3 ms·

The phrase “social proof” seems to have originated online in 2007

3 points by api 12y ago

api 12y ago
Posted this out of curiosity -- does anyone know what "patient zero" is for this meme? It's a meme that I find possibly harmful, since it amounts to the idea that herd effects and other forms of social confirmation bias are a good thing and that these biases should be intentionally built into the decision making process. It also carries some other questionable baggage / corollaries: - Secrets do not exist, hence trade secrets and contrarian business models or scientific ideas are rare or nonexistent. - Markets are almost perfectly efficient -- including the marketplace of ideas. - Conceptual thought and first-principles reasoning are very unreliable. - In addition to intellectual biases toward cargo cultism and herd effects, it also introduces a powerful bias toward cronyism and "old boy networks." I'm also curious if the original idea was possibly more nuanced than that. It's very common for a nuanced idea (e.g. disruption) to get very dumbed down by the game of telephone. Related: http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-conventional-wisdom-on-oil-is-always-wrong/ http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-conventional-wisdom-... Social proof would seem to be an intrinsically bad thing in investing -- so why is this concept so popular among investors?
- stray 12y ago
  Patient zero is Robert Cialdini, a Professor of Psychology and Marketing at Arizona State University. He is best known for his 1984 book on persuasion and marketing, Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion (which is where I first learned of the term Social Proof).
FiatLuxDave 12y ago
It appears to come from much earlier than 2007. See for example: Cialdini, Robert B.; Wosinska, W.; Barett, D. W.; Gornik-Durose, M. (October 1999). "Compliance with a request in two cultures: The differential influence of social proof and commitment/consistency on collectivists and individualists". Personality and Social Psychology Bulletin 25 (10): 1242–1253. doi:10.1177/0146167299258006 Robert Cialdini may be the one who is most associated with this phrase. A few other items which reference it are: Cialdini, Robert B. (October 2001). "Harnessing the science of persuasion". Harvard Business Review 79 (9): 72–79. Cialdini, Robert (1993). Influence (3rd ed.). New York: HarperCollins. So, I suppose the real question is, why does Google trends show a beginning in 2007? Edit: There appear to be a number of articles about Cialdini's book in 2007. It appears that there was a Washington Post article in 2007 that spurred the interest spike: http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/magazine/pearls-before-breakfast-can-one-of-the-nations-great-musicians-cut-through-the-fog-of-a-dc-rush-hour-lets-find-out/2014/09/23/8a6d46da-4331-11e4-b47c-f5889e061e5f_story.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/magazine/pearls-befo...
- dalke 12y ago
  Not knowing anything about "social proof" or why it's important to know when it appears online, but the term appeared online well before 2007. For example, https://web.archive.org/web/20000511115153/http://www.isoc.org/inet99/proceedings/3g/3g_2.htm https://web.archive.org/web/20000511115153/http://www.isoc.o... (from 2000) says: > Social proof. In many social situations, one of the mental shortcuts on which we rely, in determining what course of action is most appropriate, is to look to see what other people in the vicinity are doing or saying. This phenomenon, known as social proof, can prompt us to take actions that may be against our self-interest without taking the time to consider them more deeply. Cults from the Jonestown Temple to Heaven's Gate, for example, provide cogent evidence of how strong the effects of that phenomenon can be in the right circumstances. [19] Therefore, it's likely an artifact of Google trends. Various sources cite: White, S. H. (1977). Social proof structures: The dialectic of method and theory in the work of psychology. Life-span developmental psychology: Dialectical perspectives on experimental research, 59-92 as the source of the term.

3 points by api 12y ago

api 12y ago

Posted this out of curiosity -- does anyone know what "patient zero" is for this meme? It's a meme that I find possibly harmful, since it amounts to the idea that herd effects and other forms of social confirmation bias are a good thing and that these biases should be intentionally built into the decision making process. It also carries some other questionable baggage / corollaries: - Secrets do not exist, hence trade secrets and contrarian business models or scientific ideas are rare or nonexistent. - Markets are almost perfectly efficient -- including the marketplace of ideas. - Conceptual thought and first-principles reasoning are very unreliable. - In addition to intellectual biases toward cargo cultism and herd effects, it also introduces a powerful bias toward cronyism and "old boy networks." I'm also curious if the original idea was possibly more nuanced than that. It's very common for a nuanced idea (e.g. disruption) to get very dumbed down by the game of telephone. Related: http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-conventional-wisdom-on-oil-is-always-wrong/ http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-conventional-wisdom-... Social proof would seem to be an intrinsically bad thing in investing -- so why is this concept so popular among investors?

stray 12y ago
Patient zero is Robert Cialdini, a Professor of Psychology and Marketing at Arizona State University. He is best known for his 1984 book on persuasion and marketing, Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion (which is where I first learned of the term Social Proof).

FiatLuxDave 12y ago

It appears to come from much earlier than 2007. See for example: Cialdini, Robert B.; Wosinska, W.; Barett, D. W.; Gornik-Durose, M. (October 1999). "Compliance with a request in two cultures: The differential influence of social proof and commitment/consistency on collectivists and individualists". Personality and Social Psychology Bulletin 25 (10): 1242–1253. doi:10.1177/0146167299258006 Robert Cialdini may be the one who is most associated with this phrase. A few other items which reference it are: Cialdini, Robert B. (October 2001). "Harnessing the science of persuasion". Harvard Business Review 79 (9): 72–79. Cialdini, Robert (1993). Influence (3rd ed.). New York: HarperCollins. So, I suppose the real question is, why does Google trends show a beginning in 2007? Edit: There appear to be a number of articles about Cialdini's book in 2007. It appears that there was a Washington Post article in 2007 that spurred the interest spike: http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/magazine/pearls-before-breakfast-can-one-of-the-nations-great-musicians-cut-through-the-fog-of-a-dc-rush-hour-lets-find-out/2014/09/23/8a6d46da-4331-11e4-b47c-f5889e061e5f_story.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/magazine/pearls-befo...

dalke 12y ago
Not knowing anything about "social proof" or why it's important to know when it appears online, but the term appeared online well before 2007. For example, https://web.archive.org/web/20000511115153/http://www.isoc.org/inet99/proceedings/3g/3g_2.htm https://web.archive.org/web/20000511115153/http://www.isoc.o... (from 2000) says: > Social proof. In many social situations, one of the mental shortcuts on which we rely, in determining what course of action is most appropriate, is to look to see what other people in the vicinity are doing or saying. This phenomenon, known as social proof, can prompt us to take actions that may be against our self-interest without taking the time to consider them more deeply. Cults from the Jonestown Temple to Heaven's Gate, for example, provide cogent evidence of how strong the effects of that phenomenon can be in the right circumstances. [19] Therefore, it's likely an artifact of Google trends. Various sources cite: White, S. H. (1977). Social proof structures: The dialectic of method and theory in the work of psychology. Life-span developmental psychology: Dialectical perspectives on experimental research, 59-92 as the source of the term.