industry, not the MPAA.
sighsigh 12y ago
Half-hearted attempt by the collapsing mass media machine to conflate shitty attempts at DNS filtering as the next SOPA in the hopes the "angry poli-tech" types will run with it to drown out the fact that a darling entertainment exec and devote Democrat is actually racist. http://data.influenceexplorer.com/contributions/#Y29udHJpYnV0b3JfZnQ9U2NvdHQlMjBSdWRpbg== http://data.influenceexplorer.com/contributions/#Y29udHJpYnV... But Firefox CEO can lose his job because he donated to a Republican once. That's cool.
mark_l_watson 12y ago
Setting aside this lawyer's idea of a new legal strategy, I have a slightly off topic comment: I am getting tired of hearing people talk at parties, etc. about grabbing/stealing stuff via bit torrents. While I don't like the MPAA and the clout that they have, it also works the other way: people stealing media are also screwing over those of us who are willing to pay for Netflix streaming, etc. I think that people who steal media content turn a blind eye to the harm they cause other Internet users. This is selfish behavior that is spilling over into bad political actions and government policy.

198 points by philip1209 12y ago

DNS is insecure. We know this, and we work around it (hence, TLS). We don't like this, but the implementations to secure DNS (DANE, etc.) leave a bad taste in security experts' mouths. Attacking DNS with legal pressure isn't something the security industry doesn't already consider. DNS censorship is on of the motivations for using Tor, VPNs, etc. This is a legal and political conflict, not a technical one.

wyager 12y ago
>We don't like this, but the implementations to secure DNS (DANE, etc.) DANE is just another half-assed semi-solution that shifts the trust problem around a bit. A really good solution requires huge infrastructure change. The only currently viable solution to Zooko's Triangle is Namecoin (or a similar technology). It is not possible to forcibly change a Namecoin entry via legal channels.
- roywiggins 12y ago
  Can't you just order the owner of the namecoin entry to transfer it? You can't seize it, but you can seize the -owner-, if you can find them. If I have control of "microsoft.bit" I assume Microsoft would be within their rights to sue me for trademark infringement. This is better than the FBI's (apparently legal?) ability to seize .com domains en masse, but still.
  - wyager 12y ago
    Of course. There's no defense against "rubber hose cryptanalysis". However, it's trivial to hide ownership of namecoin domains, or to share ownership among geographically disparate parties.
- sarciszewski 12y ago
  I'm actually working on a toy project specification that involves: - Tor Hidden Services - Onionimbus (basically tor2web + DNS) - Namecoin - node-webkit All to make an anonymous desktop publishing suite to encourage diversity in the darknet, and to encourage anonymous and decentralized publishing in general.
- wolfgke 12y ago
  > The only currently viable solution to Zooko's Triangle is Namecoin (or a similar technology). Quoting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zooko%27s_triangle http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zooko%27s_triangle: "Following Namecoin, other platforms were developed which defy Zooko's conjecture, such as Twister.".

fatjokes 12y ago

If it isn't wrapped up in a patriotic/freedom-loving/#murica/they-hate-our-freedomz narrative, I'm not interested. /s

influx 12y ago
I haven't seen anyone say anything like that here, this straw-man comment really brings down the discourse of the site.
- innguest 12y ago
  OP is saying this will get no press because there's no fear tactics appealing to the public. In other words the OP is saying that without a villain in this story that people can bring into their lives and feel the fear/pride/nationalism in their own bodies (and use as an excuse to watch a crappy movie, for instance), people won't care.

anigbrowl 12y ago

While it’s incredible that a lawyer like Fabrizio would be so bold (and foolish) to use such language in discoverable emails, what he is proposing is even more incredible. A deliberate attempt to circumvent the DMCA. Ironic, right? It's not incredible at all. He has an alternative legal theory that he thinks might stand up in court and lead to issuance of a court order. That's exactly the job a lawyer is paid to do - come up with legal strategy that advance the interests of clients, including employers. I don't know whether this legal theory would prevail and I hope it doesn't, but going to court and asking for what they want is the appropriate way to go about things. the MPAA should be finding ways to reduce piracy by enabling access to content via methods that reward creators. But people torrent things anyway, even when they are instantly available. I mentioned to someone the other day that The Master (a film that did rather poorly at the box office in 2012 but has maintained a good level of audience interest over the longer term, like many art films) has been available on Netflix streaming since July and is also available on other services like Amazon Instant Video, but you can see 25-30k people torrenting it on popular trackers. You can always invent another excuse for why it's more convenient to Torrent something than pay the paltry $8 or $10/month for Netflix, ie the cost of a few cups of coffee or about an hour's wages in a low-paying job. This method rewards creators and is clearly affordable. Without endorsing the MPAA, how much more should they be doing in this case? Imagine that I worked for them and you were about to torrent this film, exactly what is it you would want me to do for you that would change your mind?

joshontheweb 12y ago
You are right, there is no perfect solution for the motion picture industry. Technology has undermined their business model. That doesn't mean we should allow them to sculpt our laws in order to unnaturally perpetuate their dominance. If your business model relies on restricting the flow of information, you are at complete odds with the internet, and you are doomed.
- thefreeman 12y ago
  Yea, but if they go away completely, so does all of our entertainment. So I surely hope there is a middle ground somewhere.

MarcScott 12y ago

"DNS is a fundamental protocol of the Internet — as fundamental as the physical wiring itself" This was why I was so annoyed by the MPAA's ability to impose DNS filtering in the UK. See here - http://www.ukispcourtorders.co.uk http://www.ukispcourtorders.co.uk Of course, it is not difficult to circumvent by using alternate DNS providers other than your ISP's, but the vast majority of people wouldn't know where to start on this. What I find worrisome is not the blocking of torrent sites, but that a precedent has been set in the UK, and we'll inevitably start our headlong slide down the slippery slope towards censorship of anything corporations or the government find objectionable.

erglkjahlkh 12y ago
Hey a web site that informs me about the most efficient warez sites. How well thought of them to produce that for me!
happyscrappy 12y ago
>I was so annoyed by the MPAA's ability to impose DNS filtering in the UK. The only entity with the ability to impose DNS filtering in the UK is the government of the UK. Letting them off the hook guarantees they can run rough shod over you.
- mcintyre1994 12y ago
  You're technically right of course (well, orders are made by the High Court) but you only need to look at the list of blocks to see whose using the power - almost exclusively BPI and MPAA.
caractacus 12y ago
They haven't imposed DNS filtering - or at least, as implemented by almost all UK ISPs, the DNS lookup performs as normal. The user looks up the IP address of the site they want to visit via a DNS lookup and is provided with the correct IP addres. However, if it's for kickass.so (on the blocklist), the ISP detects traffic to the IP of that site as it attempts to pass out of the ISP's network and blocks it. Also, most of the work to get sites blocked via court order in the UK (not by some secret lobbying deal, but through the courts) has been done by the music industry, not the MPAA.

sighsigh 12y ago

Half-hearted attempt by the collapsing mass media machine to conflate shitty attempts at DNS filtering as the next SOPA in the hopes the "angry poli-tech" types will run with it to drown out the fact that a darling entertainment exec and devote Democrat is actually racist. http://data.influenceexplorer.com/contributions/#Y29udHJpYnV0b3JfZnQ9U2NvdHQlMjBSdWRpbg== http://data.influenceexplorer.com/contributions/#Y29udHJpYnV... But Firefox CEO can lose his job because he donated to a Republican once. That's cool.

mark_l_watson 12y ago

Setting aside this lawyer's idea of a new legal strategy, I have a slightly off topic comment: I am getting tired of hearing people talk at parties, etc. about grabbing/stealing stuff via bit torrents. While I don't like the MPAA and the clout that they have, it also works the other way: people stealing media are also screwing over those of us who are willing to pay for Netflix streaming, etc. I think that people who steal media content turn a blind eye to the harm they cause other Internet users. This is selfish behavior that is spilling over into bad political actions and government policy.